Mass killer becomes incel hero

[United Muscovite Nations]

Does Lukas T. Walton look like someone who needs to be married in order to earn a lot of money? No, he does not. He inherited his billions from being born into the family which founded Walmart. He does as he wants for the most part, but isn't currently married to my knowledge.

There are cases of single people who buck the trend, and can still do well for themselves.

One issue I see, and you can take it or leave it as I am a woman talking from a woman's perspective, is that marriage/girlfriend/partner/fuckpartner/whatever seems to be a metric many impose on their idea of success. That's really, IMO, one of the big problems. For a man or a woman to be successful or happy, marriage or romantic relationships don't need to be present. It's nice to have a partner, and if that's what you're striving for because it is what makes you feel happy or whole, by all means, strive for it. But we should not be measuring success or happiness merely on the ability or desire to have a partner.

Meaning can be found in many ways other than sex.

That's part of the issue though. Incels wouldn't act out or go mad if they weren't lonely; speaking from personal experience.

[The Blaatschapen]

The biases people have are real, but I'd think that the employer thinking that he is married, surely isn't the only reason? If they weren't capable of performing the job which they were applying for, then of course they're going to pass you over.

That boss probably subconsciously thinks- "Oh, you're single and don't need to support a family? Then I guess I don't need to pay you as much, being that you're only supporting yourself, hmm?..."

The day someone does an article like this about the male/female wage gap will be a cold day in hell, but observations within are relevant

This translates into a substantial marriage premium for men. On average, young married men, aged 28-30, make $15,900 more than their single peers, and married men aged 44-46 make $18,800 more than their single peers.

That’s even after controlling for differences in education, race, ethnicity, regional unemployment, and scores on a test of general knowledge. What’s more: the marriage premium operates for black, Hispanic, and less-educated men in much the same way as it does for men in general.

For instance, men with a high-school degree or less make at least $17,000 more than their single peers.

....

And yet the research suggests at least part of the marriage premium is causal: one study showed gains at work when men are married compared to when the same men were not married and another study of twins found that married twins earned 26 percent more than their identical twins who were not married.

Some worry that what we’re really saying is that it is wives’ job to make their men better. But the reality is much more complex.

The wage gap between married men and single men might actually be larger than the one between men and women. More specifically:

4. Employers like married men with children. There is evidence that employers prefer and promote men who are married with children, especially compared to their childless male peers and to mothers. Married men are often seen as more responsible and dedicated workers and are rewarded with more opportunities by employers. While illegal bias and long-held stereotypes appear to play a role in this historic preference, it nonetheless helps explain why married family men get paid more.

Employers prefer you have a woman's approval.

How does the causality go? Will "a woman's approval" make one more successful in society? Or is it more likely to get "a woman's approval" when one is successful in society?

[Internationalist Bastard]

And I, as a woman and a whore, agree
Sex does. It equat to happiness

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Could you maybe expand, please?

Sex does not
I’m on my phone allow me to edit

[Ostroeuropa]

Never said the word unfair. Just pointed out that suddenly having a little more in common with the Nazis the moment you see a man you don't like might say something about societies influence on you.

Jews circumcise children, normally. You don't catch me suddenly going on about their genes. Ideas are ideas.

I recall Nazis taking a more direct approach to eugenics, unless you're equivocating males with twisted views on women not getting laid to selective breeding and sterilization now.

Just noting the typical tropes of dehumanization seem present in your analysis and evaluation of these people you dislike for dehumanizing others.

One issue I see, and you can take it or leave it as I am a woman talking from a woman's perspective, is that marriage/girlfriend/partner/fuckpartner/whatever seems to be a metric many impose on their idea of success. That's really, IMO, one of the big problems. For a man or a woman to be successful or happy, marriage or romantic relationships don't need to be present. It's nice to have a partner, and if that's what you're striving for because it is what makes you feel happy or whole, by all means, strive for it. But we should not be measuring success or happiness merely on the ability or desire to have a partner.

Meaning can be found in many ways other than sex.

And I, as a woman and a whore, agree
Sex does. It equat to happiness

The issue here seems to me that merely asserting and affirming the positive version of this principle doesn't do much for combating the myriad of negative enforcements of the norm and the vilification of single males and such.
While well adjusted people can cling to the positive example and use it to overcome the pressures of the negative examples, the most marginalized and insecure will not be able to, and the negative will come to dominate their perception of the situation.

Similar to the ban bossy campaign, think about "Ban loser" as a notion.

[Ostroeuropa]

The biases people have are real, but I'd think that the employer thinking that he is married, surely isn't the only reason? If they weren't capable of performing the job which they were applying for, then of course they're going to pass you over.

That boss probably subconsciously thinks- "Oh, you're single and don't need to support a family? Then I guess I don't need to pay you as much, being that you're only supporting yourself, hmm?..."

The day someone does an article like this about the male/female wage gap will be a cold day in hell, but observations within are relevant

This translates into a substantial marriage premium for men. On average, young married men, aged 28-30, make $15,900 more than their single peers, and married men aged 44-46 make $18,800 more than their single peers.

That’s even after controlling for differences in education, race, ethnicity, regional unemployment, and scores on a test of general knowledge. What’s more: the marriage premium operates for black, Hispanic, and less-educated men in much the same way as it does for men in general.

For instance, men with a high-school degree or less make at least $17,000 more than their single peers.

....

And yet the research suggests at least part of the marriage premium is causal: one study showed gains at work when men are married compared to when the same men were not married and another study of twins found that married twins earned 26 percent more than their identical twins who were not married.

Some worry that what we’re really saying is that it is wives’ job to make their men better. But the reality is much more complex.

The wage gap between married men and single men might actually be larger than the one between men and women. More specifically:

4. Employers like married men with children. There is evidence that employers prefer and promote men who are married with children, especially compared to their childless male peers and to mothers. Married men are often seen as more responsible and dedicated workers and are rewarded with more opportunities by employers. While illegal bias and long-held stereotypes appear to play a role in this historic preference, it nonetheless helps explain why married family men get paid more.

Employers prefer you have a woman's approval.

Additionally it's worth noting that the wages men receive upon getting a womans approval are expected to be shared with the woman, and are not actually meant exclusively for themselves.
The notion that men are "Paid more" is ridiculous for a number of reasons, this being one of them.

As usual, the gynocentric presentation of a "Womens issue" is superficial at best, and closer analysis reveals a multitude of factors relating to misandry and discrimination against men.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

One issue I see, and you can take it or leave it as I am a woman talking from a woman's perspective, is that marriage/girlfriend/partner/fuckpartner/whatever seems to be a metric many impose on their idea of success. That's really, IMO, one of the big problems. For a man or a woman to be successful or happy, marriage or romantic relationships don't need to be present. It's nice to have a partner, and if that's what you're striving for because it is what makes you feel happy or whole, by all means, strive for it. But we should not be measuring success or happiness merely on the ability or desire to have a partner.

Meaning can be found in many ways other than sex.

That's part of the issue though. Incels wouldn't act out or go mad if they weren't lonely; speaking from personal experience.

I understand that loneliness can truly be devastating to some people. I don't agree with people acting crazy out of it, but I know it can wreak havoc.

In absence of a romantic partner, what other meaningful relationships can an incel foment to aid him on fighting the loneliness? Is that an option? Because I assure you, you don't need validation from anyone to be considered a man. Or a person. Or a human being worthy of affection.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Could you maybe expand, please?

Sex does not
I’m on my phone allow me to edit

Ah, ok. I just got confused.

[United Muscovite Nations]

That's part of the issue though. Incels wouldn't act out or go mad if they weren't lonely; speaking from personal experience.

I understand that loneliness can truly be devastating to some people. I don't agree with people acting crazy out of it, but I know it can wreak havoc.

In absence of a romantic partner, what other meaningful relationships can an incel foment to aid him on fighting the loneliness? Is that an option? Because I assure you, you don't need validation from anyone to be considered a man. Or a person. Or a human being worthy of affection.

This is where I significantly disagree with Gallo and Ostro. I don't think it's about society telling men they need women, I think that the vast majority of incels and robots want a long-term romantic partner not because they don't feel like a man but because they have an innate desire for romantic affection.

I would say family relationships do the best to stave it off, but those are only temporary for many people and eventually it will get to the point where it doesn't soften the blow very much.

[Galloism]

That's after controlling for those differences.

Does Lukas T. Walton look like someone who needs to be married in order to earn a lot of money? No, he does not. He inherited his billions from being born into the family which founded Walmart. He does as he wants for the most part, but isn't currently married to my knowledge.

There are cases of single people who buck the trend, and can still do well for themselves.

Yes, there are trend buckers. That does not dispute the trend.

Just because John got shot 16 times and survived doesn't mean getting shot 16 times is often a survivable experience.

[Internationalist Bastard]

The day someone does an article like this about the male/female wage gap will be a cold day in hell, but observations within are relevant



The wage gap between married men and single men might actually be larger than the one between men and women. More specifically:



Employers prefer you have a woman's approval.

Additionally it's worth noting that the wages men receive upon getting a womans approval are expected to be shared with the woman, and are not actually meant exclusively for themselves.
The notion that men are "Paid more" is ridiculous for a number of reasons, this being one of them.

As usual, the gynocentric presentation of a "Womens issue" is superficial at best, and closer analysis reveals a multitude of factors relating to misandry and discrimination against men.

Very true
However I am, to use their terms, a Stacy. A woman who has fucked many many dudes
And here I am, with my husband who’s a crippled, geeky computer guy who was a virgin. So I guienly believe that these men deserve to be treated better and that ones sexual or Hell even romantic should not determine a mans manliness

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I understand that loneliness can truly be devastating to some people. I don't agree with people acting crazy out of it, but I know it can wreak havoc.

In absence of a romantic partner, what other meaningful relationships can an incel foment to aid him on fighting the loneliness? Is that an option? Because I assure you, you don't need validation from anyone to be considered a man. Or a person. Or a human being worthy of affection.

This is where I significantly disagree with Gallo and Ostro. I don't think it's about society telling men they need women, I think that the vast majority of incels and robots want a long-term romantic partner not because they don't feel like a man but because they have an innate desire for romantic affection.

I would say family relationships do the best to stave it off, but those are only temporary for many people and eventually it will get to the point where it doesn't soften the blow very much.

I'll consider this but allow me to ask you a question: what can incels do, for those who truly want a romantic relationship or romantic affection, to get said affection? Because you see, the Toronto incident garners no sympathy from society, or a desire to understand how to help. What do you think can be done to aid?

[Ostroeuropa]

I understand that loneliness can truly be devastating to some people. I don't agree with people acting crazy out of it, but I know it can wreak havoc.

In absence of a romantic partner, what other meaningful relationships can an incel foment to aid him on fighting the loneliness? Is that an option? Because I assure you, you don't need validation from anyone to be considered a man. Or a person. Or a human being worthy of affection.

This is where I significantly disagree with Gallo and Ostro. I don't think it's about society telling men they need women, I think that the vast majority of incels and robots want a long-term romantic partner not because they don't feel like a man but because they have an innate desire for romantic affection.

I would say family relationships do the best to stave it off, but those are only temporary for many people and eventually it will get to the point where it doesn't soften the blow very much.

I'm prepared to concede that in many cases there may be innate desires in that direction, however, the social vilification seems to me to be the reason for the violent backlash, or at the very least, one of the factors we can actually influence to reduce cases.

[Reformed Houn]

If I meet an incel I'm gonna punch the ghosts out of their head and have a 67 hour-long conversation about their problems.

[United Muscovite Nations]

This is where I significantly disagree with Gallo and Ostro. I don't think it's about society telling men they need women, I think that the vast majority of incels and robots want a long-term romantic partner not because they don't feel like a man but because they have an innate desire for romantic affection.

I would say family relationships do the best to stave it off, but those are only temporary for many people and eventually it will get to the point where it doesn't soften the blow very much.

I'll consider this but allow me to ask you a question: what can incels do, for those who truly want a romantic relationship or romantic affection, to get said affection? Because you see, the Toronto incident garners no sympathy from society, or a desire to understand how to help. What do you think can be done to aid?

I don't know. I think we'd have to significantly change how public sexuality works.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I'll consider this but allow me to ask you a question: what can incels do, for those who truly want a romantic relationship or romantic affection, to get said affection? Because you see, the Toronto incident garners no sympathy from society, or a desire to understand how to help. What do you think can be done to aid?

I don't know. I think we'd have to significantly change how public sexuality works.

How so?

[Reformed Houn]

I'll consider this but allow me to ask you a question: what can incels do, for those who truly want a romantic relationship or romantic affection, to get said affection? Because you see, the Toronto incident garners no sympathy from society, or a desire to understand how to help. What do you think can be done to aid?

I don't know. I think we'd have to significantly change how public sexuality works.

Don't support generalized views of masculinity or what manliness is. They repress people and their emotions, and lead them down shitty paths.

[The Blaatschapen]

This is where I significantly disagree with Gallo and Ostro. I don't think it's about society telling men they need women, I think that the vast majority of incels and robots want a long-term romantic partner not because they don't feel like a man but because they have an innate desire for romantic affection.

I would say family relationships do the best to stave it off, but those are only temporary for many people and eventually it will get to the point where it doesn't soften the blow very much.

I'll consider this but allow me to ask you a question: what can incels do, for those who truly want a romantic relationship or romantic affection, to get said affection? Because you see, the Toronto incident garners no sympathy from society, or a desire to understand how to help. What do you think can be done to aid?

Well, prostitution is legal here. So you can get an escort and pay for the girlfriend experience.

So set up a fund to help lonely men afford that

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'll consider this but allow me to ask you a question: what can incels do, for those who truly want a romantic relationship or romantic affection, to get said affection? Because you see, the Toronto incident garners no sympathy from society, or a desire to understand how to help. What do you think can be done to aid?

I don't know. I think we'd have to significantly change how public sexuality works.

Full disclosure: I'm a feminist, I have been trying for days to stop my flight or fight reflex regarding this incident. What I have seen has been very toxic, however, if I give into this feeling, I won't be able to at least give it a try in understanding from where you're coming from. Help me to understand. What sort of changes do you propose we should engage in regarding public sexuality?

[Ostroeuropa]

Additionally it's worth noting that the wages men receive upon getting a womans approval are expected to be shared with the woman, and are not actually meant exclusively for themselves.
The notion that men are "Paid more" is ridiculous for a number of reasons, this being one of them.

As usual, the gynocentric presentation of a "Womens issue" is superficial at best, and closer analysis reveals a multitude of factors relating to misandry and discrimination against men.

Very true
However I am, to use their terms, a Stacy. A woman who hasn’t fucked many many dudes
And here I am, with my husband who’s a crippled, geeky computer guy who was a virgin. So I guienly believe that these men deserve to be treated better and that ones sexual or Hell even romantic should not determine a mans manliness

You've always struck me as fine on these issues, for the most part, but i'm fairly hardline.

The "AWALT" (All women are like that) and "Unicorn" stuff comes from intellectual laziness and a refusal to go back to the drawing board to re-evaluate an ideological framework that they feel mostly explains their experience, and a lack of concern for womens experience being included in their narrative, the ideology and narrative they use describes their view of the world, but they conflate this with fact too often, perhaps confronting them directly on this difference could pry loose concessions of that. By dismissing each individual case of a woman who doesn't fit their narrative in sequence and forgetting about it, it's only ever one person and one person is hardly a reason to change an entire ideological framework.

The lack of concern for womens experience being included in their narrative could be a backlash and reaction to gynocentrism in society and a fear, not entirely unfounded, that included womens experience/perspective will necessarily lead to the entire thing becoming solely based around womens experiences, perspectives, desires, etc.

Also important is that the women who claim to be different may not often be a large part of their lives they see frequently, so their experience is "Womens sometimes assert in ways that i see no evidence of that they are different.".

Understanding their statements as a description of their overall experience while understanding they may be ignoring or discounting outliers to their personal lives helps.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don't know. I think we'd have to significantly change how public sexuality works.

How so?

Sexual liberalization has made it much harder for people who struggle socially to get romantically involved. The premise that more sex means everyone is having more emotionally-meaningful sex is just plain not true. People who, in past generations, would have been set up with someone at church or something now just fall through the cracks.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don't know. I think we'd have to significantly change how public sexuality works.

Full disclosure: I'm a feminist, I have been trying for days to stop my flight or fight reflex regarding this incident. What I have seen has been very toxic, however, if I give into this feeling, I won't be able to at least give it a try in understanding from where you're coming from. Help me to understand. What sort of changes do you propose we should engage in regarding public sexuality?

Not having a culture that flaunts sex everywhere and makes it extremely visible while also restrictive to certain people. Liberalization of sexuality has made it more inaccessible, rather than less.

[Reformed Houn]

How so?

Sexual liberalization has made it much harder for people who struggle socially to get romantically involved. The premise that more sex means everyone is having more emotionally-meaningful sex is just plain not true. People who, in past generations, would have been set up with someone at church or something now just fall through the cracks.

It's also made it a fuckton easier for abused people to get rid of bad relationships. Rejecting it's importance is outright ludicrous. Not having the charisma to talk properly doesn't mean society failed, it's that you're in a group you're not comfortable in, hence why many relationships nowadays form over the internet.

[The Blaatschapen]

I don't know. I think we'd have to significantly change how public sexuality works.

Full disclosure: I'm a feminist, I have been trying for days to stop my flight or fight reflex regarding this incident. What I have seen has been very toxic, however, if I give into this feeling, I won't be able to at least give it a try in understanding from where you're coming from. Help me to understand. What sort of changes do you propose we should engage in regarding public sexuality?

Kill toxic masculinity. Kill it.

Every time a parent says "don't cry, be a big boy! " to their son, shame them.

Seriously we, as a gender, are trained from a young age to repress most of our feelings. Except anger.

Start there, Sexuality will follow.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sexual liberalization has made it much harder for people who struggle socially to get romantically involved. The premise that more sex means everyone is having more emotionally-meaningful sex is just plain not true. People who, in past generations, would have been set up with someone at church or something now just fall through the cracks.

It's also made it a fuckton easier for abused people to get rid of bad relationships. Rejecting it's importance is outright ludicrous.

I'm not saying we have to get rid of it entirely, but we need some kind of synthesis. Social institutions that provided ways to meet people and form relationships for thousands of years were totally erased in the past hundred, and so far there has been little attempt to replace them.

[Ostroeuropa]

Sexual liberalization has made it much harder for people who struggle socially to get romantically involved. The premise that more sex means everyone is having more emotionally-meaningful sex is just plain not true. People who, in past generations, would have been set up with someone at church or something now just fall through the cracks.

It's also made it a fuckton easier for abused people to get rid of bad relationships. Rejecting it's importance is outright ludicrous.

There's a difference between a culture of monogamy sometimes serialized in nature, and a culture of casual sex. Though with respect to alternative relationship set ups, given there is a participant in the thread, those should also be tolerated.

The normalization of casual sex and exaltation of that above other set ups is the problem.