The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Saranidia]

Don't put your human emotions on to Allah SWT. Allah SWT knows best what he is doing and has the best plan. One of the cornerstone of Al-Islam is Sabr (patience), Sabr until the help of Allah SWT comes however long that may be.

Besides, it's never that simple. One of the things you can learn from scifi is that the balance of the multiverse is delicate and every single thing has a potential of messing up timelines and making things even worse then they already are.

True. It’s also presumptuous to think that one would be able to predict the plans of an all-knowing being.

[The Archregimancy]

Just curious - this isn't remotely a leading question, or one designed to challenge - but why does the thread poll list Zaydis, Sufis, and Salafists separately from their 'parent' groups?

Zaydis are Shia; if you're going to list them separately from other Shia, then why not list Ismailis (for example) separately?

Sufis are Sunni (though historically there were Shia Sufis); why list them separately from other Sunnis? Ditto Salafists.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Just curious - this isn't remotely a leading question, or one designed to challenge - but why does the thread poll list Zaydis, Sufis, and Salafists separately from their 'parent' groups?

Zaydis are Shia; if you're going to list them separately from other Shia, then why not list Ismailis (for example) separately?

Sufis are Sunni (though historically there were Shia Sufis); why list them separately from other Sunnis? Ditto Salafists.

Ye the poll could use some reform. Qur'anists shouldn't be in the poll for example. And there are some Shi'a Sufis as well.

[Jolthig]

Just curious - this isn't remotely a leading question, or one designed to challenge - but why does the thread poll list Zaydis, Sufis, and Salafists separately from their 'parent' groups?

Zaydis are Shia; if you're going to list them separately from other Shia, then why not list Ismailis (for example) separately?

Sufis are Sunni (though historically there were Shia Sufis); why list them separately from other Sunnis? Ditto Salafists.

Ye the poll could use some reform. Qur'anists shouldn't be in the poll for example. And there are some Shi'a Sufis as well.

well, people asked me to put a lot of sects on poll. I think in a way to make up for space?

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Qur'anists shouldn't be in the poll for example.

And why's that?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ye the poll could use some reform. Qur'anists shouldn't be in the poll for example. And there are some Shi'a Sufis as well.

well, people asked me to put a lot of sects on poll. I think in a way to make up for space?

You coulda put up a more legitimate denomination tho...
Eh, it's ok.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Qur'anists shouldn't be in the poll for example.

And why's that?

They aren't Muslim. Or at least their beliefs are kufr.

[Jolthig]

And why's that?

They aren't Muslim. Or at least their beliefs are kufr.

Quranists are Muslim as long as they recite shada. But yeah, they got ignorant beliefs which results from a misunderstanding of hadith science.

well, people asked me to put a lot of sects on poll. I think in a way to make up for space?

You coulda put up a more legitimate denomination tho...
Eh, it's ok.

I did at the time as everyone asked me lol

[The Archregimancy]

They aren't Muslim. Or at least their beliefs are kufr.

Quranists are Muslim as long as they recite shada. But yeah, they got ignorant beliefs which results from a misunderstanding of hadith science.

You coulda put up a more legitimate denomination tho...
Eh, it's ok.

I did at the time as everyone asked me lol

But, but... surely you have to reform the poll at the behest of us infidels ′Ahl al-Kitab.

[Jolthig]

Quranists are Muslim as long as they recite shada. But yeah, they got ignorant beliefs which results from a misunderstanding of hadith science.


I did at the time as everyone asked me lol

But, but... surely you have to reform the poll at the behest of us infidels ′Ahl al-Kitab.

No ones satisfied with the poll...err.... jk

[Jolthig]

Technically the poll is based from the previous thread.

[The Archregimancy]

Technically the poll is based from the previous thread.

I could be wrong, but I have a vague memory that I might have had a role in generating, or perhaps at least editing, one of the earliest versions of the poll in one of the first versions of the thread.

If so, perhaps I'm this thread's equivalent of an Orthodox Christian doctor in the Bayt al-Hikmah of Harun al-Rashid.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

And why's that?

They aren't Muslim. Or at least their beliefs are kufr.

And you're totally the one to decide that lol. The thread OP is an Ahmadi, ffs. Takfir in general is pretty irrelevant here.

[Jolthig]

Technically the poll is based from the previous thread.

I could be wrong, but I have a vague memory that I might have had a role in generating, or perhaps at least editing, one of the earliest versions of the poll in one of the first versions of the thread.

If so, perhaps I'm this thread's equivalent of an Orthodox Christian doctor in the Bayt al-Hikmah of Harun al-Rashid.

You helped to bring an accurate Arabic numeral.

You and reppy.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They aren't Muslim. Or at least their beliefs are kufr.

And you're totally the one to decide that lol. The thread OP is an Ahmadi, ffs. Takfir in general is pretty irrelevant here.

Considering that takfir is an important and controversial topic in the Ummah, it's not irrelevant.

[Jolthig]

And you're totally the one to decide that lol. The thread OP is an Ahmadi, ffs. Takfir in general is pretty irrelevant here.

Considering that takfir is an important and controversial topic in the Ummah, it's not irrelevant.

The concept of takfir often varies by whatever Islamic view the Muslim passing takfir is adhering to. I know for a fact, we ahmadis dont pass takfir on anyone. If someone claims to be Muslim, but yet, doing practices contrary to the Holy Quran, and sunnah, we simply call them Muslim by name as this is what Muhammad (saw) called the muslims of the latter days, and their "scholars".

[Sahansahiye Iran]

And you're totally the one to decide that lol. The thread OP is an Ahmadi, ffs. Takfir in general is pretty irrelevant here.

Considering that takfir is an important and controversial topic in the Ummah, it's not irrelevant.

It's irrelevant related to the poll. Your opinion on what is valid takfir is irrelevant. You have no such authority. Haven't you passed takfir on Ahmadis before, for that matter?

[Jolthig]

Considering that takfir is an important and controversial topic in the Ummah, it's not irrelevant.

It's irrelevant related to the poll. Your opinion on what is valid takfir is irrelevant. You have no such authority. Haven't you passed takfir on Ahmadis before, for that matter?

He actually hasn't. He has said Mirza Masroor Ahmad isnt a true Khalifa, and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad isnt the Messiah, but he still considers us ahmadis, Muslims. Not to mention, he said he admires the Lahori Ahmadi scholar, Maulana Mohammad Ali.

[Fity Face Mand]

The concept of Takfir in general really doesn't make sense to me. How are you supposed to judge other people on whether or not they're a muslim, when such a thing is between them and Allah (SWT)?

[Jolthig]

The concept of Takfir in general really doesn't make sense to me. How are you supposed to judge other people on whether or not they're a muslim, when such a thing is between them and Allah (SWT)?

Exactly. Even Muhammad (saw) never passed takfir, unless given revelation by Allah (SWT).

We know for a fact, the hypocrites of Medina were pretending to be muslims only because Allah (swt) said in the Holy Quran, but that's it. It's not in our place to pass takfir lest we become arrogsnt.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

It's irrelevant related to the poll. Your opinion on what is valid takfir is irrelevant. You have no such authority. Haven't you passed takfir on Ahmadis before, for that matter?

He actually hasn't. He has said Mirza Masroor Ahmad isnt a true Khalifa, and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad isnt the Messiah, but he still considers us ahmadis, Muslims. Not to mention, he said he admires the Lahori Ahmadi scholar, Maulana Mohammad Ali.

Ah, I see. He's never openly said it but rather toe-danced around it and implied.

viewtopic.php?p=32158916#p32158916

viewtopic.php?p=34341382#p34341382

viewtopic.php?p=33911725#p33911725

Also, let's take a moment to appreciate the hypocrisy of that last link.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The concept of Takfir in general really doesn't make sense to me. How are you supposed to judge other people on whether or not they're a muslim, when such a thing is between them and Allah (SWT)?

Yes, at the end of the day it belongs to Allah SWT. That doesn't mean that some Muslims do stuff that might take out of the fold of Al-Islam. For example, Bekteshi Shi'a Sufis believe that Allah SWT consists of 3 parts. Now wouldn't that take them out of the fold of Al-Islam? Alevis don't care during RamaDaan, wouldn't that take them out of the fold of Al-Islam?

It's irrelevant related to the poll. Your opinion on what is valid takfir is irrelevant. You have no such authority. Haven't you passed takfir on Ahmadis before, for that matter?

He actually hasn't. He has said Mirza Masroor Ahmad isnt a true Khalifa, and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad isnt the Messiah, but he still considers us ahmadis, Muslims.

Yeah, don't put your eggs in 1 basket on that last part.

Not to mention, he said he admires the Lahori Ahmadi scholar, Maulana Mohammad Ali.

What are you talking about? I don't admire any Ahmadi scholars.

The concept of Takfir in general really doesn't make sense to me. How are you supposed to judge other people on whether or not they're a muslim, when such a thing is between them and Allah (SWT)?

Exactly. Even Muhammad (saw) never passed takfir, unless given revelation by Allah (SWT).

There are times when Prophet Muhammad SAWS made takfir of other 'Muslims'.

We know for a fact, the hypocrites of Medina were pretending to be muslims only because Allah (swt) said in the Holy Quran, but that's it. It's not in our place to pass takfir lest we become arrogsnt.

Yeah, there are strict rules for takfir so that it doesn't get overused. But it isn't outright abolished.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=33911725#p33911725

Also, let's take a moment to appreciate the hypocrisy of that last link.

I don't see it.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

lmao Amin even argued it for me. Thanks, mate.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I don't see it.

For something you don't like doing and Muslims shouldn't do much, you've done it like 5 times today alone lmao

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I don't see it.

For something you don't like doing and Muslims shouldn't do much, you've done it like 5 times today alone lmao

5 times? Where?