The General Car Thread - The Facelift.

[Vassenor]

That moment when you have to decide if it's worth paying £600 more for an otherwise identical car just to have air conditioning / climate control.

The still make cars without air conditioning?

Hence the / qualifier. I think these days putting "air conditioning" in a listing means climate control and not just an AC button on the dashboard.

EDIT: Flicking through the brochures the option is indeed climate control and not just AC.

But yeah.

[NeoOasis]

Why?

Also, Peugeot can only expand into North America. They're everywhere else now.

Because most of then are fuguly.

If GM is allowed to sell the current Camaro and upcoming trucks... I think anyone should be allowed to sell on style. Peugeot at least looks interesting.

[Auzkhia]

Because most of then are fuguly.

If GM is allowed to sell the current Camaro and upcoming trucks... I think anyone should be allowed to sell on style. Peugeot at least looks interesting.

GM, especially in the Chevrolet brand, has some really ugmos in it. I don't really like their design language. My gripe with some designs now is that some cars have way too big grilles and they're partly fake, it's for looks, which don't even look good, it's a double fail.

[NeoOasis]

If GM is allowed to sell the current Camaro and upcoming trucks... I think anyone should be allowed to sell on style. Peugeot at least looks interesting.

GM, especially in the Chevrolet brand, has some really ugmos in it. I don't really like their design language. My gripe with some designs now is that some cars have way too big grilles and they're partly fake, it's for looks, which don't even look good, it's a double fail.

I really shouldn't go after GM alone here. Honda is just as bad for bad styling as MG. It's not so much the oversized grills that annoy me. Even if the obvious fake bits are quite annoying. Nah, for me it's the fact both the Camaro and the Accord look like the designers clocked out early, and never finished the front ends of the cars. The new Silverado is just as bad to me.

I can't even say tacked on or tacky... just absent.

[Costa Fierro]

Mini and Tesla are doing fine despite fewer if any dealers in some states.

Not for much longer.

[Vassenor]

So in the end I brought the black one from that comparison.

[Auzkhia]

GM, especially in the Chevrolet brand, has some really ugmos in it. I don't really like their design language. My gripe with some designs now is that some cars have way too big grilles and they're partly fake, it's for looks, which don't even look good, it's a double fail.

I really shouldn't go after GM alone here. Honda is just as bad for bad styling as MG. It's not so much the oversized grills that annoy me. Even if the obvious fake bits are quite annoying. Nah, for me it's the fact both the Camaro and the Accord look like the designers clocked out early, and never finished the front ends of the cars. The new Silverado is just as bad to me.

I can't even say tacked on or tacky... just absent.

I also thought of Toyota, some of their vehicles have really bad big grilles.

[Petrolheadia]

The 2019 European Car of the Year is the Jaguar I-Pace (250 pts, 18 1st place nominations), with the Alpine A110 (250 pts, 16 1st place nominations) and Kia Ceed (247 pts) closely trailing.

And that gave me an idea. What if we were the judges in that competition?

There are 25 points to give to at least five of the competing cars, with no more than 10 per car and no joint top mark.
The cars are Jaguar I-Pace, Alpine A110, Kia Ceed, Ford Focus, Citroen C5 Aircross, Peugeot 508 and Mercedes A-Class.

What are your choices?

For me, it's:
Kia - 9 points. Great car with good value for money.
Citroen - 7 points. Not as good, but redeems itself with value for money.
Ford - 4 points. Close, but no cigar.
Alpine - 3 points. At least has a good direction with lightness.
Jaguar - 2 points. Same as the Focus when compared with Teslas, but a bit worse value-for-money and likely reliability.

The Peugeot and Mercedes disqualified themselves with their pricing.

[NeoOasis]

I really shouldn't go after GM alone here. Honda is just as bad for bad styling as MG. It's not so much the oversized grills that annoy me. Even if the obvious fake bits are quite annoying. Nah, for me it's the fact both the Camaro and the Accord look like the designers clocked out early, and never finished the front ends of the cars. The new Silverado is just as bad to me.

I can't even say tacked on or tacky... just absent.

I also thought of Toyota, some of their vehicles have really bad big grilles.

True, and in the case of Avalon, quite obviously fake. Despite all that, I feel Toyota's styling is far more cohesive than GM's or Honda's. I'd say Toyota is on par with modern Hyundai's with a massive, but at least thought through grill.

And yet, I'd rather have a new VW or Subaru based on styling alone. I'm a sucker for classic designs.

[Auzkhia]

I also thought of Toyota, some of their vehicles have really bad big grilles.

True, and in the case of Avalon, quite obviously fake. Despite all that, I feel Toyota's styling is far more cohesive than GM's or Honda's. I'd say Toyota is on par with modern Hyundai's with a massive, but at least thought through grill.

And yet, I'd rather have a new VW or Subaru based on styling alone. I'm a sucker for classic designs.

Hyundai used to be good but they seem to tone down and got a bit bland again. The previous Sonata was really good looking.

The non-luxury brands that I think looks good? Ford, Fiat and Kia.

I only like the Volkswagen Beetle because it's a cute looking car.

[The Two Jerseys]

The more I look at the new Silverado, the more the styling grows on me. I think the LT trim looks best, the chrome grille and bumper definitely looks better than black/body-color, but it doesn't go overboard with the chrome like the LTZ does.

[Auzkhia]

Looks like a Transit Connect pickup, even smaller than the Ranger.

[Cannot think of a name]

Looks like a Transit Connect pickup, even smaller than the Ranger.

I honestly don't know why the mini pickup went away.

[Cannot think of a name]

Here's a little 80s mild weirdo survivor for you guys.

[Petrolheadia]

Looks like a Transit Connect pickup, even smaller than the Ranger.

I honestly don't know why the mini pickup went away.

Mini pickup, mini carrying capabilities.

[Cannot think of a name]

I honestly don't know why the mini pickup went away.

Mini pickup, mini carrying capabilities.

Well, you get the tautology award...

[Costa Fierro]

Looks like a Transit Connect pickup, even smaller than the Ranger.

I haven't seen that name in a while. Used to be applied to the rebadged Mazda utes that were sold here until they changed it to Ranger.

[Auzkhia]

Looks like a Transit Connect pickup, even smaller than the Ranger.

I honestly don't know why the mini pickup went away.

It baffles me as well.

In the US it's probably culture wars and tariffs, a lot of truck people want bigger trucks, and people who want a pickup but hate pickup bro culture buy a Ranger or S10 or Nissan Hardbody, small trucks that technology can never make obsolete. The new Ranger is bigger, but still smaller than F150, which has gotten bigger, and so has the superduty, Chevy, GMC, and Dodge trucks have also gotten bigger too.

[Auzkhia]

New Ford Transit, gets AWD and new ecoboost engines, and updated interior.

[Elwher]

I honestly don't know why the mini pickup went away.

It baffles me as well.

In the US it's probably culture wars and tariffs, a lot of truck people want bigger trucks, and people who want a pickup but hate pickup bro culture buy a Ranger or S10 or Nissan Hardbody, small trucks that technology can never make obsolete. The new Ranger is bigger, but still smaller than F150, which has gotten bigger, and so has the superduty, Chevy, GMC, and Dodge trucks have also gotten bigger too.

Culture wars, I agree. All the pickup people I know, city or country, are always on about how big theirs are (compensation, perhaps) and most of the rest would rather have a small van over a small pickup since the contents stay clean and dry.

[Piemicsurtreadoun]

I love cars but they need to stop getting more complex

[Auzkhia]

I love cars but they need to stop getting more complex

I know right? Henry Ford was a witch! He made it too complicated!

This a real car

But in seriousness, all I want is a car that I can play my phone's music through either bluetooth or apple carplay, and most cars until very recently do not have that. Having a good sounding engine, smooth ride, good brakes, and comfortable leather seats are all nice. It'd be nice to not die.

[NeoOasis]

I love cars but they need to stop getting more complex

I know right? Henry Ford was a witch! He made it too complicated!

This a real car

But in seriousness, all I want is a car that I can play my phone's music through either bluetooth or apple carplay, and most cars until very recently do not have that. Having a good sounding engine, smooth ride, good brakes, and comfortable leather seats are all nice. It'd be nice to not die.

I'll just respond to you since the original comment is now an ex-nation.

I can sort of understand were ex-nation is coming from. And I'd love to see cars lose weight through use of more exotic materials. At this point modern car design already pushes us into the realm of expensive to repair, so I don't see any real issues with using carbon fiber and what have you to reduce weight.

That being said, I'm absolutely chuffed you can buy a brand new car for 20 grand with technology and features only found in a 100k car 10 years ago. I love the fact modern cars are more powerful, more efficient, faster, and safer at prices that have remained steady or even fallen over the years.

[Auzkhia]

I know right? Henry Ford was a witch! He made it too complicated!

This a real car

But in seriousness, all I want is a car that I can play my phone's music through either bluetooth or apple carplay, and most cars until very recently do not have that. Having a good sounding engine, smooth ride, good brakes, and comfortable leather seats are all nice. It'd be nice to not die.

I'll just respond to you since the original comment is now an ex-nation.

I can sort of understand were ex-nation is coming from. And I'd love to see cars lose weight through use of more exotic materials. At this point modern car design already pushes us into the realm of expensive to repair, so I don't see any real issues with using carbon fiber and what have you to reduce weight.

That being said, I'm absolutely chuffed you can buy a brand new car for 20 grand with technology and features only found in a 100k car 10 years ago. I love the fact modern cars are more powerful, more efficient, faster, and safer at prices that have remained steady or even fallen over the years.

I'm driving used luxury cars, and aside from rwd and standard leather seats and big engines, they're not that different from a new economy car. Hell, modern economy cars made in the past 20 years would be just as advanced as, if not more than, luxury cars in the 1970s.

[Petrolheadia]

It baffles me as well.

In the US it's probably culture wars and tariffs, a lot of truck people want bigger trucks, and people who want a pickup but hate pickup bro culture buy a Ranger or S10 or Nissan Hardbody, small trucks that technology can never make obsolete. The new Ranger is bigger, but still smaller than F150, which has gotten bigger, and so has the superduty, Chevy, GMC, and Dodge trucks have also gotten bigger too.

Culture wars, I agree. All the pickup people I know, city or country, are always on about how big theirs are (compensation, perhaps)

Fuel economy regulations making it the only option for buying an old-style fullsize?