The General Car Thread - The Facelift.

[Auzkhia]

Jalopnik: Focus Hatch is better than the subcompact crossover Ecosport

So Jalopnik tested an EcoSport, which is based on a Fiesta, against a Focus... which is a size up from the Fiesta. So it's an apples to oranges comparison... good job Jalopnik. So basically, if I get a crossover a size down, I get as much space as something that is supposedly based on a larger platform... not bad.

To explain my logic. I tend to go by sizes as automakers seem to imply...
Fiesta = EcoSport
Focus = Escape
Fusion = Edge
Taurus = Exploder
????? = Expedition

So in this case it would be more fair to compare the EcoSport to a Fiesta... I'd be curious to see how the size differences would work out there.

Expedition is based on the F150, but the Taurus platform still has the Flex, which is more like a Wagon than an SUV. I'd recommend buying the Flex over the Explorer. However, I think the Transit Connect Passenger Minivan would be a good SUV alternative.

[NeoOasis]

So Jalopnik tested an EcoSport, which is based on a Fiesta, against a Focus... which is a size up from the Fiesta. So it's an apples to oranges comparison... good job Jalopnik. So basically, if I get a crossover a size down, I get as much space as something that is supposedly based on a larger platform... not bad.

To explain my logic. I tend to go by sizes as automakers seem to imply...
Fiesta = EcoSport
Focus = Escape
Fusion = Edge
Taurus = Exploder
????? = Expedition

So in this case it would be more fair to compare the EcoSport to a Fiesta... I'd be curious to see how the size differences would work out there.

Expedition is based on the F150, but the Taurus platform still has the Flex, which is more like a Wagon than an SUV. I'd recommend buying the Flex over the Explorer. However, I think the Transit Connect Passenger Minivan would be a good SUV alternative.

I suppose I should have written Taurus = Explorer = Flex

And that is true... I guess I was thinking specificially car platforms instead of trucks. So yeah... in this case F-150 would be Expedition. And soon we'll at Ranger = Bronco.

With that in mind. I'm interested to see where the next generation Explorer will go. Ford is apparently moving back to a native rear wheel drive setup instead of the crossover stuff of today's generation. And reading over Ford's wiki page on the Explorer helped me realize just how long in the tooth the current Explorer is. Ford used to do a full redesign every 4 years, instead the current generation will be about 9 years old when they finally replace it.

[Auzkhia]

Expedition is based on the F150, but the Taurus platform still has the Flex, which is more like a Wagon than an SUV. I'd recommend buying the Flex over the Explorer. However, I think the Transit Connect Passenger Minivan would be a good SUV alternative.

I suppose I should have written Taurus = Explorer = Flex

And that is true... I guess I was thinking specificially car platforms instead of trucks. So yeah... in this case F-150 would be Expedition. And soon we'll at Ranger = Bronco.

With that in mind. I'm interested to see where the next generation Explorer will go. Ford is apparently moving back to a native rear wheel drive setup instead of the crossover stuff of today's generation. And reading over Ford's wiki page on the Explorer helped me realize just how long in the tooth the current Explorer is. Ford used to do a full redesign every 4 years, instead the current generation will be about 9 years old when they finally replace it.

Explorer is pretty popular as the police interceptor utility, the Taurus ends after the 2019 MY. Chevrolet has the Caprice and Tahoe PPV and there is a Dodge Charger Police car, all of those are RWD based vehicles. Be interesting what Ford will offer as the next generation of Police Interceptors, at least the Crown Victoria was mostly in fleets, but soccer moms also bought the Explorer so I had to look out for the differences.

[New Wolvers]

Big huge question pals.

As is confirmed I will go from Italy to Hungary, I have a few questions:
1) which country to pass to? Austria or Slovenia?
2) about the vignette system: how does it work in those three countries? Where can I get them?

[NeoOasis]

I suppose I should have written Taurus = Explorer = Flex

And that is true... I guess I was thinking specificially car platforms instead of trucks. So yeah... in this case F-150 would be Expedition. And soon we'll at Ranger = Bronco.

With that in mind. I'm interested to see where the next generation Explorer will go. Ford is apparently moving back to a native rear wheel drive setup instead of the crossover stuff of today's generation. And reading over Ford's wiki page on the Explorer helped me realize just how long in the tooth the current Explorer is. Ford used to do a full redesign every 4 years, instead the current generation will be about 9 years old when they finally replace it.

Explorer is pretty popular as the police interceptor utility, the Taurus ends after the 2019 MY. Chevrolet has the Caprice and Tahoe PPV and there is a Dodge Charger Police car, all of those are RWD based vehicles. Be interesting what Ford will offer as the next generation of Police Interceptors, at least the Crown Victoria was mostly in fleets, but soccer moms also bought the Explorer so I had to look out for the differences.

If I'm not mistaken the Caprice has been phased out since GM Australia is killing off their native Holden platforms. And nice to know the Taurus is finally being killed off next year. That thing should have died years ago... or at least gotten a redesign that puts it on part with other full size sedans.

Meaning that in the next two years the only sedan offered for police duty in the US market will be a Charger. At least the Explorer and Tahoe have proven to be fairly popular among various police forces.

[Auzkhia]

Explorer is pretty popular as the police interceptor utility, the Taurus ends after the 2019 MY. Chevrolet has the Caprice and Tahoe PPV and there is a Dodge Charger Police car, all of those are RWD based vehicles. Be interesting what Ford will offer as the next generation of Police Interceptors, at least the Crown Victoria was mostly in fleets, but soccer moms also bought the Explorer so I had to look out for the differences.

If I'm not mistaken the Caprice has been phased out since GM Australia is killing off their native Holden platforms. And nice to know the Taurus is finally being killed off next year. That thing should have died years ago... or at least gotten a redesign that puts it on part with other full size sedans.

Meaning that in the next two years the only sedan offered for police duty in the US market will be a Charger. At least the Explorer and Tahoe have proven to be fairly popular among various police forces.

They've got the Continental and MKZ, and the Fusion will stay around for a while, see how it still hangs on, but I'll drive sedans before I get a crossover SUV, I don't like them, but I like vans, including minivans, which I believe are the superior choice to suvs.

[Cannot think of a name]

Ooo, an actual finished La Dawri Daytona. Usually they're a mess. Don't like the Ferrari bullshit on the back, though. T'ain't no Ferrari.

In other kit car news, I might actually get to go buy a Sterling for a studio I work for on occasion.

I already acquired a Commutacar for them.

[Petrolheadia]

Jalopnik: Focus Hatch is better than the subcompact crossover Ecosport

I agree, however this would be better than the Ecosport. It's taller where it needs to be and is more car like. I drove in one from Freiburg, Germany to Basel, Switzerland. It wasn't bad at all. Tiny car but roomy interior.

IIRC the Tourneo has a more limited engine choice and a more passenger-van-like interior quality. Mainly because it is a small passenger van.

Also, when he complained that the EcoSport does not need AWD, he could have quoted the FWD price for comparison.

[Auzkhia]

Ooo, an actual finished La Dawri Daytona. Usually they're a mess. Don't like the Ferrari bullshit on the back, though. T'ain't no Ferrari.

In other kit car news, I might actually get to go buy a Sterling for a studio I work for on occasion.

I already acquired a Commutacar for them.

Kit cars look like off brand toy cars.

Isn't that a Scottish car?

[Prosorusiya]

Explorer is pretty popular as the police interceptor utility, the Taurus ends after the 2019 MY. Chevrolet has the Caprice and Tahoe PPV and there is a Dodge Charger Police car, all of those are RWD based vehicles. Be interesting what Ford will offer as the next generation of Police Interceptors, at least the Crown Victoria was mostly in fleets, but soccer moms also bought the Explorer so I had to look out for the differences.

If I'm not mistaken the Caprice has been phased out since GM Australia is killing off their native Holden platforms. And nice to know the Taurus is finally being killed off next year. That thing should have died years ago... or at least gotten a redesign that puts it on part with other full size sedans.

Meaning that in the next two years the only sedan offered for police duty in the US market will be a Charger. At least the Explorer and Tahoe have proven to be fairly popular among various police forces.

Speaking of, because barely anybody actually responds to my questions over on the non-mil realism thread, are police forces going over to modern SUVs vs sedans a good thing in your opinion? I have heard the new "pursuit" vehicles are actually pretty slow. I have also heard the move away from body on frame design has made repair costs higher and ramming less effective with new SUV based vehicles. Are there any cars out there that even use body on frame construction anymore?

I am contemplating adding new vehicles to my nations police force a the moment and looking into vehicles that can fill both the role currently fulfilled by the venerable Lada 2104 and Uaz-469, neither of which in fairness has much get up and go...

[Petrolheadia]

If I'm not mistaken the Caprice has been phased out since GM Australia is killing off their native Holden platforms. And nice to know the Taurus is finally being killed off next year. That thing should have died years ago... or at least gotten a redesign that puts it on part with other full size sedans.

Meaning that in the next two years the only sedan offered for police duty in the US market will be a Charger. At least the Explorer and Tahoe have proven to be fairly popular among various police forces.

Speaking of, because barely anybody actually responds to my questions over on the non-mil realism thread, are police forces going over to modern SUVs vs sedans a good thing in your opinion? I have heard the new "pursuit" vehicles are actually pretty slow. I have also heard the move away from body on frame design has made repair costs higher and ramming less effective with new SUV based vehicles. Are there any cars out there that even use body on frame construction anymore?

I am contemplating adding new vehicles to my nations police force a the moment and looking into vehicles that can fill both the role currently fulfilled by the venerable Lada 2104 and Uaz-469, neither of which in fairness has much get up and go...

Well, you certainly aren't looking for US fullsizes.

You'd be better served by new UAZs and Ladas, or Chinese pickups (e.g. Great Wall) and compacts (Lifan, Brilliance).

[Prosorusiya]

Police pickup trucks? Never heard of that before, at least for patrol units! I will have to check out the UAZ line to see what the nearest equivalent to a Ford Police Interceptor Utility is.

On an unrelated (mostly) note, I think it's totally daft that Ford has gotten rid of it's cars... a crossover is the most like 90% of the world needs so why bother making anything else? I don't get why they didn't keep the Fiesta around, it was a great little car and filled the hatchback-sedan end of the market well. Ford could get away with just making Fiestas and the "Echo-Sport" (god what an awful name), and be totally fine.

[Petrolheadia]

Police pickup trucks? Never heard of that before, at least for patrol units! I will have to check out the UAZ line to see what the nearest equivalent to a Ford Police Interceptor Utility is.

On an unrelated (mostly) note, I think it's totally daft that Ford has gotten rid of it's cars... a crossover is the most like 90% of the world needs so why bother making anything else? I don't get why they didn't keep the Fiesta around, it was a great little car and filled the hatchback-sedan end of the market well. Ford could get away with just making Fiestas and the "Echo-Sport" (god what an awful name), and be totally fine.

No, because small, cheap cars bring awful profit margins.

[Auzkhia]

Police pickup trucks? Never heard of that before, at least for patrol units! I will have to check out the UAZ line to see what the nearest equivalent to a Ford Police Interceptor Utility is.

On an unrelated (mostly) note, I think it's totally daft that Ford has gotten rid of it's cars... a crossover is the most like 90% of the world needs so why bother making anything else? I don't get why they didn't keep the Fiesta around, it was a great little car and filled the hatchback-sedan end of the market well. Ford could get away with just making Fiestas and the "Echo-Sport" (god what an awful name), and be totally fine.

The Fiesta was neat, the powershift wasn't good, but I think they should have used a CVT, only reason because they found that a regular automatic wouldn't give them the desired fuel economy. The new generation of the Focus uses an 8 speed automatic. Lincoln is doing what they should've done many years ago, and I think they have one of the nicest and finest, if not the best, luxury interior. Lincoln realized they couldn't do sport luxury well, so they make a soft comfort focused luxury. BMW/Audi/Mercedes compromise between performance and luxury, but Lincoln is going back to its roots. However, I think they should have gone with a RWD platform with a 5.0 v8 option, but already a turbo V6 option can make 400hp, which is the most powerful Lincoln ever. The Town Cars only made 239hp.

Police pickup trucks? Never heard of that before, at least for patrol units! I will have to check out the UAZ line to see what the nearest equivalent to a Ford Police Interceptor Utility is.

On an unrelated (mostly) note, I think it's totally daft that Ford has gotten rid of it's cars... a crossover is the most like 90% of the world needs so why bother making anything else? I don't get why they didn't keep the Fiesta around, it was a great little car and filled the hatchback-sedan end of the market well. Ford could get away with just making Fiestas and the "Echo-Sport" (god what an awful name), and be totally fine.

No, because small, cheap cars bring awful profit margins.

Once again, profiteering stifles the creative process and innovation. Ford has the means to make great cars, but chose to cut corners and don't care as long their executives can hoard wealth.

[Elwher]

No, because small, cheap cars bring awful profit margins.
Once again, profiteering stifles the creative process and innovation. Ford has the means to make great cars, but chose to cut corners and don't care as long their executives can hoard wealth.

They are a corporation, not a design studio. They have, at least under US law, a fiduciary obligation to their stockholders to maximize long term profits. Yes, the executives gain under it but so do the thousands of people whose IRA or mutual fund holds Ford stock.

[Petrolheadia]

Once again, profiteering stifles the creative process and innovation. Ford has the means to make great cars, but chose to cut corners and don't care as long their executives can hoard wealth.

No. Profits shift research to where it also benefits Ford and its shareholders.

[Auzkhia]

Once again, profiteering stifles the creative process and innovation. Ford has the means to make great cars, but chose to cut corners and don't care as long their executives can hoard wealth.

No. Profits shift research to where it also benefits Ford and its shareholders.

No, because small, cheap cars bring awful profit margins.
Once again, profiteering stifles the creative process and innovation. Ford has the means to make great cars, but chose to cut corners and don't care as long their executives can hoard wealth.

They are a corporation, not a design studio. They have, at least under US law, a fiduciary obligation to their stockholders to maximize long term profits. Yes, the executives gain under it but so do the thousands of people whose IRA or mutual fund holds Ford stock.

If money weren't a concern, cars could take different shapes and forms, including some dream builds straight from the factory, but then again I'm sort of dreaming idealist. The Ford Motor Company is a corporation whose goal is to make money, making and selling cars just happens to be their prefered method. And there is evidence that FoMoCo and other makers have cut corners on quality in order to save their bottom line. They knew better, and yes making money is their goal, but it shouldn't be like that.

[Petrolheadia]

No. Profits shift research to where it also benefits Ford and its shareholders.

They are a corporation, not a design studio. They have, at least under US law, a fiduciary obligation to their stockholders to maximize long term profits. Yes, the executives gain under it but so do the thousands of people whose IRA or mutual fund holds Ford stock.

If money weren't a concern, cars could take different shapes and forms, including some dream builds straight from the factory, but then again I'm sort of dreaming idealist. The Ford Motor Company is a corporation whose goal is to make money, making and selling cars just happens to be their prefered method. And there is evidence that FoMoCo and other makers have cut corners on quality in order to save their bottom line. They knew better, and yes making money is their goal, but it shouldn't be like that.

Cutting corners to save money only works when the market buys such cars.

At least in a free market. bailouts

[Elwher]

If money weren't a concern, cars could take different shapes and forms, including some dream builds straight from the factory, but then again I'm sort of dreaming idealist. The Ford Motor Company is a corporation whose goal is to make money, making and selling cars just happens to be their prefered method. And there is evidence that FoMoCo and other makers have cut corners on quality in order to save their bottom line. They knew better, and yes making money is their goal, but it shouldn't be like that.

Cutting corners to save money only works when the market buys such cars.

At least in a free market. bailouts

Very true. Look what happened with the Pinto. We, as the consumers, are more to blame for the deplorable state of the auto industry than the companies. They are producing what we tell them, via our purchases, that we want.

[Petrolheadia]

Cutting corners to save money only works when the market buys such cars.

At least in a free market. bailouts

Very true. Look what happened with the Pinto. We, as the consumers, are more to blame for the deplorable state of the auto industry than the companies. They are producing what we tell them, via our purchases, that we want.

The Pinto was in general decently safe for a subcompact.

"UCLA law professor Gary T. Schwartz, in a Rutgers Law Review article (see Section 7.3 NHTSA Investigation above), studied the fatality rates of the Pinto and several other small cars of the time period. He noted that fires, and rear-end fires in particular, are very small portion of overall auto fatalities. At the time only 1% of automobile crashes would result in fire and only 4% of fatal accidents involved fire, and only 15% of fatal fire crashes are the result of rear-end collisions.[133] When considering the overall safety of the Pinto, Schwartz notes that subcompact cars as a class have a generally higher fatality risk. Pintos represented 1.9% of all cars on the road in the 1975–76 period. During that time the car represented 1.9% of all "fatal accidents accompanied by some fire." Implying the car was average for all cars and slightly above average for its class.[134] When all types of fatalities are considered the Pinto was approximately even with the AMC Gremlin, Chevrolet Vega, and Datsun 510. It was significantly better than the Datsun 1200/210, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.[133] The safety record of the car in terms of fire was average or slightly below average for compacts, and all cars respectively. This was considered respectable for a subcompact car. Only when considering the narrow subset of rear-impact, fire fatalities is the car somewhat worse than the average for subcompact cars. While acknowledging this is an important legal point, Schwartz rejects the portrayal of the car as a firetrap.[135]"

[Auzkhia]

But muh Japanese reliability. Apparently according to Honda, stalling is not a safety issue.

[Vassenor]

Welp, passed my written test today. Now have two years to pass the road test as well then I'm set.

[Petrolheadia]

My father seems to be shopping around for a new car.

He is thinking about splurging up for a brand-new, warrantied car, and the base 1.6 turbo DCT Kia Optima is what caught our eye.

A bit above our 100k PLN (ca. $27k) budget, but it has an unmatched 7-year warranty, plus more equipment and power than similarily-priced Euro midsizers (the Japanese are outside this price league).

The Corolla would either be my first car or get sold on. If it gets sold, I'd probably buy some premium or sporty-ish compact/midsizer (Ford Focus, Lexus IS200, Alfa Romeo 159, etc.)

Also,,I've been helping my friend find a sporty-ish car for 7k PLN (ca. $1800). I gave him a list of choices with descriptions (Alfa Romeo 156, 6th/7th-gen Honda Civic, Audi A4 B5, BMW E36/E46, 1st gen Subaru Impreza, 1st gen Ford Focus).

[Auzkhia]

My father seems to be shopping around for a new car.

He is thinking about splurging up for a brand-new, warrantied car, and the base 1.6 turbo DCT Kia Optima is what caught our eye.

A bit above our 100k PLN (ca. $27k) budget, but it has an unmatched 7-year warranty, plus more equipment and power than similarily-priced Euro midsizers (the Japanese are outside this price league).

According to reddit carpeople, Kia is killing it these days, if he likes that, and feels that it is the best deal, go for it.

[Cannot think of a name]

Welp, passed my written test today. Now have two years to pass the road test as well then I'm set.

Controlled slides on off ramps. Hunter s Thompson told me that’s the only thing they respect...