The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Sahansahiye Iran]

"You have done; And no man has done as you have done. But it is not people who do; It is Allah who does..."

It is not people who do. What happened to choice?

Also, no radhiallahu anhu for the sahabi? Astaghfirullah.

"Also, no radhiallahu anhu for the sahabi? Astaghfirullah." This is irrelevant but it is not obligatory in Islam to use honorifics but highly recommend

Nice job dodging the former part, tho, btw. Based.

[Khataiy]

"Also, no radhiallahu anhu for the sahabi? Astaghfirullah." This is irrelevant but it is not obligatory in Islam to use honorifics but highly recommend

Nice job dodging the former part, tho, btw. Based.

It's not that I am "dodging" it, it just seems like random ramblings not worthy of attention

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Nice job dodging the former part, tho, btw. Based.

It's not that I am "dodging" it, it just seems like random ramblings not worthy of attention

The words of the Caliph Umar (RA) are not worthy of attention? Astaghfirullah.

[Khataiy]

It's not that I am "dodging" it, it just seems like random ramblings not worthy of attention

The words of the Caliph Umar (RA) are not worthy of attention? Astaghfirullah.

Not with the intentions that you are using them

[Valgora]

None of those make women appear naked despite being dressed.

Can you provide some proof of such movements?

Or he had hallucinations or simply just made predictions.

From your perspective no, but that goes back to the prediction of high immorality and its acceptance

But those clothes don't make women appear naked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barelvi

The only thing I can find that's close to what you're talking about, is that they practice veneration of saints. That's far from anything like idolatry and polytheism.

No he didn't

He might have.
You can't prove that God told him.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

The words of the Caliph Umar (RA) are not worthy of attention? Astaghfirullah.

Not with the intentions that you are using them

Want to elaborate on that? Is Umar (RA) not saying that Allah does everything, not humans? Seems like it, tbh. But free will, right?

[Sahansahiye Iran]

From your perspective no, but that goes back to the prediction of high immorality and its acceptance

But those clothes don't make women appear naked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barelvi

The only thing I can find that's close to what you're talking about, is that they practice veneration of saints. That's far from anything like idolatry and polytheism.

No he didn't

He might have.
You can't prove that God told him.

Khataiy appears to be Salafi/Wahhabi, mate. They consider visiting graves to be polytheism. Don't expect much.

[Khataiy]

From your perspective no, but that goes back to the prediction of high immorality and its acceptance

But those clothes don't make women appear naked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barelvi

The only thing I can find that's close to what you're talking about, is that they practice veneration of saints. That's far from anything like idolatry and polytheism.

No he didn't

He might have.
You can't prove that God told him.

In Islam saints are idols but this would require you to have a proper understanding of concepts like Tawhid, as for the women it's obvious you are very set in your view that no matter how revealing the clothing is it doesn't seem naked to you, and no he did not have hallucinations

[Sahansahiye Iran]

no he did not have hallucinations

How do you know?

[Khataiy]

Not with the intentions that you are using them

Want to elaborate on that? Is Umar (RA) not saying that Allah does everything, not humans? Seems like it, tbh. But free will, right?

What I have said stands with what Umar says, what I said was a reiteration of what Sheikh Ibn Baz said

[Khataiy]

no he did not have hallucinations

How do you know?

It would be obvious other wise

[Valgora]

But those clothes don't make women appear naked.



The only thing I can find that's close to what you're talking about, is that they practice veneration of saints. That's far from anything like idolatry and polytheism.

He might have.
You can't prove that God told him.

In Islam saints are idols but this would require you to have a proper understanding of concepts like Tawhid, as for the women it's obvious you are very set in your view that no matter how revealing the clothing is it doesn't seem naked to you, and no he did not have hallucinations

I think even with "proper understanding", veneration of saints would still be pretty far from idolatry. Because veneration of saints doesn't equal worship of idols.
The clothing covers up the parts of the body that would be required to be exposed to be considered naked.

He still could have hallucinated. I can't prove it, so I'll end that hypothesis.
But you can't prove his predictions were because of God.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Want to elaborate on that? Is Umar (RA) not saying that Allah does everything, not humans? Seems like it, tbh. But free will, right?

What I have said stands with what Umar says, what I said was a reiteration of what Sheikh Ibn Baz said

Are you sure you're not Wahhabi? You sure are quoting Ibn Baz a lot.

How do you know?

It would be obvious other wise

How exactly?

[Khataiy]

In Islam saints are idols but this would require you to have a proper understanding of concepts like Tawhid, as for the women it's obvious you are very set in your view that no matter how revealing the clothing is it doesn't seem naked to you, and no he did not have hallucinations

I think even with "proper understanding", veneration of saints would still be pretty far from idolatry. Because veneration of saints doesn't equal worship of idols.
The clothing covers up the parts of the body that would be required to be exposed to be considered naked.

He still could have hallucinated. I can't prove it, so I'll end that hypothesis.
But you can't prove his predictions were because of God.

This is going in a circle and going no where, it's obvious it's not getting through to you, so have a nice day I guess.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I think even with "proper understanding", veneration of saints would still be pretty far from idolatry. Because veneration of saints doesn't equal worship of idols.
The clothing covers up the parts of the body that would be required to be exposed to be considered naked.

He still could have hallucinated. I can't prove it, so I'll end that hypothesis.
But you can't prove his predictions were because of God.

This is going in a circle and going no where, it's obvious it's not getting through to you, so have a nice day I guess.

The same could be said to you lol. Like half of your arguments here have relied on circular logic.

[Valgora]

I think even with "proper understanding", veneration of saints would still be pretty far from idolatry. Because veneration of saints doesn't equal worship of idols.
The clothing covers up the parts of the body that would be required to be exposed to be considered naked.

He still could have hallucinated. I can't prove it, so I'll end that hypothesis.
But you can't prove his predictions were because of God.

This is going in a circle and going no where, it's obvious it's not getting through to you, so have a nice day I guess.

If it ain't getting through to anyone, that one would be you.

If you don't worship idols, you can't be practicing idolatry. And veneration of saints ain't the same as worshiping them.
The clothing still covers up the parts of the body that are required to be exposed to be considered naked and to appear naked. I'm sorry that goes against this whole idea of "women will appear naked despite being dressed".

Can you prove that God gave Muhammad those predictions?

[Khataiy]

What I have said stands with what Umar says, what I said was a reiteration of what Sheikh Ibn Baz said

Are you sure you're not Wahhabi? You sure are quoting Ibn Baz a lot.

It would be obvious other wise

How exactly?

First and foremost "Wahhabism" is a myth secondly quoting Ibn Baz means nothing I could quote Hamza Yusuf if you want or any Islamic scholar, I chose Ibn Baz because of his historic status and his renowned respect across the Islamic community as being one of the most upright, learned and best scholars of our era, a scholar that rejected even being complemented for his knowledge, a scholar that when offered a palace by the king of Saudi Arabia asked for a mosque to be built instead, it is out of respect to the knowledge of the Sheikh which is rare.

It would be narrated in Hadiths and mentioned by orientalists and people who study the topic

[Khataiy]

This is going in a circle and going no where, it's obvious it's not getting through to you, so have a nice day I guess.

If it ain't getting through to anyone, that one would be you.

If you don't worship idols, you can't be practicing idolatry. And veneration of saints ain't the same as worshiping them.
The clothing still covers up the parts of the body that are required to be exposed to be considered naked and to appear naked. I'm sorry that goes against this whole idea of "women will appear naked despite being dressed".

Can you prove that God gave Muhammad those predictions?

These predictions can be found in Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Muwatta Imam Malik, Sunan Abi Dawud and other books of Hadith

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Are you sure you're not Wahhabi? You sure are quoting Ibn Baz a lot.

How exactly?

First and foremost "Wahhabism" is a myth secondly quoting Ibn Baz means nothing I could quote Hamza Yusuf if you want or any Islamic scholar, I chose Ibn Baz because of his historic status and his renowned respect across the Islamic community as being one of the most upright, learned and best scholars of our era, a scholar that rejected even being complemented for his knowledge, a scholar that when offered a palace by the king of Saudi Arabia asked for a mosque to be built instead, it is out of respect to the knowledge of the Sheikh which is rare.

It would be narrated in Hadiths and mentioned by orientalists and people who study the topic

Lmfao "upright" Ibn Baz. The only people who would think that are Wahhabis and their sympathizers. The man still believed in a bloody geocentric solar system, ffs. But yeah. he was hella humble publicly. Based.

And it would be mentioned in ahadith? Really? Do you know how remarkably similar "revelation" and hallucination are? If I point at an empty space and say that the angel Gabriel is there talking to me, am I hallucinating or receiving revelation? How would you tell?

[Valgora]

If it ain't getting through to anyone, that one would be you.

If you don't worship idols, you can't be practicing idolatry. And veneration of saints ain't the same as worshiping them.
The clothing still covers up the parts of the body that are required to be exposed to be considered naked and to appear naked. I'm sorry that goes against this whole idea of "women will appear naked despite being dressed".

Can you prove that God gave Muhammad those predictions?

These predictions can be found in Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Muwatta Imam Malik, Sunan Abi Dawud and other books of Hadith

And does that actually provide proof that those predictions came from God?

[Khataiy]

First and foremost "Wahhabism" is a myth secondly quoting Ibn Baz means nothing I could quote Hamza Yusuf if you want or any Islamic scholar, I chose Ibn Baz because of his historic status and his renowned respect across the Islamic community as being one of the most upright, learned and best scholars of our era, a scholar that rejected even being complemented for his knowledge, a scholar that when offered a palace by the king of Saudi Arabia asked for a mosque to be built instead, it is out of respect to the knowledge of the Sheikh which is rare.

It would be narrated in Hadiths and mentioned by orientalists and people who study the topic

Lmfao "upright" Ibn Baz. The only people who would think that are Wahhabis and their sympathizers. The man still believed in a bloody geocentric solar system, ffs. But yeah. he was hella humble publicly. Based.

And it would be mentioned in ahadith? Really? Do you know how remarkably similar "revelation" and hallucination are? If I point at an empty space and say that the angel Gabriel is there talking to me, am I hallucinating or receiving revelation? How would you tell?

Yet again I would like to point to the quote of Khalid Ibn al-Walid and what he said, you are not a Prophet and never will be so to even ask that is absurd

[Khataiy]

These predictions can be found in Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Muwatta Imam Malik, Sunan Abi Dawud and other books of Hadith

And does that actually provide proof that those predictions came from God?

From an Islamic standpoint yes

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Lmfao "upright" Ibn Baz. The only people who would think that are Wahhabis and their sympathizers. The man still believed in a bloody geocentric solar system, ffs. But yeah. he was hella humble publicly. Based.

And it would be mentioned in ahadith? Really? Do you know how remarkably similar "revelation" and hallucination are? If I point at an empty space and say that the angel Gabriel is there talking to me, am I hallucinating or receiving revelation? How would you tell?

Yet again I would like to point to the quote of Khalid Ibn al-Walid and what he said, you are not a Prophet and never will be so to even ask that is absurd

Yet again, are you going to bother to address the first part? Ibn Baz literally said it was alright to kill people who believe in a heliocentric solar system. Come on. I know you're at least better than this.

And good job on dodging yet again. It was merely a hypothetical and you know it. That's just weak.

[Valgora]

And does that actually provide proof that those predictions came from God?

From an Islamic standpoint yes

But that doesn't mean much.
You can't actually prove that his prediction came from God.

[Dahyan]

?

Numbers 31.

How many times do we need to ask y'all not to use Jewish texts as an argument? We don't believe in most of what is written in the Torah/Old Testament as it exists in its current, corrupted form. Case closed.