NationStates

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:09 am**

The Alma Mater wrote:
A m e n r i a wrote:
And the fact. If God was merely powerful and not omnipotent, how did He create the universe?

IIRC the OLDEST creation story (and therefor the one closest to the actual source) involved him giving himself a blowjob after willing himself into existence.
Of course, that was about Amun-Ra, not the God of Abraham. Nobody had even heard of that guy until several millenia later.

Brahma (who also vastly predated Allah) just built it. He was however far from omnipotent; hence why Vishnu en Shiva also exist.

The ancient Greeks are a bit vague about the universe, but life on earth once again involved the spilling of divine seed. The Norse pantheon involved the armpit hairs of a giant encased in ice until freed by a goat. Etc.

It seems most religions agree that omnipotence is not needed to create something.

Omnipotence is probably a deterrent for that tbh

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:10 am**

Saranidia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm what that has to do with what I said. Anyway, the reason is because of this: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/92/50

But Bilqis eventually lead her people to monotheism as a ruler and as far as I can tell she never gave up queenship. Saying “I submit to Solomon” doesn’t count as he was a prophet.

Yes, that was another time in history. Prophet Muhammad SAWS is khaatamun-Nabiyyin, so he brought the final message and law to the world.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:59 am**

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Saranidia wrote:Why can’t women be Khalifah?
Quran 3:195

I'm what that has to do with what I said. Anyway, the reason is because of this: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/92/50

"Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

The existence of powerful female rulers who made their nations great disproves this.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:43 am**

Jolthig wrote:
A m e n r i a wrote:
The second sentence would disregard the fact that an angel did came to Muhammad. What do you call a genderless, emotionless, winged creature made of light? No, not a hallucination because it was real.

Angels are of the unseen. Belief in the unseen cannot come without belief in God. Because belief in God comes first before everything else in Islam.

We can argue for the possibility of the existence of God in an argument, but not God himself. Proof of God comes through divine revelation. This is how every single prophet knew God is real.

So you're saying that revelation is the only 'proof' of God? So what reason are the rest of us left with?

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:02 am**

What prophecies did Muhammed make then ? Wikipedia is a mess and only has nonconvincing prophecies like "you will die in battle, general".

And did he make prophecies that did not come true?

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:36 am**

Salaam Alaikum

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:52 am**

The Grims wrote:What prophecies did Muhammed make then ? Wikipedia is a mess and only has nonconvincing prophecies like "you will die in battle, general".

And did he make prophecies that did not come true?

He prophesied a Roman/Byzantine victory then defeat, he predicted the conversion of the Quraysh and other groups, "you will die in battle" isn't necessarily a free prediction when you think about generals dying of poison, disease or , after retirement from actual battle, old age.
He possibly predicted the expanding universe even.

This suggests a prophet or at least an intelligent man.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:54 am**

Saranidia wrote:
The Grims wrote:What prophecies did Muhammed make then ? Wikipedia is a mess and only has nonconvincing prophecies like "you will die in battle, general".

And did he make prophecies that did not come true?

He prophesied a Roman/Byzantine victory then defeat, he predicted the conversion of the Quraysh and other groups, "you will die in battle" isn't necessarily a free prediction when you think about generals dying of poison, disease or , after retirement from actual battle, old age.
He possibly predicted the expanding universe even.

This suggests a prophet or at least an intelligent man.

Dunno. Reckon I could have predicted that. Not exactly wild or specific are they.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:28 am**

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Saranidia wrote:Why can’t women be Khalifah?
Quran 3:195

I'm what that has to do with what I said. Anyway, the reason is because of this: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/92/50

That seems pretty misogynistic ngl.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:28 am**

Saranidia wrote:
The Grims wrote:What prophecies did Muhammed make then ? Wikipedia is a mess and only has nonconvincing prophecies like "you will die in battle, general".

And did he make prophecies that did not come true?

He prophesied a Roman/Byzantine victory then defeat, he predicted the conversion of the Quraysh and other groups, "you will die in battle" isn't necessarily a free prediction when you think about generals dying of poison, disease or , after retirement from actual battle, old age.
He possibly predicted the expanding universe even.

This suggests a prophet or at least an intelligent man.

Well the Roman'ds have had defeats after victories before so that's not a prophesy so much as a past trend, and warlords do have a tendency to die in battle so again not all that impressive.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:30 am**

Alvecia wrote:
Saranidia wrote:He prophesied a Roman/Byzantine victory then defeat, he predicted the conversion of the Quraysh and other groups, "you will die in battle" isn't necessarily a free prediction when you think about generals dying of poison, disease or , after retirement from actual battle, old age.
He possibly predicted the expanding universe even.

This suggests a prophet or at least an intelligent man.

Dunno. Reckon I could have predicted that. Not exactly wild or specific are they.

The thing about prophecies is that they have to be overly vague or else they end up being disproven.
Here in the US we've had several end times prophecies in the last few years with exact dates.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:37 am**

Genivaria wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Dunno. Reckon I could have predicted that. Not exactly wild or specific are they.

The thing about prophecies is that they have to be overly vague or else they end up being disproven.
Here in the US we've had several end times prophecies in the last few years with exact dates.

People tend to happily forget all the wrong prophecies though.

Relevant:
https://youtu.be/3KDnrGdpNZY

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:43 am**

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm what that has to do with what I said. Anyway, the reason is because of this: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/92/50

That seems pretty misogynistic ngl.

*really*. You're surprised Muhammad was a mysognist?

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:45 am**

Frievolk wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:That seems pretty misogynistic ngl.

*really*. You're surprised Muhammad was a mysognist?

No, but I was surprised Amin was until I remembered that he was from nearly all the previous interactions I'd had with him.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:46 am**

The Grims wrote:
Genivaria wrote:The thing about prophecies is that they have to be overly vague or else they end up being disproven.
Here in the US we've had several end times prophecies in the last few years with exact dates.

People tend to happily forget all the wrong prophecies though.

Relevant:
https://youtu.be/3KDnrGdpNZY

“Remember the hits, forget the misses”

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:47 am**

The Grims wrote:
Genivaria wrote:The thing about prophecies is that they have to be overly vague or else they end up being disproven.
Here in the US we've had several end times prophecies in the last few years with exact dates.

People tend to happily forget all the wrong prophecies though.

Relevant:
https://youtu.be/3KDnrGdpNZY

It's just the Texan Sharpshooter. The Religious are known for using it extensively.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:56 am**

Frievolk wrote:
The Grims wrote:
People tend to happily forget all the wrong prophecies though.

Relevant:
https://youtu.be/3KDnrGdpNZY

It's just the Texan Sharpshooter. The Religious are known for using it extensively.

Are there are prophecies of Muhammad that were proven to be wrong?

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:40 am**

Genivaria wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Angels are of the unseen. Belief in the unseen cannot come without belief in God. Because belief in God comes first before everything else in Islam.

We can argue for the possibility of the existence of God in an argument, but not God himself. Proof of God comes through divine revelation. This is how every single prophet knew God is real.

So you're saying that revelation is the only 'proof' of God? So what reason are the rest of us left with?

It is up to you guys to accept. Prophets only convey the message, and Allah in turn, gives permission to those who wish to believe or vice versa.

Revelation assures someone of the absolute existence of God.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:41 am**

Genivaria wrote:
Saranidia wrote:He prophesied a Roman/Byzantine victory then defeat, he predicted the conversion of the Quraysh and other groups, "you will die in battle" isn't necessarily a free prediction when you think about generals dying of poison, disease or , after retirement from actual battle, old age.
He possibly predicted the expanding universe even.

This suggests a prophet or at least an intelligent man.

Well the Roman'ds have had defeats after victories before so that's not a prophesy so much as a past trend, and warlords do have a tendency to die in battle so again not all that impressive.

The point of that prophecy was to give a sign to the Arabs of the truthfulness of Muhammad. That and it being connected with Muhammad and the Musliks overthrowing pagan power in Arabia.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:01 am**

Genivaria wrote:
Saranidia wrote:He prophesied a Roman/Byzantine victory then defeat, he predicted the conversion of the Quraysh and other groups, "you will die in battle" isn't necessarily a free prediction when you think about generals dying of poison, disease or , after retirement from actual battle, old age.
He possibly predicted the expanding universe even.

This suggests a prophet or at least an intelligent man.

Well the Roman'ds have had defeats after victories before so that's not a prophesy so much as a past trend, and warlords do have a tendency to die in battle so again not all that impressive.

I thought it was a general not a warlord.
Also that was a particularly defeat after a particular victory,

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:12 am**

Saranidia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Well the Roman'ds have had defeats after victories before so that's not a prophesy so much as a past trend, and warlords do have a tendency to die in battle so again not all that impressive.

I thought it was a general not a warlord.
Also that was a particularly defeat after a particular victory,

There's very little difference between a warlord and a general. Especially in Arabia at the time.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:23 am**

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Saranidia wrote:But Bilqis eventually lead her people to monotheism as a ruler and as far as I can tell she never gave up queenship. Saying “I submit to Solomon” doesn’t count as he was a prophet.

Yes, that was another time in history. Prophet Muhammad SAWS is khaatamun-Nabiyyin, so he brought the final message and law to the world.

True.
What is the reason that hadith opposes a female caliph?

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:23 am**

Frievolk wrote:
The Grims wrote:
People tend to happily forget all the wrong prophecies though.

Relevant:
https://youtu.be/3KDnrGdpNZY

It's just the Texan Sharpshooter. The Religious are known for using it extensively.

When was one of Muhammad’s prophecies in the Quran proven false?

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:53 am**

Saranidia wrote:
Frievolk wrote:It's just the Texan Sharpshooter. The Religious are known for using it extensively.

Are there are prophecies of Muhammad that were proven to be wrong?

Are there any specific ones that actually came true?
Or that aren't common occurrence?

And let me give you an example of what I mean.
If I claim that it's going to rain tomorrow then it's not that impressive of a prediction, while I am giving a specific date I'm not predicting anything out of the ordinary. I mean it's been raining every other day where I'm at.
However if I were to claim that start snowing tomorrow, and KEEP SNOWING for a straight month, in TEXAS, than that would be an impressive prediction.... If it happened.

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:56 am**

Jolthig wrote:
Genivaria wrote:So you're saying that revelation is the only 'proof' of God? So what reason are the rest of us left with?

It is up to you guys to accept. Prophets only convey the message, and Allah in turn, gives permission to those who wish to believe or vice versa.

Revelation assures someone of the absolute existence of God.

On the contrary it isn't up to me, I am not capable of forcing myself to believe something which I have no reason to believe, I could profess to believe something under threat of violence but my thoughts remain unchanged.

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