Britain to cut off life support of infant Alfie Evans soon

[Auralia]

Well, then Mr. Evans wouldn't get to pay a Vatican hospital thousands of euros to---

oh.

The hospital is offering to provide care for free.

[Imperializt Russia]

Is it humane to cut life support for someone who is only technically alive? In my opinion, Absolutely.
Should the government do it? In my opinion, No.
In my opinion, the government shouldn't interfere with personal issues like keeping your son on life support.

My own decision would be to do what the government is doing. His brain is water and proteins and he should be put to rest. It's a waste of money and resources to keep him "alive".

The hospital made the decision, the parents disagreed, they have essentially arbitrated in the criminal courts and the court sided with the hospital and their medical expertise.

The state has not "ordered Alfie's death", it isn't "performing the execution".

[Auralia]

Is it humane to cut life support for someone who is only technically alive? In my opinion, Absolutely.
Should the government do it? In my opinion, No.
In my opinion, the government shouldn't interfere with personal issues like keeping your son on life support.

My own decision would be to do what the government is doing. His brain is water and proteins and he should be put to rest. It's a waste of money and resources to keep him "alive".

The hospital made the decision, the parents disagreed, they have essentially arbitrated in the criminal courts and the court sided with the hospital and their medical expertise.

The state has not "ordered Alfie's death", it isn't "performing the execution".

The state is not simply refusing to provide adequate care -- it is also prohibiting Alfie's transport to another jurisdiction to receive such care.

[Ifreann]

Well, then Mr. Evans wouldn't get to pay a Vatican hospital thousands of euros to---

oh.

The hospital is offering to provide care for free.

Socialised medicine!

[Auralia]

For reference:

After Pope Francis met with Thomas Evans, Alfies father, the Vatican’s Secretary of State communicated to Dr Mariella Enoc the Pope’s desire that she to do everything possible to bring Alfie to the Rome-based Bambino Gesu pediactric hospital.

Dr Enoc says that the medical staff of Bambino Gesu has been in close contact since last July with the hospital in Liverpool where the 23-month old is currently hospitalized with a rare degenerative brain disease.

After meeting with Alfie’s father on Wednesday, Dr Enoc was struck by his determination to do everything possible to help his son.

In a letter she wrote to the Pope, Dr Enoc expresses her great esteem for the doctors and staff caring for Alfie in Alder Hey Children's Hospital in Liverpool.

What is not being proposed, she says, is to cure Alfie, since his condition is not curable, but to care for him.

Possible treatment could include basic hydration, and a tracheotomy to help him breathe. In addition, it might be possible to identify his illness.

Dr Enoc emphasized that all costs of transport and treatment would be covered by the Bambino Gesu hospital.

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-c ... -enoc.html

[Ifreann]

The hospital made the decision, the parents disagreed, they have essentially arbitrated in the criminal courts and the court sided with the hospital and their medical expertise.

The state has not "ordered Alfie's death", it isn't "performing the execution".

The state is not simply refusing to provide adequate care -- it is also prohibiting Alfie's transport to another jurisdiction to receive such care.

The NHS is providing adequate care.

[Skylus]

The hospital is offering to provide care for free.

Socialised medicine!

The care will not be "free". They're "wasting resources that can be used to help other people" on a kid that he NO CHANCE of surviving this or waking up again.
I know the parents are grieving but this has gone too far. I think all the fame has gone to their heads.
This whole thing is messed up, man.

[The New California Republic]

The state is not simply refusing to provide adequate care -- it is also prohibiting Alfie's transport to another jurisdiction to receive such care.

The NHS is providing adequate care.

Exactly. I don't see what other care can be provided. It's not as if the Vatican is holding some magic brain-reconstructing cure in their vaults or anything.

[Auralia]

The NHS is providing adequate care.

I think it's clear that we disagree about what constitutes adequate care. I hold that providing food, water, and oxygen -- so long as it can be metabolized by the patient -- is always obligatory, and refusal to provide such is tantamount to euthanasia. You clearly do not.

[Lavan Tiri]

The hospital made the decision, the parents disagreed, they have essentially arbitrated in the criminal courts and the court sided with the hospital and their medical expertise.

The state has not "ordered Alfie's death", it isn't "performing the execution".

The state is not simply refusing to provide adequate care -- it is also prohibiting Alfie's transport to another jurisdiction to receive such care.

Can he really be properly cared for now? His brain is fucking gone--what chance at living anything resembling a life does he have? Let the poor baby go in peace. If my kid or my baby brother were so far gone that they had no chance of having a life outside a hospital room, no chance of ever being conscious, I'd want their plug pulled. It's cruel to keep the kid alive anymore, because he isn't living in anything besides a technical sense.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

Listen I can understand the debate over abortion but this child is already dead. Cease life support and let the parents take the corpse to Italy if they want. RIP alphie.

[Lavan Tiri]

Donate his body to science.
Therefore whatever this disease is (was) can somehow be studied (if it can even be studied at this point)
I bet it's something like his own body eating itself or something.
Actually that sounds horrifying.
But that might be what it is. Maybe.
I'm no medical expert, I'm still in High School.

Honestly, this is probably the best thing to do. If doctors can figure out what happened to Alfie, they can maybe find a way to prevent it from happening to someone else.

[The New California Republic]

The state is not simply refusing to provide adequate care -- it is also prohibiting Alfie's transport to another jurisdiction to receive such care.

Can he really be properly cared for now? His brain is fucking gone--what chance at living anything resembling a life does he have? Let the poor baby go in peace. If my kid or my baby brother were so far gone that they had no chance of having a life outside a hospital room, no chance of ever being conscious, I'd want their plug pulled. It's cruel to keep the kid alive anymore, because he isn't living in anything besides a technical sense.

He is "technically" still alive, but in the sense that if I cut off my arm and pipe oxygenated blood in and deoxygenated blood out of the dismembered arm. There is no consciousness there, no ability to act or function.

[British Empire]

Interesting that the father's gone from stabbing a 14 year old (who was then saved by Alder Hey) to accusing the hospital of murder and using "thou shalt not kill" as an argument in court.

[The New California Republic]

Interesting that the father's gone from stabbing a 14 year old (who was then saved by Alder Hey) to accusing the hospital of murder and using "thou shalt not kill" as an argument in court.

Source?

[Thermodolia]

The NHS is providing adequate care.

Exactly. I don't see what other care can be provided. It's not as if the Vatican is holding some magic brain-reconstructing cure in their vaults or anything.

Well they might. Those papists might be hiding all sorts of goodies up in there

[Thermodolia]

Interesting that the father's gone from stabbing a 14 year old (who was then saved by Alder Hey) to accusing the hospital of murder and using "thou shalt not kill" as an argument in court.

Source?

You’re not going to get one because it doesn’t exist

[Ifreann]

The NHS is providing adequate care.

I think it's clear that we disagree about what constitutes adequate care. I hold that providing food, water, and oxygen -- so long as it can be metabolized by the patient -- is always obligatory, and refusal to provide such is tantamount to euthanasia. You clearly do not.

I don't think that adequate care entails keeping patients alive when they are suffering and there is no possibility of recovery or treatment. In fact, keeping someone alive and in pain until their body finally and utterly fails sounds ghoulish. We shouldn't value the biological processes of life above a person's comfort and dignity.

[Thermodolia]

The NHS is providing adequate care.

I think it's clear that we disagree about what constitutes adequate care. I hold that providing food, water, and oxygen -- so long as it can be metabolized by the patient -- is always obligatory, and refusal to provide such is tantamount to euthanasia. You clearly do not.

Except he cannot eat or drink. There’s no brain functions.

[Imperializt Russia]

The NHS is providing adequate care.

I think it's clear that we disagree about what constitutes adequate care. I hold that providing food, water, and oxygen -- so long as it can be metabolized by the patient -- is always obligatory, and refusal to provide such is tantamount to euthanasia. You clearly do not.

The court has basically ruled that keeping him alive is cruel at this point, siding with the medical opinion of doctors.

So yes, yes it is.

[MERIZoC]

Who gives a fuck?

I swear, British press is inundated with meaningless news stories.

[British Empire]

Source?

You’re not going to get one because it doesn’t exist

Obviously not the newspaper article, because I can't be bothered to dig through the Echo.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbjGBcqX4AAI0vt.jpg
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=uk
https://twitter.com/caseydegeir/status/ ... 7885413376
https://twitter.com/shgkes/status/988483425848918016
https://twitter.com/UCantDoxMe/status/9 ... 6627267585

[Kramanica]

The state is not simply refusing to provide adequate care -- it is also prohibiting Alfie's transport to another jurisdiction to receive such care.

The NHS is providing adequate care.

Well, I mean, if they're letting him die I'm not sure if that qualifies as "adequate".

Right now they're currently providing him with no care except a bed to die in.

[Auralia]

Right now they're currently providing him with no care except a bed to die in.

They "reluctantly gave in to continued requests and provided some hydration and oxygen support" once he didn't die like he was supposed to.

[Kramanica]

Right now they're currently providing him with no care except a bed to die in.

They "reluctantly gave in to continued requests and provided some hydration and oxygen support" once he didn't die like he was supposed to.

Wow, they gave him a little bit of water?

Fuck, man. No other hospital does that.