The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Valgora]

But that would mean he does have control, which he does not.
Well... he "controls" the universe in a way since he created the natural laws which the universe runs by. But that ain't the same as having control over my life.

It is because the fact that he created this universe means he could just as easily destroy it given that he is the almighty, the supreme and nothing is above him

But he has no control over my life and he doesn't interfere in our universe.
And how do you know the universe is so easy to destroy? Because I bet it was hard as hell to create - all the math and science and physics and chemistry that would be required to make it would make it no easy feat.

[Khataiy]

You asking to prove the existence of Allah is easily answered with the question can you disprove the existence Allah?

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.

There is nothing forcing it to be that way answer my question and you will have your answer so now you're the one dodging

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Not in the least. al-Qadariyyah believed that humans possess free will and as such, they are responsible for their actions, not Allah. Which is a very Zoroastrian view, admittedly. What exactly am I oversimplifying?


Sunni Islam holds that anything that ever has happened or ever will happened has been predicted and written down by Allah on a special tablet. Shia Islam views that it's not set in stone and Allah changes it as he wills. However, yes. Belief in predestination is the 6th article of faith.

The doctrine of the Qadariyya and Mutazillia is based on gnostic principles which is vastly different from the free will God gives us, free will can exist withing predestination and the scholars endorse this and every Muslim on Earth would agree, to say God is absent or hold little to no influence is indeed in correct humans are not entirely left alone and God does have the final say.

It's not free will if it has already been decided for us, mate.

[Khataiy]

It is because the fact that he created this universe means he could just as easily destroy it given that he is the almighty, the supreme and nothing is above him

But he has no control over my life and he doesn't interfere in our universe.
And how do you know the universe is so easy to destroy? Because I bet it was hard as hell to create - all the math and science and physics and chemistry that would be required to make it would make it no easy feat.

Nothing is hard for God, God is free from limitations

[Khataiy]

The doctrine of the Qadariyya and Mutazillia is based on gnostic principles which is vastly different from the free will God gives us, free will can exist withing predestination and the scholars endorse this and every Muslim on Earth would agree, to say God is absent or hold little to no influence is indeed in correct humans are not entirely left alone and God does have the final say.

It's not free will if it has already been decided for us, mate.

It is free will from our living perspective but obviously not from the perspective of the long term, God even allows us to change our fate through supplications

[Valgora]

But he has no control over my life and he doesn't interfere in our universe.
And how do you know the universe is so easy to destroy? Because I bet it was hard as hell to create - all the math and science and physics and chemistry that would be required to make it would make it no easy feat.

Nothing is hard for God, God is free from limitations

Are we so sure?
We are talking about a possibly infinite universe that is run by many, many natural laws - that couldn't have been easy, even for a God. Although, it would probably be easier compared to interfering with the universe everyday in order to run it.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.

There is nothing forcing it to be that way answer my question and you will have your answer so now you're the one dodging

I'm not dodging, you're not following logic and basic debate rules lol. Your claim is that God exists. The burden is on you to prove it. I never said he doesn't. I specifically said that it is a possibility. You're putting words where they never were, akhi.

[Khataiy]

Nothing is hard for God, God is free from limitations

Are we so sure?
We are talking about a possibly infinite universe that is run by many, many natural laws - that couldn't have been easy, even for a God. Although, it would probably be easier compared to interfering with the universe everyday in order to run it.

I am sure because God has said so and I trust him

[Sahansahiye Iran]

It's not free will if it has already been decided for us, mate.

It is free will from our living perspective but obviously not from the perspective of the long term, God even allows us to change our fate through supplications

At this point, I can't even tell if you know what you're trying to say anymore lol.

[Khataiy]

There is nothing forcing it to be that way answer my question and you will have your answer so now you're the one dodging

I'm not dodging, you're not following logic and basic debate rules lol. Your claim is that God exists. The burden is on you to prove it. I never said he doesn't. I specifically said that it is a possibility. You're putting words where they never were, akhi.

I don't have to follow "debate rules" if you want your answer than answer my question it's easy, if you aren't satisfied then don't complain

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Are we so sure?
We are talking about a possibly infinite universe that is run by many, many natural laws - that couldn't have been easy, even for a God. Although, it would probably be easier compared to interfering with the universe everyday in order to run it.

I am sure because God has said so and I trust him

God speaks to you? Neat. Oh wait. Do you mean the Quran? lel

[Khataiy]

I am sure because God has said so and I trust him

God speaks to you? Neat. Oh wait. Do you mean the Quran? lel

I obviously mean the Quran and Sunnah

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I'm not dodging, you're not following logic and basic debate rules lol. Your claim is that God exists. The burden is on you to prove it. I never said he doesn't. I specifically said that it is a possibility. You're putting words where they never were, akhi.

I don't have to follow "debate rules" if you want your answer than answer my question it's easy, if you aren't satisfied then don't complain

Wow. Now, who's dodging? I never denied your god's existence. I specifically said that it is a possibility. Why would I have to provide proof for such?

[Valgora]

Are we so sure?
We are talking about a possibly infinite universe that is run by many, many natural laws - that couldn't have been easy, even for a God. Although, it would probably be easier compared to interfering with the universe everyday in order to run it.

I am sure because God has said so and I trust him

Where did God say so?
In the Quaran? A book written by a man, not by God.

[Khataiy]

It is free will from our living perspective but obviously not from the perspective of the long term, God even allows us to change our fate through supplications

At this point, I can't even tell if you know what you're trying to say anymore lol.

This is the position of Sheikh Ibn Baz and every major Islamic scholar across every school of thought even across Sunnis and Shias

[Sahansahiye Iran]

God speaks to you? Neat. Oh wait. Do you mean the Quran? lel

I obviously mean the Quran and Sunnah

Noooooooooo. Ya don't say. Really?! It's still just as laughable.

[Khataiy]

I am sure because God has said so and I trust him

Where did God say so?
In the Quaran? A book written by a man, not by God.

The Quran is not a man made book Muhammad was illiterate

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I am sure because God has said so and I trust him

Where did God say so?
In the Quaran? A book written by a man, not by God.

Honestly, you're just gonna run into more circular logic from him, mate. al-Quran is the perfect word of God in their minds.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Where did God say so?
In the Quaran? A book written by a man, not by God.

The Quran is not a man made book Muhammad was illiterate

Did he say Muhammad? He said a man. Plenty of early Muslims knew how to write.

[Valgora]

Where did God say so?
In the Quaran? A book written by a man, not by God.

The Quran is not a man made book Muhammad was illiterate

So he had to tell someone who had to write it down.
It was his first wife if I remember correctly.

[Khataiy]

I don't have to follow "debate rules" if you want your answer than answer my question it's easy, if you aren't satisfied then don't complain

Wow. Now, who's dodging? I never denied your god's existence. I specifically said that it is a possibility. Why would I have to provide proof for such?

It is clearly impossible to disprove God, but I could easily create a list of proofs for Islam and Allah but I'm not interested in entertaining that but I am interested spreading awareness that it is impossible to disprove God and the fact you don't even fully deny Allah's existence and that within itself is a proof of Allah

[Khataiy]

The Quran is not a man made book Muhammad was illiterate

Did he say Muhammad? He said a man. Plenty of early Muslims knew how to write.

Khalid ibn Walid said:
"Blessings to the those who accept Islam after Muhammad, for they haven't seen the miracles we have."

[Sahansahiye Iran]

At this point, I can't even tell if you know what you're trying to say anymore lol.

This is the position of Sheikh Ibn Baz and every major Islamic scholar across every school of thought even across Sunnis and Shias

Uh... no. It's pretty specific Maturidi thought that all actions have already been laid out by God.

Also, lol @using Sheikh Ibn Baz as an actual support for your argument. Based.

[Valgora]

Wow. Now, who's dodging? I never denied your god's existence. I specifically said that it is a possibility. Why would I have to provide proof for such?

It is clearly impossible to disprove God, but I could easily create a list of proofs for Islam and Allah but I'm not interested in entertaining that but I am interested spreading awareness that it is impossible to disprove God and the fact you don't even fully deny Allah's existence and that within itself is a proof of Allah

You could provide proofs that God exists, but usually such proof is worthless since scientific proof disproves it.
And under science, if you can't prove God, you also can't assume he exists.

[Khataiy]

This is the position of Sheikh Ibn Baz and every major Islamic scholar across every school of thought even across Sunnis and Shias

Uh... no. It's pretty specific Maturidi thought that all actions have already been laid out by God.

Also, lol @using Sheikh Ibn Baz as an actual support for your argument. Based.

The Athari'i accept this position as do the Ashari'i it is just a matter of presentation and wording