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The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What denomination of Islam are you part of?

Sunni Islam
121
30%
Sunni Islam (Salafism)
16
4%
Shia Islam
29
7%
Quranist
9
2%
Ahmadiyya
4
1%
Zaydi
8
2%
Ibadist
4
1%
Sufism
22
6%
I do not ascribe to any sect, just call me a Muslim
68
17%
Other
118
30%
 
Total votes : 399

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Negarakita
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Founded: Aug 29, 2017
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Negarakita » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:01 am

Gutulia wrote:
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:The Safavids made it their state religion and converted the nation under their rule.

Yah yah thanks for the answer Sahan! I'm very interested to learn more about Iran

French frei is probably your best bet since he lives there. Also by Syiah, are you indo/malay? I'm interested in Islam from that area.
Proud Member of the Western Isles as Suvurnia. I was Bhikkustan. Speak French (B2 DELF). Unemployed Latin Scholar. I'm going on an AFS exchange to La Suisse.
Crypto-Muslim with Sufi influences. Radical Centrist. Jokowi >>>>>>> Prabowo.
“Use your beautiful religion to beautify yourself. Don't make it worse with your behavior.” ― KH. Mustofa Bisri
إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ - 15/3/19‎

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Samudera Darussalam
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Postby Samudera Darussalam » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:42 am

Jolthig wrote:
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Jummah mubarak, and may you have a bright day in this joyful occasion :p
I found it actually surprising to know that you are in fact not much older than myself.

How old are you?

I'll send a tg about that.
Last edited by Samudera Darussalam on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:04 am

Jumu'ah Mubarak, Happy birthday Jolthig, and Assalamu 'Alaikum wa RaHmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Gutulia :)
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:11 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Jumu'ah Mubarak, Happy birthday Jolthig, and Assalamu 'Alaikum wa RaHmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Gutulia :)

Walakium salaam wa ramatullah wa barakatu

JazakAllah.
Last edited by Jolthig on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gutulia
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Founded: Jan 05, 2019
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Postby Gutulia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:42 pm

Negarakita wrote:
Gutulia wrote:Yah yah thanks for the answer Sahan! I'm very interested to learn more about Iran

French frei is probably your best bet since he lives there. Also by Syiah, are you indo/malay? I'm interested in Islam from that area.

I'm an Indonesian Muslim brother. Islamic worship activities in Indonesia are always crowded especially during the month of Ramadan
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Gutulia
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Postby Gutulia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:44 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Jumu'ah Mubarak, Happy birthday Jolthig, and Assalamu 'Alaikum wa RaHmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Gutulia :)

Wa'alaikumsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh El-Amin
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Negarakita
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby Negarakita » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:03 pm

Gutulia wrote:
Negarakita wrote:French frei is probably your best bet since he lives there. Also by Syiah, are you indo/malay? I'm interested in Islam from that area.

I'm an Indonesian Muslim brother. Islamic worship activities in Indonesia are always crowded especially during the month of Ramadan

What are your thoughts on the Muhammadiyah (and NU I guess as well)? I find them very cool and like a lot of what they do, but you never really know from what you read on wikipedia+the google translated version of their website.
Proud Member of the Western Isles as Suvurnia. I was Bhikkustan. Speak French (B2 DELF). Unemployed Latin Scholar. I'm going on an AFS exchange to La Suisse.
Crypto-Muslim with Sufi influences. Radical Centrist. Jokowi >>>>>>> Prabowo.
“Use your beautiful religion to beautify yourself. Don't make it worse with your behavior.” ― KH. Mustofa Bisri
إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ - 15/3/19‎

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Gutulia
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Founded: Jan 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gutulia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:48 pm

Negarakita wrote:
Gutulia wrote:I'm an Indonesian Muslim brother. Islamic worship activities in Indonesia are always crowded especially during the month of Ramadan

What are your thoughts on the Muhammadiyah (and NU I guess as well)? I find them very cool and like a lot of what they do, but you never really know from what you read on wikipedia+the google translated version of their website.

both of them are the largest Islamic organizations in Indonesia. between them, only Nahdlatul Ulama have the biggest followers likes me. Actually, in Indonesia, it doesn't matter if you are a Muhammadiyah or nu you will remain Islam as long as you believe in Allah, the god of the universe. there are some differences between Muhammadiyah and Nahdlatul ulama that I read from various sources.

Tarawih (Salat in Ramadhan night)
Nahdlatul Ulama: 20 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir
Muhammadiyah: 8 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir

Qunut
Nahdlatul Ulama: use qunut while Salat subuh
Muhammadiyah: not use qunut

and also Nahdlatul Ulama is affiliated with political parties in Indonesia while Muhammadiyah is not affiliated with political parties and only focuses on developing modern Islamic education such as western education patterns but with additional Islamic teachings, therefore it is no stranger to often see schools established by Muhammadiyah in Indonesia . while Nahdlatul Ulama education is more focused on Pesantren schools

I am actually amazed by Muhammadiyah followers. Mostly, they are intelligent and highly educated people because supported by a good education system along with the implementation of Islamic values in daily activities
Last edited by Gutulia on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Eternal Aulus
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Founded: Sep 10, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Eternal Aulus » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:06 am

Gutulia wrote:
Negarakita wrote:What are your thoughts on the Muhammadiyah (and NU I guess as well)? I find them very cool and like a lot of what they do, but you never really know from what you read on wikipedia+the google translated version of their website.

both of them are the largest Islamic organizations in Indonesia. between them, only Nahdlatul Ulama have the biggest followers likes me. Actually, in Indonesia, it doesn't matter if you are a Muhammadiyah or nu you will remain Islam as long as you believe in Allah, the god of the universe. there are some differences between Muhammadiyah and Nahdlatul ulama that I read from various sources.

Tarawih (Salat in Ramadhan night)
Nahdlatul Ulama: 20 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir
Muhammadiyah: 8 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir

Qunut
Nahdlatul Ulama: use qunut while Salat subuh
Muhammadiyah: not use qunut

and also Nahdlatul Ulama is affiliated with political parties in Indonesia while Muhammadiyah is not affiliated with political parties and only focuses on developing modern Islamic education such as western education patterns but with additional Islamic teachings, therefore it is no stranger to often see schools established by Muhammadiyah in Indonesia . while Nahdlatul Ulama education is more focused on Pesantren schools

I am actually amazed by Muhammadiyah followers. Mostly, they are intelligent and highly educated people because supported by a good education system along with the implementation of Islamic values in daily activities

Very interesting. Is there any Indonesian Islamic organization that you think will cause trouble in the Islamic community to come? With that I mean an organization which goes against mainstream opinion or is too ''liberal'' or ''conservative'' for the average Muslim in Indonesia?
Last edited by The Eternal Aulus on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Grims
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Grims » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:09 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Grims wrote:I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

That's not why they're haram.


But it makes Mohammed look so human and likeable :(

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Gospel Power
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Gospel Power » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:11 am

How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.
"Traditionalism is the most revolutionary ideology of our times" ~ Julius Evola
PolitiScales:
http://www.politiscales.net/en_US/resul ... 67&reli=67
We created our own ideology:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=gos ... id=1139576

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The Eternal Aulus
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Postby The Eternal Aulus » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:22 am

Gospel Power wrote:How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

Again it very depends on whom you ask, the groups differ hugely. But here is a good read.

Note that, just as in Christianity, man is seen as viceregent on earth. What that means however, depends on interprentation. Some think it's about preserving, others about using its resources to the most efficiency.
Last edited by The Eternal Aulus on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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And, behold, with every hardship comes ease: - Quran 94:5
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Saranidia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Saranidia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:30 am

Gospel Power wrote:How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

Islam teaches that mankind are stewards(Khalifah) of the environment.
As Quran 2:30 teaches.

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The Eternal Aulus
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Postby The Eternal Aulus » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:42 am

Saranidia wrote:
Gospel Power wrote:How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

Islam teaches that mankind are stewards(Khalifah) of the environment.
As Quran 2:30 teaches.

Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;

Note 22 (Quran Ref: 2:30 )

Lit., "establish on earth a successor" or a "vice-gerent". The term khalifah -derived from the verb khalafa, "he succeeded [another] " - is used in this allegory to denote man's rightful supremacy on earth, which is most suitably rendered by the expression "he shall inherit the earth" (in the sense of being given possession of it). See also 6:165, 27:62 and 35:39, where all human beings are - spoken of as khala'if al-ard.(Quran Ref: 2:30 )
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Frievolk
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Postby Frievolk » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:44 am

The Eternal Aulus wrote:
Saranidia wrote:Islam teaches that mankind are stewards(Khalifah) of the environment.
As Quran 2:30 teaches.

Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;

Note 22 (Quran Ref: 2:30 )

Lit., "establish on earth a successor" or a "vice-gerent". The term khalifah -derived from the verb khalafa, "he succeeded [another] " - is used in this allegory to denote man's rightful supremacy on earth, which is most suitably rendered by the expression "he shall inherit the earth" (in the sense of being given possession of it). See also 6:165, 27:62 and 35:39, where all human beings are - spoken of as khala'if al-ard.(Quran Ref: 2:30 )

Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"
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The Eternal Aulus
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Postby The Eternal Aulus » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:45 am

Frievolk wrote:
The Eternal Aulus wrote:Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;


Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"

That's why I said that the word ''vicegerent'' can have different implications, depending on whom you ask. Nevertheless I do think that it's, these days, more interpreted in environmentalist terms.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:22 am

Frievolk wrote:
The Eternal Aulus wrote:Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;


Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"

Actually no. There isn't any contradiction so as long as man is obedient to Allah and takes care of his earth. The reason why men are khalifeen is because according to the Quran, being given worldly things and prospering from it is a trial. If man fails, like Adam did, consequences occur (obviously I dont believe Adam caused all of mankind to sin as I believe the whole story to be a good allegory). Man is still personally responsible for maintaining this earth much like how a government is responsible for maintaining its citizens.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:26 am

Gospel Power wrote:How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

The environment should be taken care of as humanity are God's servants. Like for example, cleanliness is a part of faith, and Muslims should strive to keep their environments clean (i.e. physical, personal, spiritual, etc.)
Ahmadi Muslim • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • social democrat • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan

Islamic Literature by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
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Currently logged off of NS to observe the Islamic month of Ramadan, and will not return until June 4th. May Allah bless you all.

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Frievolk
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Postby Frievolk » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:30 am

Jolthig wrote:
Gospel Power wrote:How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

The environment should be taken care of as humanity are God's servants. Like for example, cleanliness is a part of faith, and Muslims should strive to keep their environments clean (i.e. physical, personal, spiritual, etc.)

Friendly reminder that like most people, I am no one's "Abd" (i.e. Slave)
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Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.

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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:32 am

Frievolk wrote:
Jolthig wrote:The environment should be taken care of as humanity are God's servants. Like for example, cleanliness is a part of faith, and Muslims should strive to keep their environments clean (i.e. physical, personal, spiritual, etc.)

Friendly reminder that like most people, I am no one's "Abd" (i.e. Slave)

According to the Quran, you are. :P

Not in the sense that you are a Muslim, rather, because every single particle submits to Allah and you have full permission from Allah to be atheist due to free will. :P

Abdullah Frievolk. :p
Ahmadi Muslim • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • social democrat • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan

Islamic Literature by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
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Currently logged off of NS to observe the Islamic month of Ramadan, and will not return until June 4th. May Allah bless you all.

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Frievolk
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Frievolk » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:37 am

Jolthig wrote:
Frievolk wrote:Friendly reminder that like most people, I am no one's "Abd" (i.e. Slave)

According to the Quran, you are. :P

Not in the sense that you are a Muslim, rather, because every single particle submits to Allah and you have full permission from Allah to be atheist due to free will. :P

Abdullah Frievolk. :p

That's precisely one of my problems with Islam. One that, of course, our Arabic teachers oh-so-wonderfully averted by translating عبد as بنده rather than the correct translation of برده (The two words mean pretty much the same, but the first word is often used as a way of referring to self [which of course has its origin in the oppression of Iranians by the Arabs this last 1400 years but I digress] so it didn't have that undertone. It took me 5 years to actually comprehend that it means "slave", not "servant".)
I mean, sure, it makes sense (especially when you take into account the fact the religion's very name literally means Submission) and at the time it was created (roughly 1400 years ago) maybe it was the norm but honestly? To suggest Humans are slaves is inherently insulting, to say the least.
Last edited by Frievolk on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
OOC
Libertarian Constitutionalist
Part-time Anarchist
Anti-Monotheist
Iranian Nationalist
Templates
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.

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Jolthig
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Posts: 12703
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:41 am

Frievolk wrote:
Jolthig wrote:According to the Quran, you are. :P

Not in the sense that you are a Muslim, rather, because every single particle submits to Allah and you have full permission from Allah to be atheist due to free will. :P

Abdullah Frievolk. :p

That's precisely one of my problems with Islam. One that, of course, our Arabic teachers oh-so-wonderfully averted by translating عبد as بنده rather than the correct translation of برده (The two words mean pretty much the same, but the first word is often used as a way of referring to self [which of course has its origin in the oppression of Iranians by the Arabs this last 1400 years but I digress] so it didn't have that undertone. It took me 5 years to actually comprehend that it means "slave", not "servant".)
I mean, sure, it makes sense (especially when you take into account the fact the religion's very name literally means Submission) and at the time it was created (roughly 1400 years ago) maybe it was the norm but honestly? To suggest Humans are slaves is inherently insulting, to say the least.

Servant can also go hand and hand with slave. Either way is fine according to the Arabic. Because of someone says, "You are now my servant and you will do whatever I command." I take servant to mean slavery. Especially in the context of Abd. Because the person, who ever they are assigned to, is serving someone and doing whatever they want them to do. Which is also the definition of slave. I understand your view though, knowing your political ideals.
Ahmadi Muslim • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • social democrat • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan

Islamic Literature by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
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Currently logged off of NS to observe the Islamic month of Ramadan, and will not return until June 4th. May Allah bless you all.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Democratic Socialists

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:26 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:believes only in the god of the jews.

Allah SWT is the God of all creation, not just Jews.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
Scroll down to The Archregimancy's post. This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't ban anyone who uses kafir.
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

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Saranidia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Saranidia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:48 pm

Frievolk wrote:
The Eternal Aulus wrote:Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;


Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"

The angels expressed concern at the spread of corruption and death

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Saranidia
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Founded: Sep 14, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Saranidia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:50 pm

Saranidia wrote:
Frievolk wrote:Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"

The angels expressed concern at the spread of corruption and death

Also trees are praised for support of animals and people “There is none amongst the Muslims who plants a tree or sows seeds, and then a bird, or a person or an animal eats from it, but is regarded as a charitable gift for him."

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