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The General Car Thread - The Facelift.

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:10 am

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Freezic Vast
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Postby Freezic Vast » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:08 am


That is some of the worst car-related news I've heard all year long.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:57 am

Freezic Vast wrote:

That is some of the worst car-related news I've heard all year long.

I never cared about Ford sedans, mostly because everybody buys the wagons here. And they all belong to people who don't care about cars and drive them into the ground in less than 20 years from production date.

It's going to be a change from near-mundane cars with lower roofs to near-mundane cars with higher roofs.

Even if crossovers usually have softer suspensions, I find it refreshing in an era when they'll soon start testing baby buggies on Nurburgring.
Last edited by Petrolheadia on Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:44 am


This is a big mistake especially if gas prices soar liked they did in 2008, I can see them withdrawing the Fiesta from the USDM and killing of the cramped Taurus, but killing the Fusion? No, that will be a mistake they will regret. So they will keep a rugged Focus hatch and the Mustang. The crossover trend is a bit frustrating to enthusiasts, though it's not like economy sedans were sporty, but still can be chucked around unlike a crossover SUV. Americans won't buy small cars unless they have lift kit, apparently. I still vow to never drive a crossover SUV ever, at least I can have the dang Mustang. Still I wish there was no import ban so I could get a grey market Mondeo, or just stick with panther bodies until they become no longer viable as a daily, which hopefully won't happen.

I hope it won't affect Lincoln, I like the MKZ and Continental, the MKZ with a 400hp 3.0 ecoboost V6. is quick and it looks more stylish than any Audi or BMW.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:01 am

Gas is almost back to $4 a gallon in LA.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:18 am

Auzkhia wrote:

Still I wish there was no import ban so I could get a grey market Mondeo

It's a goddamn Fusion, but slower.

Also, Ford's SUV-centric approach was not the problem - it was the low-profit-margin business model. In fact, if your company works like that, you have to make more expensive products (e.g. crossovers instead of sedans) to have enough cash.
Last edited by Petrolheadia on Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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If you can't get a convertible, run really fast down a highway with wind in your hair and people shouting "You're crazy!". - Kenny Loggins,
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:21 am

Petrolheadia wrote:
Auzkhia wrote:Still I wish there was no import ban so I could get a grey market Mondeo

It's a goddamn Fusion, but slower.

But in the first TOCA Touring Car Challenge game for Playstation once you got the hang of the game the only way to make it even slightly hard was to use the Mondeo. Then if you f'd up the first three races they'd axe you for underperforming even though your teammate finished last in all three.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:26 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:It's a goddamn Fusion, but slower.

But in the first TOCA Touring Car Challenge game for Playstation once you got the hang of the game the only way to make it even slightly hard was to use the Mondeo. Then if you f'd up the first three races they'd axe you for underperforming even though your teammate finished last in all three.

And that was the fast one.


A typical Mondeo here in Poland is the Mk3 Wagon.
Usually 131 HP stock, and actually a bit less with the lack of mainteinance they get.
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We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS!
Male, gearhead, classic rock fan, gamer, agnostic, centre-libertarian.
Where you can talk about cars!
If you can't get a convertible, run really fast down a highway with wind in your hair and people shouting "You're crazy!". - Kenny Loggins,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Soviet Spud Land
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Soviet Spud Land » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:34 am

Auzkhia wrote:
Soviet Spud Land wrote:Apparently, Jeep is going stop production of the Wrangler JK this week. Plus, Audi had some recalls for coolant pump problems

There's a new Jeep Wrangler, haven't you heard?

Tragic, though Audis can be a bit fussy sometimes.



I know they are making new ones, but stopping production of the version before

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:46 am

Soviet Spud Land wrote:
Auzkhia wrote:There's a new Jeep Wrangler, haven't you heard?

Tragic, though Audis can be a bit fussy sometimes.



I know they are making new ones, but stopping production of the version before

As long as they're not making the headlights square I think people will roll with it.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:52 am

Petrolheadia wrote:
Auzkhia wrote:Still I wish there was no import ban so I could get a grey market Mondeo

It's a goddamn Fusion, but slower.

Also, Ford's SUV-centric approach was not the problem - it was the low-profit-margin business model. In fact, if your company works like that, you have to make more expensive products (e.g. crossovers instead of sedans) to have enough cash.

Only if I really needed for a midsize sedan from Ford for some reason. Or even the wagon version, because I'm that weirdo.
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Luxury sedans are at least expensive enough for that, and probably better, as someone who only owned used luxury sedans, but it's the spirit of that move that bothers me, I can't do much about it, unless I were wealthy. The USDM can be very disappointing sometimes, I wish a company would let me special order models from other countries, even if there was a tariff, I'd still be nice to have more choice rather than accepting a compromise. But I will be a part of the problem.

Money? If I had the money I'd buy new but I can't afford it at all, I wish it were no concern.
Cannot think of a name wrote:Gas is almost back to $4 a gallon in LA.

Gasoline has passed the $3/gallon threshold in parts of Pennsylvania, especially if you use midgrade or premium. Though is sacrificing 3 mpgs worth it, who knows? Some people take it, I know I took a fuel economy decrease.

Though if Ford has to bring back the Fiesta due to soaring fuel prices, we'll have a big laugh as Jim Hackett gets canned.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:59 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Soviet Spud Land wrote:

I know they are making new ones, but stopping production of the version before

As long as they're not making the headlights square I think people will roll with it.

Been there done that
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Soviet Spud Land
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Postby Soviet Spud Land » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:31 am

By the way, my opinions on Tesla are a mixed bag. Their cars are all right, but seriously? Sending cars into space is literally the stupidest thing I have hear during in a long time. One upside though, their screens are nice. 6-10
Last edited by Soviet Spud Land on Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Soviet Spud Land
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Postby Soviet Spud Land » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:33 am

Auzkhia wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:As long as they're not making the headlights square I think people will roll with it.

Been there done that


Yeah you're right, square headlights are just ugly. The Renegade is a good example of this.

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Soviet Spud Land
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Postby Soviet Spud Land » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:36 am

And to start another brand discussion. What I said you guys' opinion on Mini's and BMW? I reallly like both o fthesencompanies. Their cars are great, and the tech I see outstanding.

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:39 am

Soviet Spud Land wrote:By the way, my opinions on Tesla are a mixed bag. Their cars are all right, but seriously? Sending cars into space is literally the stupidest thing I have hear during in a long time. One upside though, their screens are nice. 6-10

The rocket launch was a test of a brand new heavy payload rocket. As such, being a test, there was a chance that it didn't work.

For the test they needed a payload that no one would care if it was lost. You're not going to send must have supplies up in a rocket you haven't tested, you're not going to send a unique and expensive satellite. You're going to send something you can do without to see if it makes it.

So they sent the owner's car.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:49 am

Soviet Spud Land wrote:And to start another brand discussion. What I said you guys' opinion on Mini's and BMW? I reallly like both o fthesencompanies. Their cars are great, and the tech I see outstanding.

I hate BMW's throttle pedal, there such a pain. Source: my parents have a relatively new, but used, 2013 BMW X5 it has the lag, they traded in a 2006 Audi A6 wagon for it. BMW should know better, plus BMWs look kinda bland, they're nice, but not good enough for my own tastes. I find Mercedes Benz, Lincoln, Cadillac, and Volvo to have more panache and flair. BMWs don't really speak to me, I like the E30 and old 7 series, but that's just automotive nostalgia from my childhood, though even then those cars were a bit old, I was born in the late 90s, so the 2000s were my childhood. When millennial car enthusiasts buy classic, they buy from the 80s and 90s, because those decades were their childhoods. I can see why people love BMWs, they're ok I guess. I liked the Z3 and Z4 roadsters, maybe I might buy one of those, I can see that.

Minis look neat, but I heard they aren't really that well made, maybe some quality issues have been fixed, but I don't know. I don't see too much of them around, they're kinda niche. I saw plenty in Europe though, but the small hatch is king there, especially when you live in a medieval city. Some autocross people have them, but again, those are a nice group.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:51 pm

Any one have a car they 'discovered' through video games. Not necessarily a car you've never heard of, but developed a fondness for because it got you through on an addition of Forza or GT.

I have two, one more likely than the other. The first GT I lost my memory card and had to start over. Having already made it pretty far I was rushing through the game. Which means I was taking trophy cars and leapfrogging through the challenges. At one point I acquired an unassuming WRX wagon. That wagon was fine against other cars in its class and I had gotten used to the way it cornered and liked the all wheel drive, so I kept modifying it. Soon it was in races against Camaros and Mustangs and Vipers and Corvettes. I had a strict 'no racing tires until the race modification' rule for no reason so it was drifting widely through the turns with the engined tuned past the tires. Still was winning because it was a video game. Started saying things like "Wave to my dog as I pass you!" and "OUTTA THE WAY! I bought ice cream at the store and it's a hot day!" Then I race modified it and it took me through three of the four core series in the original GT. I think I got it by winning the first in a Miata.

The second is my '67 Cougar XR7 from I think GT 2 or 3. For some reason I just kept obsessively dialing that bastard in until it actually handled well and I could stomp on the gas without losing the rear end entirely. It was painted a cool dark blue that the computer tells me was purple and I thought it looked pimp as hell in the replays.

So every once in a while I see an early WRX wagon or old Cougar and think I might be interested then remind myself that it won't be the video game car and I certainly won't be able to drive it the way I did.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:57 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:Any one have a car they 'discovered' through video games. Not necessarily a car you've never heard of, but developed a fondness for because it got you through on an addition of Forza or GT.

I have two, one more likely than the other. The first GT I lost my memory card and had to start over. Having already made it pretty far I was rushing through the game. Which means I was taking trophy cars and leapfrogging through the challenges. At one point I acquired an unassuming WRX wagon. That wagon was fine against other cars in its class and I had gotten used to the way it cornered and liked the all wheel drive, so I kept modifying it. Soon it was in races against Camaros and Mustangs and Vipers and Corvettes. I had a strict 'no racing tires until the race modification' rule for no reason so it was drifting widely through the turns with the engined tuned past the tires. Still was winning because it was a video game. Started saying things like "Wave to my dog as I pass you!" and "OUTTA THE WAY! I bought ice cream at the store and it's a hot day!" Then I race modified it and it took me through three of the four core series in the original GT. I think I got it by winning the first in a Miata.

The second is my '67 Cougar XR7 from I think GT 2 or 3. For some reason I just kept obsessively dialing that bastard in until it actually handled well and I could stomp on the gas without losing the rear end entirely. It was painted a cool dark blue that the computer tells me was purple and I thought it looked pimp as hell in the replays.

So every once in a while I see an early WRX wagon or old Cougar and think I might be interested then remind myself that it won't be the video game car and I certainly won't be able to drive it the way I did.

Renault Clio V6 from Need for Speed undercover. When I got it in the game, it was an upgrade from a 60s Camaro I used. It's really fun but the handling is fairly realistic, it suffers from a pendulum effect like real rear-mid engined cars, so props to the developers. Though a Porsche Cayman had better handling in that game, but I found that a Mustang GT was a lot more stable. The only realism was handling behavior.
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Postby NeoOasis » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:42 pm

Soviet Spud Land wrote:And to start another brand discussion. What I said you guys' opinion on Mini's and BMW? I reallly like both o fthesencompanies. Their cars are great, and the tech I see outstanding.


Not a fan of them. I might be alone in this, but I found BMW's shifter to be extremely notchy and clunky, and the clutch was one of the worst I had driven. In every every metric, a Honda's manual is better. Engine was a gem though, can't go wrong with their inline sixes, but the rest leaves a lot to be desired. And apparently the newer generations of the 3 series have only gotten softer and heavier.

Nah, not a fan at all. Mini just kinda seems like a meme car. Paying extra for British quirkiness, and German repair bills. They look nice, but I've never actually wanted to own one.

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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:50 pm

2018 Focus in end production in May, but there is a replacement for that, Taurus end in 2019 but Fusion sticks around a little longer.

Taurus is dead basically, and looks like the Fusion is like the old Taurus, it sticks around for the fleet sales. History doesn't always repeat itself but certain rhymes.
Last edited by Auzkhia on Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aillyria
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Postby Aillyria » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:28 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:Any one have a car they 'discovered' through video games. Not necessarily a car you've never heard of, but developed a fondness for because it got you through on an addition of Forza or GT.

I have two, one more likely than the other. The first GT I lost my memory card and had to start over. Having already made it pretty far I was rushing through the game. Which means I was taking trophy cars and leapfrogging through the challenges. At one point I acquired an unassuming WRX wagon. That wagon was fine against other cars in its class and I had gotten used to the way it cornered and liked the all wheel drive, so I kept modifying it. Soon it was in races against Camaros and Mustangs and Vipers and Corvettes. I had a strict 'no racing tires until the race modification' rule for no reason so it was drifting widely through the turns with the engined tuned past the tires. Still was winning because it was a video game. Started saying things like "Wave to my dog as I pass you!" and "OUTTA THE WAY! I bought ice cream at the store and it's a hot day!" Then I race modified it and it took me through three of the four core series in the original GT. I think I got it by winning the first in a Miata.

The second is my '67 Cougar XR7 from I think GT 2 or 3. For some reason I just kept obsessively dialing that bastard in until it actually handled well and I could stomp on the gas without losing the rear end entirely. It was painted a cool dark blue that the computer tells me was purple and I thought it looked pimp as hell in the replays.

So every once in a while I see an early WRX wagon or old Cougar and think I might be interested then remind myself that it won't be the video game car and I certainly won't be able to drive it the way I did.

The Lotus Elan, I've had one on every GT it has been in and always in the exact same blue. I adore that car it's so goddamn fun to tune and race. Same with the MG F/TF.
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Freezic Vast
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Postby Freezic Vast » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:37 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:Any one have a car they 'discovered' through video games. Not necessarily a car you've never heard of, but developed a fondness for because it got you through on an addition of Forza or GT.

I have two, one more likely than the other. The first GT I lost my memory card and had to start over. Having already made it pretty far I was rushing through the game. Which means I was taking trophy cars and leapfrogging through the challenges. At one point I acquired an unassuming WRX wagon. That wagon was fine against other cars in its class and I had gotten used to the way it cornered and liked the all wheel drive, so I kept modifying it. Soon it was in races against Camaros and Mustangs and Vipers and Corvettes. I had a strict 'no racing tires until the race modification' rule for no reason so it was drifting widely through the turns with the engined tuned past the tires. Still was winning because it was a video game. Started saying things like "Wave to my dog as I pass you!" and "OUTTA THE WAY! I bought ice cream at the store and it's a hot day!" Then I race modified it and it took me through three of the four core series in the original GT. I think I got it by winning the first in a Miata.

The second is my '67 Cougar XR7 from I think GT 2 or 3. For some reason I just kept obsessively dialing that bastard in until it actually handled well and I could stomp on the gas without losing the rear end entirely. It was painted a cool dark blue that the computer tells me was purple and I thought it looked pimp as hell in the replays.

So every once in a while I see an early WRX wagon or old Cougar and think I might be interested then remind myself that it won't be the video game car and I certainly won't be able to drive it the way I did.

BMW M3 GTR from GT4 and NFSMW, and for a while I thought the Beamers were the best cars in the world when I was a kid playing games like that. However, then I discovered faster and better looking cars like the Aston Martin DB9 being the coolest car ever made, the Koenigsegg CCX and CCXR, the best Swedish cars made since the Volvo XC90, and pretty much every sports car made by Mercedes, especially the Mercedes-McLaren they made. I do still love a lot of Beamers, and I still say the M3 is one of if not the best BMW they've ever made.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:52 pm

Auzkhia wrote:This is a big mistake especially if gas prices soar liked they did in 2008, I can see them withdrawing the Fiesta from the USDM and killing of the cramped Taurus, but killing the Fusion? No, that will be a mistake they will regret. So they will keep a rugged Focus hatch and the Mustang. The crossover trend is a bit frustrating to enthusiasts, though it's not like economy sedans were sporty, but still can be chucked around unlike a crossover SUV. Americans won't buy small cars unless they have lift kit, apparently. I still vow to never drive a crossover SUV ever, at least I can have the dang Mustang. Still I wish there was no import ban so I could get a grey market Mondeo, or just stick with panther bodies until they become no longer viable as a daily, which hopefully won't happen.


They discussed this on Curbside Classics and the main feeling everyone gets is that it's a general transition to what cars were like in the 20's and 30's. But it's also because Ford is currently lagging behind GM and FCA in terms of not only profitability, but stock market value and this in turn drives away investors. FCA and GM going bankrupt in 2008 actually benefited them because they were able to shed liabilities and axe or sell brands that weren't performing (hence the demise of Pontiac, Saturn and Saab), whereas Ford's sale of Volvo and Aston Martin was enough to keep it from becoming insolvent, but is now faced with the problem of having underperforming assets.

Ford also has the issue of being squeezed in other key markets, especially Europe, where the market is transitioning to either bare basic cars like Dacia, which are cheap, frugal transport (Dacia having been a runaway success for Renault) or premium brands who are moving downmarket. If you can buy a basic BMW or a fully loaded Ford, most people are going to chose the BMW over the Ford, even if the latter is better value. Where Ford is doing really well is in the pickups and SUV/CUV markets. Ironically, Toyota, Nissan and Honda are flagging at this point, with the Tundra and Titan selling nowhere near as many units and when was the last time you saw a Ridgeline?

I hope it won't affect Lincoln, I like the MKZ and Continental, the MKZ with a 400hp 3.0 ecoboost V6. is quick and it looks more stylish than any Audi or BMW.


Lincoln isn't making money either. One of the key issues is that Ford and Lincoln have stalled in China, whereas GM saw 50% growth last year. Cadillac's presence and image was not tainted as it was in the US, so the Chinese are more than happy to buy Cadillacs, which now sells more cars in China than it does in the US.
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Auzkhia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Auzkhia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:28 pm

People who want sedans don't usually go to Ford or GM, they buy a Honda or Toyota instead, but even the Accord faces tight competition from the CRV.

Ultimately, my concern is how the used car market will look like in the next decades, and what will be new.
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