Mass killer becomes incel hero

[Ifreann]

Can everyone just imagine how much his Drill Instructor must've chewed him out for being too different and "abnormal" compared to the rest of the men in his barracks? Course, maybe Canada's military is way softer than the US. No idea if their officers are up to R. Lee Ermey's standards or not.

If only there were more fictional representations of Canada's army set 50-70 years ago.

[Albrenia]

Can everyone just imagine how much his Drill Instructor must've chewed him out for being too different and "abnormal" compared to the rest of the men in his barracks? Course, maybe Canada's military is way softer than the US. No idea if their officers are up to R. Lee Ermey's standards or not.

I imagine meowing through the halls and biting fellow soldiers is frowned upon, even Oop North.

[Fartsniffage]

Can everyone just imagine how much his Drill Instructor must've chewed him out for being too different and "abnormal" compared to the rest of the men in his barracks? Course, maybe Canada's military is way softer than the US. No idea if their officers are up to R. Lee Ermey's standards or not.

I imagine meowing through the halls and biting fellow soldiers is frowned upon, even Oop North.

It makes a perfect candidate for the US Marines.....

[New Emeline]

and now we're back to a classic "who's fault is this" game

[Costa Fierro]

and now we're back to a classic "who's fault is this" game

The causes of this are right in front of people but they won't acknowledge them because introspection into their own beliefs regarding attitudes towards men, relationships and sex is scary.

[Fartsniffage]

and now we're back to a classic "who's fault is this" game

The causes of this are right in front of people but they won't acknowledge them because introspection into their own beliefs regarding attitudes towards men, relationships and sex is scary.

You're right. We used to lock lunatics like this in asylums, now we let them run around in the community.

[New Emeline]

The causes of this are right in front of people but they won't acknowledge them because introspection into their own beliefs regarding attitudes towards men, relationships and sex is scary.

You're right. We used to lock lunatics like this in asylums, now we let them run around in the community.

i wouldn't exactly start advocating for the return of asylums mate

[Liriena]

No, you just hate men.

This, but seriously.

HuffPo sometimes is good. They aren't Jacobin, of course, but it could be worse.

And they aren't wrong. The incel ideology is extremely misogynistic. We could and should also talk about the other social, cultural and economic factors at play in the incel ideology, but we can't really paper over the fact that the incel ideology endangers women as much as it endangers men, if not more.

The incel ideology isn't apolitical, and we could consider this sort of incel violence terroristic.

They demand we "Get serious" about online misogyny and call it a danger to women in the same article they pull this:

That digital ecosystem includes “men’s rights activists”

Your positive portrayal of them for this article is therefore pretty revealing.

I actually missed that part. My reading was pretty laser-guided on the "terrorism" aspect and I skimmed past much of it. So... yeah, you assign malice to what was just incompetence on my part.

[Liriena]

You're right. We used to lock lunatics like this in asylums, now we let them run around in the community.

i wouldn't exactly start advocating for the return of asylums mate

Yeah.

I don't disagree with the idea that our empathy towards people who are driven into the arms of the incel ideology shouldn't paper over the fact that many of them are horrible, malicious people who hurt others... but calling for the return of a mental healthcare system that was even worse than the one we have today is bad.

[Liriena]

and now we're back to a classic "who's fault is this" game

The causes of this are right in front of people but they won't acknowledge them because introspection into their own beliefs regarding attitudes towards men, relationships and sex is scary.

no u

[New Emeline]

The causes of this are right in front of people but they won't acknowledge them because introspection into their own beliefs regarding attitudes towards men, relationships and sex is scary.

no u

ur mom ga-
wait wrong thread

[Fartsniffage]

You're right. We used to lock lunatics like this in asylums, now we let them run around in the community.

i wouldn't exactly start advocating for the return of asylums mate

This is a topic for another thread, but you might want to look at your opinion on that.

[New Emeline]

i wouldn't exactly start advocating for the return of asylums mate

This is a topic for another thread, but you might want to look at your opinion on that.

oh I already know my opinion on people being forced to undergo damaging and traumatizing "treatments" because their families or society deemed them to be "unwell"

[Liriena]

HuffPo sometimes is good. They aren't Jacobin, of course, but it could be worse.

And they aren't wrong. The incel ideology is extremely misogynistic. We could and should also talk about the other social, cultural and economic factors at play in the incel ideology, but we can't really paper over the fact that the incel ideology endangers women as much as it endangers men, if not more.

The incel ideology isn't apolitical, and we could consider this sort of incel violence terroristic.

I'd make a response to this but Ostro already made an argument for me, so I'll just concur with him.

However I'd like to point out the interesting moral panic we're experiencing regarding men and masculinity, and the narrative of this panic is being dominated by groups and by media outlets that are going out of their way to portray all men as dangerous, mentally unstable misogynists.

I love the projection at play here. Mainstream media starts paying attention to an extremely awful ideology that now has blood on its hands, and you interpret it as a witch hunt against all men.

[Fartsniffage]

This is a topic for another thread, but you might want to look at your opinion on that.

oh I already know my opinion on people being forced to undergo damaging and traumatizing "treatments" because their families or society deemed them to be "unwell"

And the 70's was 50 years ago. These days people with mental health issues get to just die on the streets.

[New Emeline]

oh I already know my opinion on people being forced to undergo damaging and traumatizing "treatments" because their families or society deemed them to be "unwell"

And the 70's was 50 years ago. These days people with mental health issues get to just die on the streets.

And I never said that was good
Just that asylums are also not good

[Fartsniffage]

And the 70's was 50 years ago. These days people with mental health issues get to just die on the streets.

And I never said that was good
Just that asylums are also not good

Were not good. Things have changed.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'd make a response to this but Ostro already made an argument for me, so I'll just concur with him.

However I'd like to point out the interesting moral panic we're experiencing regarding men and masculinity, and the narrative of this panic is being dominated by groups and by media outlets that are going out of their way to portray all men as dangerous, mentally unstable misogynists.

I love the projection at play here. Mainstream media starts paying attention to an extremely awful ideology that now has blood on its hands, and you interpret it as a witch hunt against all men.

When the mainstream media conflates that ideology with what seems like all mens activism that isn't gynocentrist and in service of womens supremacy?
Yeah. Yeah dude.
That is a witch hunt against all men, and you don't seem to want to acknowledge it.

Jim Crow era paper shrieks and screams about a black rapist and says his cohorts are the civil rights movement and such.
You come along and say "That's a good article." because your ethics are in hoc to a supremacist movement and you don't want to examine that.

Nobody is projecting here. We're acknowledging the medias flaws and subsequently yours for supporting them.

Wanna know who is projecting?
Feminists who conflate criticism of feminism with an attack on all women because they can't handle the notion of womens activism /=/ feminism.

The attack on all men?
Seems to actually be real in terms of media treatment. All mens movements are conflated.

Where's the mainstream egalitarian criticism of feminism in the media? It isn't there, because it's conflated for an attack on all women.

Know what the difference would be?
If media kept saying ANY form of women organizing in their own interests, no matter the movement, was bigoted and hated men and conflated all of them as equivalent.

The projection here is not from our side.

[Saiwania]

Mental asylums were actually very good. The only main downside was that when it existed, too many people got sent to those places arbitrarily and with less due process. Today's situation is too much in the opposite direction. Even the most unwell person can only be held for 2 days before being let go, on the streets they become a general nuisance to themselves and others.

[Ifreann]

I'd make a response to this but Ostro already made an argument for me, so I'll just concur with him.

However I'd like to point out the interesting moral panic we're experiencing regarding men and masculinity, and the narrative of this panic is being dominated by groups and by media outlets that are going out of their way to portray all men as dangerous, mentally unstable misogynists.

I love the projection at play here. Mainstream media starts paying attention to an extremely awful ideology that now has blood on its hands, and you interpret it as a witch hunt against all men.

Remember when Muslims ran over people just walking down the street and not one single person said that it wasn't terrorism, they're just lashing out at society, and besides, society had it coming.

Weird to want those threads back.

[Liriena]

I love the projection at play here. Mainstream media starts paying attention to an extremely awful ideology that now has blood on its hands, and you interpret it as a witch hunt against all men.

When the mainstream media conflates that ideology with what seems like all mens activism that isn't gynocentrist and in service of womens supremacy?
Yeah. Yeah dude.
That is a witch hunt against all men, and you don't seem to want to acknowledge it.

I don't assign malice to what may well be incompetence. Not a lot of people are in gender politics enough to know or even bother to check the nuances of different movements within every vague umbrella. When was the last time you saw mainstream media acknowledge the distinction between separatist feminism, anarcho-feminism and liberal feminism? It's annoying that incels are being placed directly under the umbrella of MRAs as if the two were essentially rooted in the same ideas, but I'm not conspirational about it.

[Costa Fierro]

You're right. We used to lock lunatics like this in asylums, now we let them run around in the community.

They're not lunatics. They're people. If we stopped dehumanising others, we'd actually make a lot of progress in doing something to address these problems than simply just viewing them as perpetrators of their own social isolation.

I love the projection at play here. Mainstream media starts paying attention to an extremely awful ideology that now has blood on its hands, and you interpret it as a witch hunt against all men.

Because it is.

[Ostroeuropa]

When the mainstream media conflates that ideology with what seems like all mens activism that isn't gynocentrist and in service of womens supremacy?
Yeah. Yeah dude.
That is a witch hunt against all men, and you don't seem to want to acknowledge it.

I don't assign malice to what may well be incompetence. Not a lot of people are in gender politics enough to know or even bother to check the nuances of different movements within every vague umbrella. When was the last time you saw mainstream media acknowledge the distinction between separatist feminism, anarcho-feminism and liberal feminism? It's annoying that incels are being placed directly under the umbrella of MRAs as if the two were essentially rooted in the same ideas, but I'm not conspirational about it.

It is malice to talk about the MRM in this way without even a superficial amount of research.
Acknowledging differences within feminism would undercut the absolute blank cheque in terms of moral capital the media provides representatives of the movement. The treatment of the two are not equivalent. Both skew towards benefiting women.

You're ignoring that we've called you out for supporting what appears to be a witch hunt against men.

"It's just ignorance that they think literally everyone with warts is a magic wielding satanist, not malice."

...
Still a witch hunt dude, don't support these people.

[Fartsniffage]

They're not lunatics. They're people. If we stopped dehumanising others, we'd actually make a lot of progress in doing something to address these problems than simply just viewing them as perpetrators of their own social isolation.

A person who kills 10 people and injures 16 more and then begs the police to shoot them is a lunatic.

If he'd asked for help before doing that then I'd have a huge amount of sympathy for him, he didn't.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Mental asylums were actually very good. The only main downside was that when it existed, too many people got sent to those places arbitrarily and with less due process. Today's situation is too much in the opposite direction. Even the most unwell person can only be held for 2 days before being let go, on the streets they become a general nuisance to themselves and others.

We do certainly need more mental asylums, but we also need more specialized facilities like halfway homes for people with severe mental illness or severe social dysfunction to be reintegrated into society.