The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Khataiy]

Yet again I would like to point to the quote of Khalid Ibn al-Walid and what he said, you are not a Prophet and never will be so to even ask that is absurd

Yet again, are you going to bother to address the first part? Ibn Baz literally said it was alright to kill people who believe in a heliocentric solar system. Come on. I know you're at least better than this.

And good job on dodging yet again. It was merely a hypothetical and you know it. That's just weak.

Like I said I quoted Sheikh Ibn Baz because of his respectable status and his reputation as well learned on the religion, I do not agree with everything he says/did or what every Sheikh says/does that would be foolish and blind Taqlid, and he was wrong on some things and correct on others.

I dodged nothing

[Khataiy]

From an Islamic standpoint yes

But that doesn't mean much.
You can't actually prove that his prediction came from God.

He could have said anything but he didn't he said what he said and I think that is sufficient enough

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Yet again, are you going to bother to address the first part? Ibn Baz literally said it was alright to kill people who believe in a heliocentric solar system. Come on. I know you're at least better than this.

And good job on dodging yet again. It was merely a hypothetical and you know it. That's just weak.

Like I said I quoted Sheikh Ibn Baz because of his respectable status and his reputation as well learned on the religion, I do not agree with everything he says/did or what every Sheikh says/does that would be foolish and blind Taqlid, and he was wrong on some things and correct on others.

I dodged nothing

Yes. You're respected alim who was partially responsible for the ban on women driving in the KSA. The one who takfired those who support basic science. That respected alim. lel

Then why not answer it? It's just a hypothetical. Here. I'll rephrase to allow for you pedantic sensitivities:

If a man born before Muhammad points at an empty space and says that the angel Gabriel is there talking to him, is he hallucinating or receiving revelation? How would you tell?

[Valgora]

But that doesn't mean much.
You can't actually prove that his prediction came from God.

He could have said anything but he didn't he said what he said and I think that is sufficient enough

But it ain't sufficient enough.
He probably did say anything.

Using your logic:
What about the predictions about our modern world made in the book Fahrenheit 451 (1953)? Are his predictions sufficient enough that they're proof they came from God or that he had some kinda knowledge about our world?
He could have written anything, but he didn't. He wrote what he wrote and that is sufficient enough.

[Dahyan]

It's not that I am "dodging" it, it just seems like random ramblings not worthy of attention

The words of the Caliph Umar (RA) are not worthy of attention? Astaghfirullah.

Not that much in this discusion really. He wasn't a Prophet, nor was he Ahlulbayt. And he wasn't universally accepted as Caliph either.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

The words of the Caliph Umar (RA) are not worthy of attention? Astaghfirullah.

Not that much in this discusion really. He wasn't a Prophet, nor was he Ahlulbayt. And he wasn't universally accepted as Caliph either.

Sh. That's irrelevant, Shia I'm working on the assumption that Khataiy does accept him as one, since he called him caliph.

[Khataiy]

Like I said I quoted Sheikh Ibn Baz because of his respectable status and his reputation as well learned on the religion, I do not agree with everything he says/did or what every Sheikh says/does that would be foolish and blind Taqlid, and he was wrong on some things and correct on others.

I dodged nothing

Yes. You're respected alim who was partially responsible for the ban on women driving in the KSA. The one who takfired those who support basic science. That respected alim. lel

Then why not answer it? It's just a hypothetical. Here. I'll rephrase to allow for you pedantic sensitivities:

If a man born before Muhammad points at an empty space and says that the angel Gabriel is there talking to him, is he hallucinating or receiving revelation? How would you tell?

He is very respectable and he cannot be held accountable for his opinions according to Islam as he did nothing wrong with them, he didn't say these things for personal gain he said them because he did his own research and came to these conclusions and it must be respected by Muslims even if you disagree. I disagree with the ban on woman's driving and I have sufficient evidence for it given that during the times of Muhammad and the Companions women would ride mules, camels and horses which are akin to modern day cars and I have no idea why Sheikh Ibn Baz would ban it, but likewise Abu Hanifa said it was haram to eat shell fish while Imam Malik, Shafii and Ibn Hanbal agreed it was Halal such things are common in Islam and we leave it at that and of course God knows best and no one is perfect.

I don't know, because Muhammad was the seal of Prophets so it would be possible with proper signs.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Yes. You're respected alim who was partially responsible for the ban on women driving in the KSA. The one who takfired those who support basic science. That respected alim. lel

Then why not answer it? It's just a hypothetical. Here. I'll rephrase to allow for you pedantic sensitivities:

If a man born before Muhammad points at an empty space and says that the angel Gabriel is there talking to him, is he hallucinating or receiving revelation? How would you tell?

He is very respectable and he cannot be held accountable for his opinions according to Islam as he did nothing wrong with them, he didn't say these things for personal gain he said them because he did his own research and came to these conclusions and it must be respected by Muslims even if you disagree. I disagree with the ban on woman's driving and I have sufficient evidence for it given that during the times of Muhammad and the Companions women would ride mules, camels and horses which are akin to modern day cars and I have no idea why Sheikh Ibn Baz would ban it, but likewise Abu Hanifa said it was haram to eat shell fish while Imam Malik, Shafii and Ibn Hanbal agreed it was Halal such things are common in Islam and we leave it at that and of course God knows best and no one is perfect.

I don't know, because Muhammad was the seal of Prophets so it would be possible with proper signs.

Mate, I've lived in Islamic communities for most of my life and none of them have respected Ibn Baz. I don't know who you've been talking to.

Exactly! You. Don't. Know. So, why would it be obvious, as you claim? If you don't know. Which is it? Is it obvious or do you not know?

[Khataiy]

He is very respectable and he cannot be held accountable for his opinions according to Islam as he did nothing wrong with them, he didn't say these things for personal gain he said them because he did his own research and came to these conclusions and it must be respected by Muslims even if you disagree. I disagree with the ban on woman's driving and I have sufficient evidence for it given that during the times of Muhammad and the Companions women would ride mules, camels and horses which are akin to modern day cars and I have no idea why Sheikh Ibn Baz would ban it, but likewise Abu Hanifa said it was haram to eat shell fish while Imam Malik, Shafii and Ibn Hanbal agreed it was Halal such things are common in Islam and we leave it at that and of course God knows best and no one is perfect.

I don't know, because Muhammad was the seal of Prophets so it would be possible with proper signs.

Mate, I've lived in Islamic communities for most of my life and none of them have respected Ibn Baz. I don't know who you've been talking to.

Exactly! You. Don't. Know. So, why would it be obvious, as you claim? If you don't know. Which is it? Is it obvious or do you not know?

Among scholars he is respected obviously Islamic communities are diverse with opinions, that's just how people are but among academic Islamic circles he is highly respected and among Muslims in general aware of him and to disrespect him or any fellow Muslim would be a sin.

Muhammad had sufficient signs proving he is the messenger of God that go back to the bible

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Mate, I've lived in Islamic communities for most of my life and none of them have respected Ibn Baz. I don't know who you've been talking to.

Exactly! You. Don't. Know. So, why would it be obvious, as you claim? If you don't know. Which is it? Is it obvious or do you not know?

Among scholars he is respected obviously Islamic communities are diverse with opinions, that's just how people are but among academic Islamic circles he is highly respected and among Muslims in general aware of him and to disrespect him or any fellow Muslim would be a sin.

Muhammad had sufficient signs proving he is the messenger of God that go back to the bible

Alright. Provide a source on how respected he is among scholars. Back up your claim.

Like?

[Khataiy]

Among scholars he is respected obviously Islamic communities are diverse with opinions, that's just how people are but among academic Islamic circles he is highly respected and among Muslims in general aware of him and to disrespect him or any fellow Muslim would be a sin.

Muhammad had sufficient signs proving he is the messenger of God that go back to the bible

Alright. Provide a source on how respected he is among scholars. Back up your claim.

Like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8FhEjuLZbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFuIXaBlmK0
Obviously there are more but I'm not going to go around looking for praises of him just to prove his status and respect, I have never met a Muslim who spoke ill of him or didn't hold respect for him nor have I ever heard a scholar denounce him or reject his status

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Alright. Provide a source on how respected he is among scholars. Back up your claim.

Like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8FhEjuLZbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFuIXaBlmK0
Obviously there are more but I'm not going to go around looking for praises of him just to prove his status and respect, I have never met a Muslim who spoke ill of him or didn't hold respect for him nor have I ever heard a scholar denounce him or reject his status

>literal only example is a fellow Wahhabi Saudi alim

lel based

[Khataiy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8FhEjuLZbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFuIXaBlmK0
Obviously there are more but I'm not going to go around looking for praises of him just to prove his status and respect, I have never met a Muslim who spoke ill of him or didn't hold respect for him nor have I ever heard a scholar denounce him or reject his status

>literal only example is a fellow Wahhabi Saudi alim

lel based

you didn't give me an easy task, I have literally said I cannot recall ever talking to a Muslim who denied his knowledge or didn't acknowledge the respect he deserves

[Kowani]

Alright. Provide a source on how respected he is among scholars. Back up your claim.

Like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8FhEjuLZbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFuIXaBlmK0
Obviously there are more but I'm not going to go around looking for praises of him just to prove his status and respect, I have never met a Muslim who spoke ill of him or didn't hold respect for him nor have I ever heard a scholar denounce him or reject his status

It's almost like they face bodily harm if they do so...

[Khataiy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8FhEjuLZbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFuIXaBlmK0
Obviously there are more but I'm not going to go around looking for praises of him just to prove his status and respect, I have never met a Muslim who spoke ill of him or didn't hold respect for him nor have I ever heard a scholar denounce him or reject his status

It's almost like they face bodily harm if they do so...

That's funny

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I cannot recall ever talking to a Muslim who denied his knowledge or didn't acknowledge the respect he deserves

I can. Your anecdotal "evidence" is ridiculous.

[Khataiy]

I cannot recall ever talking to a Muslim who denied his knowledge or didn't acknowledge the respect he deserves

I can. Your anecdote is ridiculous.

Well obviously we had different experiences in life

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I can. Your anecdote is ridiculous.

Well obviously we had different experiences in life

Yeah. I wasn't raised in what is apparently a Wahhabi bubble lol.

[Khataiy]

Well obviously we had different experiences in life

Yeah. I wasn't raised in what is apparently a Wahhabi bubble lol.

Wahhabism is a myth

[Frievolk]

Yeah. I wasn't raised in what is apparently a Wahhabi bubble lol.

Wahhabism is a myth

*blinks*
It really isn't lmao

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Wahhabism is a myth

*blinks*
It really isn't lmao

Honestly, that is probably only in the top 3 most ridiculous things he has said tonight.

[Khataiy]

Wahhabism is a myth

*blinks*
It really isn't lmao

There is no such thing as a "Wahhabi Movement" that is separate from "Orthodox Sunni Islam" there are only varying degrees of interpretation

[Sahansahiye Iran]

*blinks*
It really isn't lmao

There is no such thing as a "Wahhabi Movement" that is separate from "Orthodox Sunni Islam" there are only varying degrees of interpretation

lel wouldn't those degrees make its existence a possibility?

[Frievolk]

*blinks*
It really isn't lmao

There is no such thing as a "Wahhabi Movement" that is separate from "Orthodox Sunni Islam" there are only varying degrees of interpretation

There is no "Orthodoxy" in Sunni Islam in the first place. There are multiple equally valid interpretations (and The interpretation of Ibn-al-Wahhab and his successors isn't one of them)

[Khataiy]

There is no such thing as a "Wahhabi Movement" that is separate from "Orthodox Sunni Islam" there are only varying degrees of interpretation

There is no "Orthodoxy" in Sunni Islam in the first place. There are multiple equally valid interpretations (and The interpretation of Ibn-al-Wahhab and his successors isn't one of them)

Says who? That isn't up for anyone to decide