The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Where?

I've no clue. It's just some old legend that's repeated.

So it's not a Hadith?

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I've no clue. It's just some old legend that's repeated.

So it's not a Hadith?

Did I say it was...? I said "it's said".

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So it's not a Hadith?

Did I say it was...? I said "it's said".

Never said you did, I was asking a question.

[A m e n r i a]

Depends on the denomination tbh. The twelvers pretty much consider touching it to break Wudu or Qusl too.

Woa, is that so? I never knew : /

---

Pretty much my opinion on this is similar to Jolthig, as far as I know......I guess the real problem is the saliva, isn't?

What about the saliva of foxes and wolves?

[The Grims]

Mohammed was a catlover, wasn't he ?

Yes, he was.

I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

[A m e n r i a]

Yes, he was.

I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

You'll change your mind once you know how the first dog was made and why its saliva carries bacteria and diseases.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

You'll change your mind once you know how the first dog was made and why its saliva carries bacteria and diseases.

Well, the first dog is fairly complicated but they came a bit over 10,000 years ago from domestication of wolves by human hunter-gatherers. This timeline and the like arises from artifacts and distinct remains of dogs in conjunction with those of early humans. But lemme guess. You're just gonna throw an ayah or hadith at me instead and claim that as irrefutable proof.

As for their saliva, that reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of it. Now, everyone knows that the old story that dog mouths are cleaner than those if humans is a myth. However, you are extremely unlikely to get sick from a dog's saliva. See, dog and human mouths have different types of bacteria that are largely species specific. For instance, dog mouths contain a porphyromonas called P. gulae, whereas human mouths contain its relative, P. gingivalis. And most respiratory infections in humans are caused by viruses. Which are, again, species specific. You're more likely to get sick from kissing a fellow human than you are from a dog licking your face.

In addition to all this fun stuff, petting a dog can even be healthy. Studies have shown that petting pet dogs can lead to lowered hormonal stress levels and lowered blood pressure. Plus, they're adorable, mate. Come on.

[Frievolk]

You'll change your mind once you know how the first dog was made and why its saliva carries bacteria and diseases.

Well, the first dog is fairly complicated but they came a bit over 10,000 years ago from domestication of wolves by human hunter-gatherers. This timeline and the like arises from artifacts and distinct remains of dogs in conjunction with those of early humans. But lemme guess. You're just gonna throw an ayah or hadith at me instead and claim that as irrefutable proof.

As for their saliva, that reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of it. Now, everyone knows that the old story that dog mouths are cleaner than those if humans is a myth. However, you are extremely unlikely to get sick from a dog's saliva. See, dog and human mouths have different types of bacteria that are largely species specific. For instance, dog mouths contain a porphyromonas called P. gulae, whereas human mouths contain its relative, P. gingivalis. And most respiratory infections in humans are caused by viruses. Which are, again, species specific. You're more likely to get sick from kissing a fellow human than you are from a dog licking your face.

In addition to all this fun stuff, petting a dog can even be healthy. Studies have shown that petting pet dogs can lead to lowered hormonal stress levels and lowered blood pressure. Plus, they're adorable, mate. Come on.

I actually thought it was a lot earlier than 10k years ago tbh.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Well, the first dog is fairly complicated but they came a bit over 10,000 years ago from domestication of wolves by human hunter-gatherers. This timeline and the like arises from artifacts and distinct remains of dogs in conjunction with those of early humans. But lemme guess. You're just gonna throw an ayah or hadith at me instead and claim that as irrefutable proof.

As for their saliva, that reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of it. Now, everyone knows that the old story that dog mouths are cleaner than those if humans is a myth. However, you are extremely unlikely to get sick from a dog's saliva. See, dog and human mouths have different types of bacteria that are largely species specific. For instance, dog mouths contain a porphyromonas called P. gulae, whereas human mouths contain its relative, P. gingivalis. And most respiratory infections in humans are caused by viruses. Which are, again, species specific. You're more likely to get sick from kissing a fellow human than you are from a dog licking your face.

In addition to all this fun stuff, petting a dog can even be healthy. Studies have shown that petting pet dogs can lead to lowered hormonal stress levels and lowered blood pressure. Plus, they're adorable, mate. Come on.

I actually thought it was a lot earlier than 10k years ago tbh.

14,000 to 6,000 YBP. I just picked a middle number for ease.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yes, he was.

I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

That's not why they're haram.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Woa, is that so? I never knew : /

---

Pretty much my opinion on this is similar to Jolthig, as far as I know......I guess the real problem is the saliva, isn't?

What about the saliva of foxes and wolves?

I haven't read any ruling on them (foxes and wolves) so I can't give you an answer.

[Saranidia]

Yes, he was.

I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

It’s not haram to be nice to animals even if they’re unclean as far as I am aware.
Where in the Quran and sunnah are dogs called unclean?
Quran 18:18 mentions the companions of the cave having a dog
In my opinion meaning they are not unclean.
Cats are adorable though and show affection in their own way:
I had a pet cat called Cleopatra.
Saliva is generally unclean though.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

It’s not haram to be nice to animals even if they’re unclean as far as I am aware.
Where in the Quran and sunnah are dogs called unclean?

https://sunnah.com/urn/1273090
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/72/6

Quran 18:18 mentions the companions of the cave having a dog
In my opinion meaning they are not unclean.

Again, Prophet Muhammad SAWS fulfilled the Message of Al-Islam, and what he established is the final Shari'ah.

[Jolthig]

It’s not haram to be nice to animals even if they’re unclean as far as I am aware.
Where in the Quran and sunnah are dogs called unclean?

https://sunnah.com/urn/1273090
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/72/6

Eh, I wouldn't narrate a hadith just because it says "kill dogs" purely based on Riwayat alone. That's just unreasonable. Hence, the principles of Dirayat should also be applied when analyzing hadiths like these.

For example, in Jammi'at Tirmidhi 79, it says:

In a gathering, Abū Hurairahra mentioned that the Holy Prophet would state that after the use of anything which is touched [cooked] by fire, ablution becomes obligatory. Upon this, Ibni ‘Abbāsra interjected and said, “Should we
then perform ablution after the use of butter or oil? Shall we perform ablution after the use of boiling water?” After writing this narration, Imām Tirmidhīrh states that among the Muslims, “A majority of the scholars are united in the
belief that ablution is not necessary after the use of something which has been prepared over fire.”

In another narration, we find in Sahih Bukhari 1186:

Maḥmūd bin Ar-Rabī‘ narrates that I heard from ‘Itbān bin Mālik that the Prophet of Allāh said, Allāh the Exalted has prohibited the fire of hell upon all those who in full sincerity and to seek the pleasure of God alone, declare that there is none worthy of worship except Allāh. Maḥmūdra added, I told the above narration to some people in a gathering where Abū Ayyūbra was also present. Abū Ayyūbra denounced the narration and said, “By God, I cannot at all presume that the Holy Prophet might have said so.”

There has to be a specific context for why Muhammad (saw) ordered dogs to be killed in Ibn Majah because another hadith in Bukhari states:

“A man travelling along a road felt extremely thirsty and went down a well and drank. When he came up he saw a dog panting with thirst and licking the moist earth. ‘This animal’, the man said, ‘is suffering from thirst just as much as I was.’ So he went down the well again, filled his shoe with water, and taking it in his teeth, climbed out of the well and gave the water to the dog. God was pleased with his act and granted him pardon for his sins.”

I'd be more than happy to research the hadiths you mentioned over time.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

1: Correction: it wasn't finalised then. More on that in the Islamic Discussion Thread if you wanna learn about that.
2: Aquaman was part mermaid part human and lived on the surface. So if that's me, I'd probs have a familiarity with Al-Islam (and if I was adopted into a Muslim family that's even more connection and a plus)
3: Good gosh man have an imagination!

1: If you try telling me that Islam has been around for 9,600 years, I will laugh right in your face.

Good thing I wasn't, then.

[Jolthig]

Happy 20th birthday to me on this day of the 11th.

Also, Jummah mubarak.

[Saranidia]

https://sunnah.com/urn/1273090
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/72/6

Eh, I wouldn't narrate a hadith just because it says "kill dogs" purely based on Riwayat alone. That's just unreasonable. Hence, the principles of Dirayat should also be applied when analyzing hadiths like these.

For example, in Jammi'at Tirmidhi 79, it says:

In a gathering, Abū Hurairahra mentioned that the Holy Prophet would state that after the use of anything which is touched [cooked] by fire, ablution becomes obligatory. Upon this, Ibni ‘Abbāsra interjected and said, “Should we
then perform ablution after the use of butter or oil? Shall we perform ablution after the use of boiling water?” After writing this narration, Imām Tirmidhīrh states that among the Muslims, “A majority of the scholars are united in the
belief that ablution is not necessary after the use of something which has been prepared over fire.”

In another narration, we find in Sahih Bukhari 1186:

Maḥmūd bin Ar-Rabī‘ narrates that I heard from ‘Itbān bin Mālik that the Prophet of Allāh said, Allāh the Exalted has prohibited the fire of hell upon all those who in full sincerity and to seek the pleasure of God alone, declare that there is none worthy of worship except Allāh. Maḥmūdra added, I told the above narration to some people in a gathering where Abū Ayyūbra was also present. Abū Ayyūbra denounced the narration and said, “By God, I cannot at all presume that the Holy Prophet might have said so.”

There has to be a specific context for why Muhammad (saw) ordered dogs to be killed in Ibn Majah because another hadith in Bukhari states:

“A man travelling along a road felt extremely thirsty and went down a well and drank. When he came up he saw a dog panting with thirst and licking the moist earth. ‘This animal’, the man said, ‘is suffering from thirst just as much as I was.’ So he went down the well again, filled his shoe with water, and taking it in his teeth, climbed out of the well and gave the water to the dog. God was pleased with his act and granted him pardon for his sins.”

I'd be more than happy to research the hadiths you mentioned over time.

Can you give a link to the Hadith about giving water to the dog?

[Samudera Darussalam]

Happy 20th birthday to me on this day of the 11th.

Also, Jummah mubarak.

Jummah mubarak, and may you have a bright day in this joyful occasion
I found it actually surprising to know that you are in fact not much older than myself.

[Jolthig]

Happy 20th birthday to me on this day of the 11th.

Also, Jummah mubarak.

Jummah mubarak, and may you have a bright day in this joyful occasion
I found it actually surprising to know that you are in fact not much older than myself.

How old are you?

[Gutulia]

Happy 20th birthday to me on this day of the 11th.

Also, Jummah mubarak.

Barakallahu fi umrik

[Gutulia]

Because this is a discussion thread, I have a question to all. why only Syiah have many followers in Iran ?

[Frievolk]

Because this is a discussion thread, I have a question to all. why only Syiah have many followers in Iran ?

There are a fuckload of Shia in Iraq too. Iran, in particular, is Shia due to history. Specifically, everything that happened after the Safavid dynasty.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Because this is a discussion thread, I have a question to all. why only Syiah have many followers in Iran ?

The Safavids made it their state religion and converted the nation under their rule.

[Jolthig]

Because this is a discussion thread, I have a question to all. why only Syiah have many followers in Iran ?

There are a fuckload of Shia in Iraq too. Iran, in particular, is Shia due to history. Specifically, everything that happened after the Safavid dynasty.

Yup. There were a lot of religious politics involved around the time the Safavids converted to Shia. The Ottomans, to please the strict Sunni ulama at the time, persecuted Shiites, forcing them to migrate to states that aren't hostile to Shiites.

[Gutulia]

Because this is a discussion thread, I have a question to all. why only Syiah have many followers in Iran?

There is a fuckload of Shia in Iraq too. Iran, in particular, is Shia due to history. Specifically, everything that happened after the Safavid dynasty.

I am a bit surprised, even though around Iran are Sunni countries but I am also not sure because I don't know that