Mass killer becomes incel hero

[Des-Bal]

I won't. It's one thing to have grown up to become like that. It's another to purposely pass it on.

Only if you presume that I am so horrible another thing like me ought not to exist. I think it's important to feel your feelings, to process them, and to understand them in a logical way but I don't think expression particularly public is important or desirable. The person you are in a moment of intense emotion is almost certainly not the version of yourself you want to be forward facing. Boys don't cry may be facile but "be your best you on your worst day" crystallizes many of the same elements and is, I'd argue, a fine standard.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

And that is very sad. That you feel that your emotions should be muted out of how you were raised. You are a victim of the system in that way.

Everyone has a tale of sorrow. I do well in hospitals, I do well at police stations, I got hit by a car walking to work and I put in overtime. I'm very capable and that capability is directly tied to the fact that my reactions to gifts are less than stellar.

I don't doubt you're a capable individual. But it's still sad that you were raised that way. There's no harm in showing emotions.

[Saiwania]

Canada so far as I can tell, has that retarded: "Legal to sell sex, illegal to buy sex" standard. Either all sex work should be legal or all of it should be illegal. You can't logically have it both ways.

[Ostroeuropa]

Of course it is. If you cry in a traditional household as a boy, your father will tell you to stop. If you cry as a boy on a playground, the boys will bully you. Women do ofc enforce the norms because society dictates that this is what a man is supposed to be, but it's toxic masculintiy that's causing it.

I think that what Ostro objects is that it's called ''toxic masculinity''. When in reality is just toxicity in general. We do it to men, we do it to women. You have no idea how many times my choice not to have children when I'm in my late 30s has been seen as bad and selfish by other women, and other men. My desire to focus on career and my partner only have been seen as meek and very un-feminine by other women I know. Or as mean by some men. I dare say it's the same thing men go through when they're told that ''men don't cry'', ''only girls cry'', ''man up'', etc.

Exactly, I don't think it keeps the focus where it belongs to call it toxic mas/fem, especially as that raises the notion of there being functional and healthy forms of both, which is dubious compared to just being a healthy well adjusted person.

It distracts the focus away from perpetrators toward victims and is a form of victim blaming, even if it suggests that they should be restructured to be more healthy, it doesn't put the focus on the people making other people ill.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I think that what Ostro objects is that it's called ''toxic masculinity''. When in reality is just toxicity in general. We do it to men, we do it to women. You have no idea how many times my choice not to have children when I'm in my late 30s has been seen as bad and selfish by other women, and other men. My desire to focus on career and my partner only have been seen as meek and very un-feminine by other women I know. Or as mean by some men. I dare say it's the same thing men go through when they're told that ''men don't cry'', ''only girls cry'', ''man up'', etc.

Exactly, I don't think it keeps the focus where it belongs to call it toxic mas/fem, especially as that raises the notion of there being functional and healthy forms of both, which is dubious compared to just being a healthy well adjusted person.

It distracts the focus away from perpetrators toward victims and is a form of victim blaming, even if it suggests that they should be restructured to be more healthy, it doesn't put the focus on the people making other people ill.

I agree. Toxicity is not healthy in any way. There aren't healthy levels of it.

[Des-Bal]

I don't doubt you're a capable individual. But it's still sad that you were raised that way. There's no harm in showing emotions.

There's no harm in showing emotions:

Your expression of uncertainty causes a mugger to pick up on the fact you aren't local or likely to fight back and target you.

Your big broad smile leads the other party in a negotiation to realize you aren't being as put out by the terms they're offering as you suggest.

On the witness stand you express anger at a mischaracterization of events and in closing opposing counsel says "you saw how irrational they were in the box"

These are not harms?

[Petrasylvania]

Canada so far as I can tell, has that retarded: "Legal to sell sex, illegal to buy sex" standard. Either all sex work should be legal or all of it should be illegal. You can't logically have it both ways.

The Nordic Model, which presumes women can't control themselves so the best way to crack down on prostitution is to punish the demand end of the chain.

[Reformed Houn]

Of course it is. If you cry in a traditional household as a boy, your father will tell you to stop. If you cry as a boy on a playground, the boys will bully you. Women do ofc enforce the norms because society dictates that this is what a man is supposed to be, but it's toxic masculintiy that's causing it.

This is a narrative gynocentric feminism has asserted because of the prejudice of its founders, it is not based in fact, it is merely asserted dogmatically based on an anti-male framework. Study and evidence shows this isn't the case.
Men are lax about enforcing norms around other men.
Women enforce them everywhere.
When you mix the groups, men start enforcing them.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5711000321

Feminists made these generalizations? Every single one? Sorry if I have a hard time believing that.
Yeah, like I said they get looser. It's just sillying around with the bois. Women face loads more enforcement about what it means to be a woman still, though the women's movement unlike the men's realised long ago that they should combat this.

Yes you've shown me this before and that's what I gathered from it. Men get looser, women tend to stay stressful about their surrounding.

[Albrenia]

The whole 'legal to sell, illegal to buy' shit is moronic, in my opinion.

[Saiwania]

You have no idea how many times my choice not to have children when I'm in my late 30s has been seen as bad and selfish by other women, and other men. My desire to focus on career and my partner only have been seen as meek and very un-feminine by other women I know. Or as mean by some men. I dare say it's the same thing men go through when they're told that ''men don't cry'', ''only girls cry'', ''man up'', etc.

It is primarily because realistically speaking, it'll be too late for you to have children when you're in your early to late 40s. Menopause is right around the corner and time stops for no woman. It is them hinting to you that it is "now or never." It probably won't get a good reaction if you in some way, have failed to complete or do your gendered role.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You have no idea how many times my choice not to have children when I'm in my late 30s has been seen as bad and selfish by other women, and other men. My desire to focus on career and my partner only have been seen as meek and very un-feminine by other women I know. Or as mean by some men. I dare say it's the same thing men go through when they're told that ''men don't cry'', ''only girls cry'', ''man up'', etc.

It is primarily because realistically speaking, it'll be too late for you to have children when you're in your early to late 40s. Menopause is right around the corner and time stops for no woman. It is them hinting to you that it is "now or never." It probably won't get a good reaction if you in some way, have failed to complete or do your gendered role.

Not really. I have been hearing the same spiel since I turned 18. It's this idea that, from where I'm from, women should want to be moms. If you deviate from that, you're an oddity. Apply it to men. A man that shows emotions is seen as defective. That's bullshit.

[Reformed Houn]

Canada so far as I can tell, has that retarded: "Legal to sell sex, illegal to buy sex" standard. Either all sex work should be legal or all of it should be illegal. You can't logically have it both ways.

The Nordic Model, which presumes women can't control themselves so the best way to crack down on prostitution is to punish the demand end of the chain.

Yeah. I think prostitutes should just beat up their pimps collectively. Arm prostitutes.

[New Emeline]

anyways, we're all probably in agreement that strict gender roles are harmful and should probably go away

[Ostroeuropa]

This is a narrative gynocentric feminism has asserted because of the prejudice of its founders, it is not based in fact, it is merely asserted dogmatically based on an anti-male framework. Study and evidence shows this isn't the case.
Men are lax about enforcing norms around other men.
Women enforce them everywhere.
When you mix the groups, men start enforcing them.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5711000321

Feminists made these generalizations? Every single one? Sorry if I have a hard time believing that.
Yeah, like I said they get looser. It's just sillying around with the bois. Women face loads more enforcement about what it means to be a woman still, though the women's movement unlike the men's realised long ago that they should combat this.

Yes you've shown me this before and that's what I gathered from it. Men get looser, women tend to stay stressful about their surrounding.

I specified gynocentric feminists. That they appear to have been the principal founders of the movement and massively influenced almost all of its discourse doesn't change things.

Then on what basis do you call it toxic masculinity. Are you suggesting men only behave like men around women? Ridiculous. It's a nonsensical view of the situation.

[Albrenia]

anyways, we're all probably in agreement that strict gender roles are harmful and should probably go away

I'm down with that. Although the 'classical liberal' types will no doubt take issue.

[Petrasylvania]

The whole 'legal to sell, illegal to buy' shit is moronic, in my opinion.

It also puts sex workers at the mercy of the few willing to obtain their services.

[Saiwania]

There probably still is a place for gendered roles to exist. It was and probably still will be, crucial to the continued success of our species.

[New Emeline]

anyways, we're all probably in agreement that strict gender roles are harmful and should probably go away

I'm down with that. Although the 'classical liberal' types will no doubt take issue.

Why?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

There probably still is a place for gendered roles to exist. It was and probably still will be, crucial to the continued success of our species.

What we need to understand is that gender roles are there for those who feel they want them. They're not something everyone has to subscribe to. They're not a requirement. No one should be subjected to them.

[Ostroeuropa]

It is primarily because realistically speaking, it'll be too late for you to have children when you're in your early to late 40s. Menopause is right around the corner and time stops for no woman. It is them hinting to you that it is "now or never." It probably won't get a good reaction if you in some way, have failed to complete or do your gendered role.

Not really. I have been hearing the same spiel since I turned 18. It's this idea that, from where I'm from, women should want to be moms. If you deviate from that, you're an oddity. Apply it to men. A man that shows emotions is seen as defective. That's bullshit.

It sucks you have to put up with this. It's a significant life decision and the notion of someones couple of sentences changing your mind is ridiculous, the only context it makes sense in is if there's a normalized and concerted effort to wear you down, and it's without consideration for the child in the end as well. Unwanted children and such.

If someone wants kids, they'll have them if they're able.

Do you ever fuck with people on the topic? I'd be tempted to go "You're five words have changed my decades old conviction!"

[Albrenia]

I'm down with that. Although the 'classical liberal' types will no doubt take issue.

Why?

Because it'll be 'PC gone mad' or 'white genocide destroying our culture' and so on.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I would like to take this back to the incel community. What do you feel can be done to improve your situation?

[Reformed Houn]

Feminists made these generalizations? Every single one? Sorry if I have a hard time believing that.
Yeah, like I said they get looser. It's just sillying around with the bois. Women face loads more enforcement about what it means to be a woman still, though the women's movement unlike the men's realised long ago that they should combat this.

Yes you've shown me this before and that's what I gathered from it. Men get looser, women tend to stay stressful about their surrounding.

I specified gynocentric feminists. That they appear to have been the principal founders of the movement and massively influenced almost all of its discourse doesn't change things.

Then on what basis do you call it toxic masculinity. Are you suggesting men only behave like men around women? Ridiculous. It's a nonsensical view of the situation.

Well, the terminology atleast. Feminists today rarely cite them for a good reason. They were deeply flawed and extremely selfish.

I'm suggesting it's poisoning masculinity on the basis of "masculinity" as seen by contemporary cultures. Men should behave like whatever the fuck they want to. Men behave like what society has decreed them to be around women because of societal and cultural pressures on men to act that way.

[New Emeline]

Why?

Because it'll be 'PC gone mad' or 'white genocide destroying our culture' and so on.

hmmmmm

[Reformed Houn]

I would like to take this back to the incel community. What do you feel can be done to improve your situation?

Instead of taking down their reddit for the Nth time, schedule therapists.