The General Car Thread - The Facelift.

[NeoOasis]

Chevy Cavalier, Dodge Neon,

Tend to be better-maintained than Japanese cars at such low prices.

No, they really don't. The Cavaliers and Neons that have survived thus far are in dire shape. Like the Focus/Escort of the same era, they were treated as disposable commodities, and maintained as such. Drove a Cavalier for a month, and my family sold it shortly after when it started falling apart faster than it could be repaired.

"At those prices" nothing is maintained any longer, and you'd be lucky to have em run.

[Lamborghini Aventador]

yes though they do hold up well

[Petrolheadia]

Tend to be better-maintained than Japanese cars at such low prices.

No, they really don't. The Cavaliers and Neons that have survived thus far are in dire shape. Like the Focus/Escort of the same era, they were treated as disposable commodities, and maintained as such. Drove a Cavalier for a month, and my family sold it shortly after when it started falling apart faster than it could be repaired.

"At those prices" nothing is maintained any longer, and you'd be lucky to have em run.

There is a lot of room between slightly falling apart and worn rustbuckets. Once you start a gradation of beaters, the US stuff will win at the price point.

[Auzkhia]

Mitsubishi Mirage: An example of a terrible car I love.

It's bad in the right ways, I admire it because of that.

Gods, I'm such a car hipster.

[Arkinesia]

Mitsubishi Mirage: An example of a terrible car I love.

It's bad in the right ways, I admire it because of that.

Gods, I'm such a car hipster.

Yeah that is definitely a hipster take. The only reason anyone could like the Mirage is due it being purposely bad. There's no excuse for uncontoured rear seats. It doesn't actually save money, it's done just to tell the presumptive end users to go fuck themselves.

[Auzkhia]

Mitsubishi Mirage: An example of a terrible car I love.

It's bad in the right ways, I admire it because of that.

Gods, I'm such a car hipster.

Yeah that is definitely a hipster take. The only reason anyone could like the Mirage is due it being purposely bad. There's no excuse for uncontoured rear seats. It doesn't actually save money, it's done just to tell the presumptive end users to go fuck themselves.

It's cheap, but there are other cheap cars that are better. The Chevrolet Spark is a bit better, and it has the cheapest MSRP, and so are the Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Accent, Nissan Versa, Kia Rio, Honda Fit, and Toyota Yaris.

Mitsubishi dealers want to sell them so badly that you can get one new for only $10k, they take a lot off from sticker price. I'd like to rent one, even on Turo.

[Lamborghini Aventador]

Yeah that is definitely a hipster take. The only reason anyone could like the Mirage is due it being purposely bad. There's no excuse for uncontoured rear seats. It doesn't actually save money, it's done just to tell the presumptive end users to go fuck themselves.

It's cheap, but there are other cheap cars that are better. The Chevrolet Spark is a bit better, and it has the cheapest MSRP, and so are the Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Accent, Nissan Versa, Kia Rio, Honda Fit, and Toyota Yaris.

Mitsubishi dealers want to sell them so badly that you can get one new for only $10k, they take a lot off from sticker price. I'd like to rent one, even on Turo.

I personally love the outlanders not the sports but the full size ones because of how good they look I have a 2016 outlander

[Petrolheadia]

It's cheap, but there are other cheap cars that are better. The Chevrolet Spark is a bit better, and it has the cheapest MSRP, and so are the Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Accent, Nissan Versa, Kia Rio, Honda Fit, and Toyota Yaris.

Mitsubishi dealers want to sell them so badly that you can get one new for only $10k, they take a lot off from sticker price. I'd like to rent one, even on Turo.

I personally love the outlanders not the sports but the full size ones because of how good they look I have a 2016 outlander

Outlander - barely OK in 2013, not even that in 2019.

Renault-Nissan doesn't even have much room for a decent Mitsubishi any more. First they didn't have the profits to engineer new cars, now they're just a less respected Nissan doppelganger.

[Elwher]

Mitsubishi Mirage: An example of a terrible car I love.

It's bad in the right ways, I admire it because of that.

Gods, I'm such a car hipster.

Yeah that is definitely a hipster take. The only reason anyone could like the Mirage is due it being purposely bad. There's no excuse for uncontoured rear seats. It doesn't actually save money, it's done just to tell the presumptive end users to go fuck themselves.

It is the logical successor to the Spridgit/MGB line. An affordable roadster. No one really expects to use the back seats anyway.

[The Two Jerseys]

Yeah that is definitely a hipster take. The only reason anyone could like the Mirage is due it being purposely bad. There's no excuse for uncontoured rear seats. It doesn't actually save money, it's done just to tell the presumptive end users to go fuck themselves.

It is the logical successor to the Spridgit/MGB line. An affordable roadster. No one really expects to use the back seats anyway.

This is sarcasm, right?

[Petrolheadia]

It is the logical successor to the Spridgit/MGB line. An affordable roadster. No one really expects to use the back seats anyway.

This is sarcasm, right?

If I can find a suitable Euro car for the comparison, it's the Fiat 500/126. Or maybe the Zaporozhetz cars.

Basically a car built to the rule of "we don't care how bad it is, it just has to be the cheapest on the market and acceptable for the price".

[Elwher]

It is the logical successor to the Spridgit/MGB line. An affordable roadster. No one really expects to use the back seats anyway.

This is sarcasm, right?

Sorry, It was late at night and I read Miata where you wrote Mirage. Ignore my tired stupidity.

[Auzkhia]

This is sarcasm, right?

Sorry, It was late at night and I read Miata where you wrote Mirage. Ignore my tired stupidity.

Get a sawzall to its roof and the Mirage can be a roadster.

[The Two Jerseys]

Sorry, It was late at night and I read Miata where you wrote Mirage. Ignore my tired stupidity.

Get a sawzall to its roof and the Mirage can be a roadster.

Hey, if the Eclipse can be a crossover...

[Petrolheadia]

Get a sawzall to its roof and the Mirage can be a roadster.

Hey, if the Eclipse can be a crossover...

Probably already said that, but crossovers are what those old coupes were - putting a fancier body on an ordinary sedan to sell it at a hiher price.

[Petrolheadia]

I'm thinking about getting a Mercedes 190, W124 or W202 with an automatic.

Auzkhia, could you tell me what is it like to live with one? What is it like to drive, compared with (at least how you'd imagine) a Corolla? What is the reliability and running costs?

[Auzkhia]

I'm thinking about getting a Mercedes 190, W124 or W202 with an automatic.

Auzkhia, could you tell me what is it like to live with one? What is it like to drive, compared with (at least how you'd imagine) a Corolla? What is the reliability and running costs?

It depends on the conditions and engine you have. I had the V6, the middle choice sold in the US in 1999.

It'd be more fun, I know rust was a big problem for mine, most recent repairs were putting suspension parts back together due to rust, and the car very little other problems, only which were a broken idler pulley and the catalytic convert got clogged over the years, old parts can detioriate with time, but, overall, was a good car, that started to fall apart.

I liked driving it, it handles well with the sport package.

190e and W124 are different, apparently, Mercedes rust problems really only effected the W210 and W202.

[Petrolheadia]

I'm thinking about getting a Mercedes 190, W124 or W202 with an automatic.

Auzkhia, could you tell me what is it like to live with one? What is it like to drive, compared with (at least how you'd imagine) a Corolla? What is the reliability and running costs?

It depends on the conditions and engine you have. I had the V6, the middle choice sold in the US in 1999.

It'd be more fun, I know rust was a big problem for mine, most recent repairs were putting suspension parts back together due to rust, and the car very little other problems, only which were a broken idler pulley and the catalytic convert got clogged over the years, old parts can detioriate with time, but, overall, was a good car, that started to fall apart.

I liked driving it, it handles well with the sport package.

190e and W124 are different, apparently, Mercedes rust problems really only effected the W210 and W202.

What about ride comfort? Ease of maneuvering? Transmission quality? Practicality? Build quality?

Just asking.

[Oyada]

I'm going to simply barge into this thread and say the following: I own a PT Cruiser, and it's fantastic. It has 95,000 miles on its clock, and everything still works; the engine's smooth, the gearbox is tight and precise (well... top gear can be a bugger 'cos of the narrow gate), and the soft suspension gently bounces and rolls me over every divot and pothole in the battered roads of Britain. It's coped with ice and snow and last year's bloody hot summer without skipping a beat, carried me in comfort across the twisty, hilly Yorkshire Dales, cautiously clambered up steep hills and round single-track bends where the hedges brush the wing mirrors without complaint, and pounded along the motorways with aplomb. It's supremely comfortable, quiet, and quite happy to zip along at 85 70 miles per hour as prescribed by the Highway Code, constable, of course. I love its looks and I love its practicality, and I find the hate it gets in some segments of the web quietly bizarre.

Tl;dr: I own a PT Cruiser and it's good, fite me. Or don't.

[Petrolheadia]

I'm going to simply barge into this thread and say the following: I own a PT Cruiser, and it's fantastic. It has 95,000 miles on its clock, and everything still works; the engine's smooth, the gearbox is tight and precise (well... top gear can be a bugger 'cos of the narrow gate), and the soft suspension gently bounces and rolls me over every divot and pothole in the battered roads of Britain. It's coped with ice and snow and last year's bloody hot summer without skipping a beat, carried me in comfort across the twisty, hilly Yorkshire Dales, cautiously clambered up steep hills and round single-track bends where the hedges brush the wing mirrors without complaint, and pounded along the motorways with aplomb. It's supremely comfortable, quiet, and quite happy to zip along at 85 70 miles per hour as prescribed by the Highway Code, constable, of course. I love its looks and I love its practicality, and I find the hate it gets in some segments of the web quietly bizarre.

Tl;dr: I own a PT Cruiser and it's good, fite me. Or don't.

If you care about those qualities (comfort, smoothness, cruising), US cars are better than many Internet Car Experts would have you believe.

[Oyada]

I didn't want to be One Of Those People who spouts clichés, but that was honestly my thought as well; I knew American cars were reputed to be soft and spongy, but nothing prepared me for the PT. I learned on a Peugeot 108; that machine was just wrong if you sat in it for a couple of hours at a stretch. The distance to the controls was always wrong no matter where I set it, the seat was padded with a sneeze of foam, and even at maximum height I had constant gorilla arm after an hour of driving.

By comparison, three or four hours in the Chrysler is a breeze; thanks to the upright seating position and generous padding, I feel fresh when I get out. And good grief, the suspension. Yes, the body rolls a fair bit in turns - doing a series of tight bends at speed in a PT Cruiser is like a really cheap rollercoaster - but it rocks and rolls gently, softly, and without pounding your kidneys and spine to bits. Maybe I'm just old, but I prefer comfort to power I can't use (and I mean that; speed cameras proliferate like fucking dandelions) and suspension that pretends I'm doing 140 on the Nurburgring, when I'm actually doing 40 on the Cheltenham bypass.

[Petrolheadia]

I didn't want to be One Of Those People who spouts clichés, but that was honestly my thought as well; I knew American cars were reputed to be soft and spongy, but nothing prepared me for the PT. I learned on a Peugeot 108; that machine was just wrong if you sat in it for a couple of hours at a stretch. The distance to the controls was always wrong no matter where I set it, the seat was padded with a sneeze of foam, and even at maximum height I had constant gorilla arm after an hour of driving.

By comparison, three or four hours in the Chrysler is a breeze; thanks to the upright seating position and generous padding, I feel fresh when I get out. And good grief, the suspension. Yes, the body rolls a fair bit in turns - doing a series of tight bends at speed in a PT Cruiser is like a really cheap rollercoaster - but it rocks and rolls gently, softly, and without pounding your kidneys and spine to bits. Maybe I'm just old, but I prefer comfort to power I can't use (and I mean that; speed cameras proliferate like fucking dandelions) and suspension that pretends I'm doing 140 on the Nurburgring, when I'm actually doing 40 on the Cheltenham bypass.

What I like in car interiors is having large distances between the floor, steering wheel and seat. I've driven a 2007 Corolla and it feels like squeezing in for me. Also, give me some flat seats, as I am too big for most buckets.

As for the suspension, it could be soft or hard (more on the softer side), as long as the steering gives good feel and yet isn't a bloody workout. Maybe even the more important thing is not having the steering be a bloody workout.

And for me, the gearbox has to be automatic. I can drive manual, but would rather not.

[Oyada]

What I like in car interiors is having large distances between the floor, steering wheel and seat. I've driven a 2007 Corolla and it feels like squeezing in for me. Also, give me some flat seats, as I am too big for most buckets.

As for the suspension, it could be soft or hard (more on the softer side), as long as the steering gives good feel and yet isn't a bloody workout. Maybe even the more important thing is not having the steering be a bloody workout.

And for me, the gearbox has to be automatic. I can drive manual, but would rather not.

Too right; I, like my dad, like a longer motor where I can get my legs some stretching room. Surprisingly, the PT's steering's quite good at speed; slow-speed steering is pretty shite though. The narrow nose has a transverse-4 and all the trimmings packed in, and there's not much space for wheel wells. Parking is a trial, although I suppose by US standards it's pretty small (I remember being in a Chevy Suburban - it was the size of a minibus) which makes it easier.

I'm still new enough to driving to find my manual box fun - I take pleasure in a good gear change - but I've no doubt when I've been doing it for ten years I'll just want an auto box and convenience (as a friend of mine put it: When you've been changing gear for fourteen years, you just want to stop"). I'm already eyeing up a 300C with the 5.7L Hemi in as my next car because... well, when else will I get to drive a Hemi V8? So I guess I might go auto myself soon. Still don't quite understand why Americans are so keen on automatics, I have to admit - convenience in city traffic seems to be a big reason.

[Petrolheadia]

What I like in car interiors is having large distances between the floor, steering wheel and seat. I've driven a 2007 Corolla and it feels like squeezing in for me. Also, give me some flat seats, as I am too big for most buckets.

As for the suspension, it could be soft or hard (more on the softer side), as long as the steering gives good feel and yet isn't a bloody workout. Maybe even the more important thing is not having the steering be a bloody workout.

And for me, the gearbox has to be automatic. I can drive manual, but would rather not.

Too right; I, like my dad, like a longer motor where I can get my legs some stretching room. Surprisingly, the PT's steering's quite good at speed; slow-speed steering is pretty shite though. The narrow nose has a transverse-4 and all the trimmings packed in, and there's not much space for wheel wells. Parking is a trial, although I suppose by US standards it's pretty small (I remember being in a Chevy Suburban - it was the size of a minibus) which makes it easier.

I'm still new enough to driving to find my manual box fun - I take pleasure in a good gear change - but I've no doubt when I've been doing it for ten years I'll just want an auto box and convenience (as a friend of mine put it: When you've been changing gear for fourteen years, you just want to stop"). I'm already eyeing up a 300C with the 5.7L Hemi in as my next car because... well, when else will I get to drive a Hemi V8? So I guess I might go auto myself soon. Still don't quite understand why Americans are so keen on automatics, I have to admit - convenience in city traffic seems to be a big reason.

I don't know what the ownership costs of one are in the UK, but if you can cope with it, I guess that the V8 300 would be quite nice for you. The Hemi motor is also quite reliable for a powerplant of its segment.

Though the Lexus LS is also a comfortable mile-muncher, its build quality is better, and it's not as virtually-non-existent in the classifieds as a 300 that is not a V6 one.

[Auzkhia]

It depends on the conditions and engine you have. I had the V6, the middle choice sold in the US in 1999.

It'd be more fun, I know rust was a big problem for mine, most recent repairs were putting suspension parts back together due to rust, and the car very little other problems, only which were a broken idler pulley and the catalytic convert got clogged over the years, old parts can detioriate with time, but, overall, was a good car, that started to fall apart.

I liked driving it, it handles well with the sport package.

190e and W124 are different, apparently, Mercedes rust problems really only effected the W210 and W202.

What about ride comfort? Ease of maneuvering? Transmission quality? Practicality? Build quality?

Just asking.

Comfort is good, better than an average car, but it's not going to be the smoothest. Transmission is good, never had any issues. It's a midsize sedan, and I fit a lot of stuff in it when I moved to college. Build quality is good too, though the headliner may need new glue. Again, rust was the biggest problem. If you find one without much, you're good, unless you have a welder friend.

Overall: A good all-around, jack of all trades, but probably won't be the master of any, unless you want just one car that can do everything. It's versatile.