RWDT XII - 12 Step program to get Right.

[Senkaku]

boringgggg, find better bait (also I assume this was prompted by a pride parade or smthn? )

I can say I live where such would result in a firebombing if it occurred.

Perhaps it's time to go find those "militant gay activists" or whatever that the far right is always complaining about and get ready for the most ~fabulous~ convoy in military history, then!

Over 300 000 children were stolen during Franco`s rule in Spain. Now, Franco is in my worst dictator list.

Counterpoint: he beat the commies.

If we're doing point/counterpoint, then Jane, you ignorant slut, he lived long enough to see himself become the villain, rather than dying a hero.

Read "La voz dormida" btw, excellent novel about post-Civil War Spain (though it's in Spanish so that will scare off 99% of the people in this thread probably lol)

you sound like a new yorker lol
Yes you can, the US govt does it all the time :^)


boringgggg, find better bait (also I assume this was prompted by a pride parade or smthn? )


Probably an unpopular opinion: the only things in space worth the military's money are spy satellites and GPS, and whatever systems are required to protect them

Orbital bombardment and all that shit can kiss my ass, we already have nukes and stealth bombers and all that jazz if we need it

Defending those assets was my thought tbh.

And we don't need frickin Star Destroyers to do that with (although I will not complain very loudly if we do decide to build some anyways because how cool would it be omg)

[Genivaria]

Not exaggerations, more like wrong place and time.[…]

They really are exaggerations. Especially when considering the Inquisition was kinder than the secular courts.

[…]Central Europe during the Protestant Reformation[…]

Some examples?

[…]not Salem, Massachusetts.

The Inquisition had no part in the Salem witch trails, nor any witch trial I can find, the Church denounced witchcraft.

Ah I was referring to the witch trials as a whole honestly.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

They really are exaggerations. Especially when considering the Inquisition was kinder than the secular courts.



Some examples?



The Inquisition had no part in the Salem witch trails, nor any witch trial I can find, the Church denounced witchcraft.

Ah I was referring to the witch trials as a whole honestly.

Ah, well that’s a Protestant thing tbh. The Church has been denouncing the idea of witchcraft for ages.

[The South Falls]

Ah I was referring to the witch trials as a whole honestly.

Ah, well that’s a Protestant thing tbh. The Church has been denouncing the idea of witchcraft for ages.

Would it tick you off if I mentioned the tortures that went with the inquisition?

[Genivaria]

Ah I was referring to the witch trials as a whole honestly.

Ah, well that’s a Protestant thing tbh. The Church has been denouncing the idea of witchcraft for ages.

Not really, many of those killed were sentenced to burn by Catholics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier_witch_trials

The persecutions started in the diocese of Trier in 1581 and reached the city itself in 1587, where it was to lead to the death of about 368 people, and was as such perhaps the biggest mass execution in Europe in peace time

In 1581, Johann von Schönenberg was appointed archbishop of the independent diocese of Trier. Schönenberg greatly admired the order of the Jesuits in which he was "wonderfully addicted"; he built them a college, and as a part of his efforts to demonstrate his convictions, he ordered the purging of three groups in society; first he rooted out the Protestants, then the Jews, and then the witches: three stereotypes of nonconformity. He was the one responsible for the massacres of Trier which, because of his initiative, support and patronage, became "of an importance quite unique in the history of witchcraft".

Also the Malleus Maleficarum was written by a member of the Catholic Church.

[Senkaku]

By the way TEM, now that His Sacred and Imperial Majesty has fully seized the throne, when are you going to claim your Khedivate?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Sorry for the wait, I had sone things to take care of.

Would it tick you off if I mentioned the tortures that went with the inquisition?

Nah, practically every judicial system during the time utilised torture.

Not really, many of those killed were sentenced to burn by Catholics.[…]

The massacres of Tier are only one example. It’s also worth mentioning that Protestants were notably more active. Although, having gone over my sources, the activity was most likely due to the tensions of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation.

I also learnt something new, apparently Pope Innocent VIII issued the papal bull Summis desiderantes (5 December 1484), which supported Kramer's investigations against magicians and witches, which I have to admit, I did not know.

[…]Also the Malleus Maleficarum was written by a member of the Catholic Church.

The top theologians of the Inquisition at the Faculty of Cologne condemned the book as recommending unethical and illegal procedures, as well as being inconsistent with Catholic doctrines of demonology. That said, it was supported by the Pope of the time, which is strange considering the Churches history in regards to the idea of witchcraft.

[Genivaria]

Sorry for the wait, I had sone things to take care of.

Would it tick you off if I mentioned the tortures that went with the inquisition?

Nah, practically every judicial system during the time utilised torture.

Not really, many of those killed were sentenced to burn by Catholics.[…]

The massacres of Tier are only one example. It’s also worth mentioning that Protestants were notably more active. Although, having gone over my sources, the activity was most likely due to the tensions of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation.

I also learnt something new, apparently Pope Innocent VIII issued the papal bull Summis desiderantes (5 December 1484), which supported Kramer's investigations against magicians and witches, which I have to admit, I did not know.

[…]Also the Malleus Maleficarum was written by a member of the Catholic Church.

The top theologians of the Inquisition at the Faculty of Cologne condemned the book as recommending unethical and illegal procedures, as well as being inconsistent with Catholic doctrines of demonology. That said, it was supported by the Pope of the time, which is strange considering the Churches history in regards to the idea of witchcraft.

All true but it doesn't dispute what I said.

[Reikoku]

Sometimes I think that Elizabeth Förster-Nietzsche is the Dinkleberg of Nietzsche enthusiasts, a scapegoat and whipping horse to blame just about everything on.

[Mladorossiya]

Sometimes I think that Elizabeth Förster-Nietzsche is the Dinkleberg of Nietzsche enthusiasts, a scapegoat and whipping horse to blame just about everything on.

Isn't she the Nazi sister or something?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Sorry for the wait, I had sone things to take care of.



Nah, practically every judicial system during the time utilised torture.



The massacres of Tier are only one example. It’s also worth mentioning that Protestants were notably more active. Although, having gone over my sources, the activity was most likely due to the tensions of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation.

I also learnt something new, apparently Pope Innocent VIII issued the papal bull Summis desiderantes (5 December 1484), which supported Kramer's investigations against magicians and witches, which I have to admit, I did not know.



The top theologians of the Inquisition at the Faculty of Cologne condemned the book as recommending unethical and illegal procedures, as well as being inconsistent with Catholic doctrines of demonology. That said, it was supported by the Pope of the time, which is strange considering the Churches history in regards to the idea of witchcraft.

All true but it doesn't dispute what I said.

I kind of just combined what I was saying before I left and what I was saying once I got back, in order to focus on something else I decided to just post it, so it’s a bit of a mess. I’ll just concede, there isn’t anything that I really dispute (after having read over some stuff on the matter).

[Reikoku]

Sometimes I think that Elizabeth Förster-Nietzsche is the Dinkleberg of Nietzsche enthusiasts, a scapegoat and whipping horse to blame just about everything on.

Isn't she the Nazi sister or something?

No, that was a myth which has been uncritically repeated for a couple of decades.

[Mladorossiya]

No, that was a myth which has been uncritically repeated for a couple of decades.

Where did it even come from?

[Reikoku]

No, that was a myth which has been uncritically repeated for a couple of decades.

Where did it even come from?

A lot of reasons, but the most common is that she married a prominent Anti-Semite when her brother was still alive, much to his chagrin, and later would become friendly with Adolf Hitler who showered her archive of her brother's writings with favors.

[Herskerstad]

Ah I was referring to the witch trials as a whole honestly.

Ah, well that’s a Protestant thing tbh. The Church has been denouncing the idea of witchcraft for ages.

Pft, if we are to just gently sweep under the rug the Catholic witch trials or inquisitions, sure.

[Fahran]

This is a great article, The Heresy of Equality (here published as How Equality is Misleading), by the great M.E. Bradford

http://www.theimaginativeconservative.o ... jaffa.html

Take a look if you get the chance, TEM, I think you would like it

Interesting, and from a generally excellent source. I'll analyze it at length later.

[Fahran]

Perhaps it's time to go find those "militant gay activists" or whatever that the far right is always complaining about and get ready for the most ~fabulous~ convoy in military history, then!

Is this an advertisement for the Navy?

Ooh, or the Sacred Band of Thebes?

Pft, if we are to just gently sweep under the rug the Catholic witch trials or inquisitions, sure.

Hold on, Hersk! I've got an academic source.

By the way TEM, now that His Sacred and Imperial Majesty has fully seized the throne, when are you going to claim your Khedivate?

Honestly, I hope the sultan gives TEM Albania. TEM and Albania deserve one another.

[Conserative Morality]

Where did it even come from?

A lot of reasons, but the most common is that she married a prominent Anti-Semite when her brother was still alive, much to his chagrin, and later would become friendly with Adolf Hitler who showered her archive of her brother's writings with favors.

"She's not a Nazi, she was just very friendly with Adolf Hitler!"

Forgive me for not finding the distinction meaningful.

[Reikoku]

A lot of reasons, but the most common is that she married a prominent Anti-Semite when her brother was still alive, much to his chagrin, and later would become friendly with Adolf Hitler who showered her archive of her brother's writings with favors.

"She's not a Nazi, she was just very friendly with Adolf Hitler!"

Forgive me for not finding the distinction meaningful.

It is an extremely meaningful distinction, being friendly with someone doesn't mean you share their ideology. You might as well say that Churchill and Roosevelt were fascists due to being sympathetic to Mussolini.

[Herskerstad]

Pft, if we are to just gently sweep under the rug the Catholic witch trials or inquisitions, sure.

Hold on, Hersk! I've got an academic source.

This in no way states that witch hunts were exclusively protestant, it outright admits that the most violent ones in Germany were under the Catholic princes. Witch-hunting long predates Luther and often held some subsidiary role in either secular or religious courts.

[Conserative Morality]

It is an extremely meaningful distinction, being friendly with someone doesn't mean you share their ideology. You might as well say that Churchill and Roosevelt were fascists due to being sympathetic to Mussolini.

I would say they both certainly weren't very far off.

[Fahran]

This in no way states that witch hunts were exclusively protestant, it outright admits that the most violent ones in Germany were under the Catholic princes. Witch-hunting long predates Luther and often held some subsidiary role in either secular or religious courts.

I'm aware. I wasn't jumping on my Anti-Reformation soapbox. I merely wanted to add a bit more nuance to the conversation. Witch hunts appear to have been prevalent in areas where sectarianism and religious heterogeneity were rife. They were largely emblematic of the intolerance, belligerence, and hysteria that predominated the early modern period in Europe and the Americas.

[Reikoku]

It is an extremely meaningful distinction, being friendly with someone doesn't mean you share their ideology. You might as well say that Churchill and Roosevelt were fascists due to being sympathetic to Mussolini.

I would say they both certainly weren't very far off.

They were quite far apart from Fascism, but that's besides the point. Förster-Nietzsche was a conservative who hated the Weimar Republic, but was certainly not a Nazi, condemning Anti-Semitism in letters and expressing hope that Hitler would have the good sense to abandon it. Her main goal was always to popularize her brother's writings, and turning down the attention of a world leader would've been completely detrimental to that goal.

[Conserative Morality]

They were quite far apart from Fascism, but that's besides the point. Förster-Nietzsche was a conservative who hated the Weimar Republic, but was certainly not a Nazi, condemning Anti-Semitism in letters and expressing hope that Hitler would have the good sense to abandon it. Her main goal was always to popularize her brother's writings, and turning down the attention of a world leader would've been completely detrimental to that goal.

>> locking people up in camps for immutable qualities and advocating gassing them
>> suppressing dissent and ignoring rule of law
>> not fascist

lol

While it has been known to Nietzsche scholars that Förster-Nietzsche meddled with her brother's work, particular after his death, the new encyclopedia – consisting of entries by about 150 scholars – shows the sheer breadth and depth of her forgeries as never before.

Niemeyer, a psychologist and Nietzsche expert from Dresden University, scoured through Nietzsche's letters to catalogue the extent of the falsifications.

Of the collection of 505 of her brother's letters that Förster-Nietzsche published in 1909, just 60 were the original versions and 32 of them were entirely made up, he claims.

She had used a "long list of dirty tricks" to hide Nietzsche's loathing for the leading anti-Semite Theodor Fritsch in letters he wrote in 1887, Niemeyer said.

At the same time, she fabricated remarks that made Nietzsche appear to endorse the views of the French philosopher Arthur de Gobineau, who advocated the racial superiority of "Aryan" people.

In her edition of the famous book, The Will to Power, Förster-Nietzsche included only 270 of the 374 aphorisms her brother wrote – and most of them were incorrect.

She cut out the maxim in which her brother condemned anti-Semitism with the words: "Have nothing to do with a person who takes part in the dishonest race swindle."

Niemeyer also discovered that in her edition of Beyond Good and Evil, Förster-Nietzsche removed the sentence: "The anti-Semites cannot forgive the Jews for the fact that they have 'spirit'."

[Reikoku]

lol

If Förster-Nietzsche had been trying to make her brother look like an Anti-Semite, then why did she unequivocally state that he was not?

My brother was never an Anti-Semite, in addition, he was never completely convinced that Germany should be placed above everything; he always recognized that the Jews had done a great service for the intellectual movements in Germany, especially at the beginning of the century.

There were actually instances in Nietzsche's life where it would have been easy to construe him as Anti-Semitic, even one of his close friends (Franz Overbeck) regarded him as Anti-Semitic to some degree. But his sister always insisted that this was due to Wagner's influence at the time, rather than what Nietzsche himself actually believed. What she wrote in personal correspondence also doesn't make her sound like an Anti-Semite.

Only the persecutions of the Jews that Minister Goebbels is wrenched from our excellent Chancellor seems to me a bad blunder and is very unpleasant for me. I am certain that it has not been pleasant for our splendid Chancellor Adolf Hitler, and that he will do everything to ameliorate this mistake of his fellow party members.