The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Negarakita]

This PDF says that:

Because of the severity and perfidy of these offences, God Almighty does not transfer the right of dispensing justice to such offenders to anyone - not even to His most beloved of Prophets. Instead, He tells the Holy Prophet, ‘forgive them and turn away from them’. It is because God Almighty considers the offences to be so grave that no punishment in this world can do justice to the severity of the offences.

Then why is there Sharia law? Isn't that people dispensing justice?

(By the way, has anyone noticed how my questions have gotten more educated? I'm very happy about that.)

It's allah dispensing the punishment. Humans are merely the vessels for it to be passed on.

[Geneviev]

This PDF says that:

Then why is there Sharia law? Isn't that people dispensing justice?

(By the way, has anyone noticed how my questions have gotten more educated? I'm very happy about that.)

It's allah dispensing the punishment. Humans are merely the vessels for it to be passed on.

Okay, thank you.

[Negarakita]

It's allah dispensing the punishment. Humans are merely the vessels for it to be passed on.

Okay, thank you.

IDK tho I'm not at all a scholar so I'd wait for a more knowledgeable brother or sister to provide better info.

[Jolthig]

Technically I and other Ahmadis are Sunnis in the sense that we accept the first four khalifas (ra) and we accept all Sunni Hadith as authentic. We only differ on who the Messiah is.

Isn't your messiah ded tho?

Yes. Every prophet dies

[Negarakita]

Isn't your messiah ded tho?

Yes. Every prophet dies

Doesn't that have theological implications tho? I don't know much about the Ahmadiyya sorry.

[Geneviev]

Okay, thank you.

IDK tho I'm not at all a scholar so I'd wait for a more knowledgeable brother or sister to provide better info.

Insert patient waiting here, as I stare longingly at the screen and refresh the page every second.

Heh. Nope, I'm actually sitting around on alislam.org and trying to learn, not refreshing this page constantly.

[Cuprum]

The IDF has muslim, druzes and christian members...

I know. It also has rampantly far right jews who target 15 year old kids and journalists. Its a spectrum, as I mentioned earlier a bit of a stretch.

Both sides are ''Evil''... Fatah and Hamas bureacrats are the most corrupted on earth, even since the PLO was born they have been stealing millions of dollars from foreign aid.

The GDP of Palestine is 10 billion dollars but you have people like Abu Marzouk who has a net worth of 3 billion dollars, how is that possible? There are 600 millionaires in Gaza who get profits from smuggling. In Israel at least PM who are discovered being involved in corruption scandals end in prison (Ehud Olmert for example) and Netanyahu won't be the exception since the police hate him.

[Northern Davincia]

Two of these things are not like the other.

The crusaders were legitimately white isis. IDF I will admit is a bit of a stretch.

If you don't want the Holy Land liberated, you shouldn't have conquered it from the Byzantines.

[Negarakita]

The crusaders were legitimately white isis. IDF I will admit is a bit of a stretch.

If you don't want the Holy Land liberated, you shouldn't have conquered it from the Byzantines.

Oh shit back to the desert fellas

Oh wait the crusaders got cucked nvm...

[Negarakita]

I know. It also has rampantly far right jews who target 15 year old kids and journalists. Its a spectrum, as I mentioned earlier a bit of a stretch.

Both sides are ''Evil''... Fatah and Hamas bureacrats are the most corrupted on earth, even since the PLO was born they have been stealing millions of dollars from foreign aid.

The GDP of Palestine is 10 billion dollars but you have people like Abu Marzouk who has a net worth of 3 billion dollars, how is that possible? There are 600 millionaires in Gaza who get profits from smuggling. In Israel at least PM who are discovered being involved in corruption scandals end in prison (Ehud Olmert for example) and Netanyahu won't be the exception since the police hate him.

I don't deny the corruption, but in terms of violence and land stealing the Israelis are exceptional

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

He turned down the Caliphate when the rebels tried to offer it to him. He should not be to blame for their actions.

He enraged the Syrians (Ummayads) by not punishing the murderers of Uthman which was one of the excuses Muawiyah had to cause the 1st Fitna which ended in the Quraysh downfall.

I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to the death of Uthman.

[Cuprum]

Both sides are ''Evil''... Fatah and Hamas bureacrats are the most corrupted on earth, even since the PLO was born they have been stealing millions of dollars from foreign aid.

The GDP of Palestine is 10 billion dollars but you have people like Abu Marzouk who has a net worth of 3 billion dollars, how is that possible? There are 600 millionaires in Gaza who get profits from smuggling. In Israel at least PM who are discovered being involved in corruption scandals end in prison (Ehud Olmert for example) and Netanyahu won't be the exception since the police hate him.

I don't deny the corruption, but in terms of violence and land stealing the Israelis are exceptional

Indeed but you can't win a war when your own leaders are stealing resources from you and use war as propaganda to remain in power forever.

Another topic

Most Quranists claim circumcision is haram, arguing that Quran 4:119 forbids altering one's body, and 95:4 says man was created perfectly.

Under the same logic, tatoos, earrings, silicone attached to the body, botox, etc. are haram. So why muslims continue to do that? Specially the ones from an orthodox root.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Was Iblis not an angel who disobeyed god?

Iblis was not an angel. Yes the several references of "We said to the angels, 'Submit to Adam' and they submitted, but Iblis did not."

But it's clear Iblis is not an angel because if he was, then it would contradict the Qu'ran in 66:6 (7 in the translation I use):

O ye who believe! save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is men and stones, over which are appointed angels, stern and severe, who disobey not Allah in what He commands them and do as they are commanded.

Two verses above also says angels are submissive to God.

Now if you two turn unto Allah repentant, it will be better for you, and your hearts are already so inclined. But if you back up each other against him, surely Allah is his Helper and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and furthermore, all other angels too are his helpers.

Further, Iblis was one of the jinn. He was not an angel. If he was then, that wouldn't make any sense at all.

And remember the time when We said to the angels, ‘Submit to Adam,’ and they all submitted, except Iblis. He was one of the Jinn; and he disobeyed the command of his Lord. Will you then take him and his offspring for friends instead of Me while they are your enemies? Evil is the exchange for the wrongdoers.

Do they? Is Adam not a nabi now?

Are you saying that?

What about in the Judeo-Christian tradition when Aaron turned from God and created the Calf? In that same tradition, did Solomon not turn away from god and thus god punished him for it?

Not sure what's that gotta do with anything. Besides, prophets cannot sin. Sin is the intentional disobedience to God. When Adam messed up, he made a mistake. It was unintentional.

It wouldn't be the first time that the Quran was contradicted, would it?

He unintentionally ate the fruit, right? It unintentionally fell into his mouth, he unintentionally chewed it, and he unintentionally swallowed it, right?

[Negarakita]

I don't deny the corruption, but in terms of violence and land stealing the Israelis are exceptional

Indeed but you can't win a war when your own leaders are stealing resources from you and use war as propaganda to remain in power forever.

Another topic

Most Quranists claim circumcision is haram, arguing that Quran 4:119 forbids altering one's body, and 95:4 says man was created perfectly.

Under the same logic, tatoos, earrings, silicone attached to the body, botox, etc. are haram.

Non quranists believe all that is haram. Cicumsision is merely Sunnah as well iirc.

[Jolthig]

Yes. Every prophet dies

Doesn't that have theological implications tho? I don't know much about the Ahmadiyya sorry.

I don't understand what you mean?

I'll try to answer though, it doesn't go against Islamic doctrine.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

The crusaders were legitimately white isis. IDF I will admit is a bit of a stretch.

If you don't want the Holy Land liberated, you shouldn't have conquered it from the Byzantines.

So, they liberated Constantinople, too, right? They liberated it so well, pillaging the city and slaughtering its inhabitants, right?

[Cuprum]

Indeed but you can't win a war when your own leaders are stealing resources from you and use war as propaganda to remain in power forever.

Another topic

Most Quranists claim circumcision is haram, arguing that Quran 4:119 forbids altering one's body, and 95:4 says man was created perfectly.

Under the same logic, tatoos, earrings, silicone attached to the body, botox, etc. are haram.

Non quranists believe all that is haram. Cicumsision is merely Sunnah as well iirc.

Circumsicion is still done by a huge amount of muslims even when it goes against the Quran and child rights (That's why is banned in Iceland for minors).

[Jolthig]

Iblis was not an angel. Yes the several references of "We said to the angels, 'Submit to Adam' and they submitted, but Iblis did not."

But it's clear Iblis is not an angel because if he was, then it would contradict the Qu'ran in 66:6 (7 in the translation I use):



Two verses above also says angels are submissive to God.



Further, Iblis was one of the jinn. He was not an angel. If he was then, that wouldn't make any sense at all.




Are you saying that?


Not sure what's that gotta do with anything. Besides, prophets cannot sin. Sin is the intentional disobedience to God. When Adam messed up, he made a mistake. It was unintentional.

It wouldn't be the first time that the Quran was contradicted, would it?

He unintentionally ate the fruit, right? It unintentionally fell into his mouth, he unintentionally chewed it, and he unintentionally swallowed it, right?

Yeah, though the Ahmadiyya position is that we don't take the story of Adam and Eve eating fruits of the forbidden tree literally. The entire story of garden we do not take literally nor do we believe Adam and Eve were up in heaven when this happened.

I'll explain in detail later. I am going to eat soon and read Quran inshallah

[Negarakita]

Non quranists believe all that is haram. Cicumsision is merely Sunnah as well iirc.

Circumsicion is still done by a huge amount of muslims even when it goes against the Quran and child rights (That's why is banned in Iceland for minors).

Sunnah means it is recommended

[Cuprum]

Circumsicion is still done by a huge amount of muslims even when it goes against the Quran and child rights (That's why is banned in Iceland for minors).

Sunnah means it is recommended

Some sects take the sunnah as a dogma more than a recommendation....

[Negarakita]

Sunnah means it is recommended

Some sects take the sunnah as a dogma more than a recommendation....

I know

[Cuprum]

Some sects take the sunnah as a dogma more than a recommendation....

I know

Then i will create my own Tariqa and destroy ignorance through rationalism (Though that will kill the Quran)...

[Negarakita]

I know

Then i will create my own Tariqa and destroy ignorance through rationalism (Though that will kill the Quran)...

pls no neo-mutazilism on my profile thanks

[Cuprum]

Then i will create my own Tariqa and destroy ignorance through rationalism (Though that will kill the Quran)...

pls no neo-mutazilism on my profile thanks

I don't reduce my way of thinking into 5 dogmatic precepts like the Muʿtazilites did, though their contributions with the Ash'arites in the areas of science, philosophy, jurisprudence, etc can't be denied (Averroes, the problem of evil, etc)

[Negarakita]

pls no neo-mutazilism on my profile thanks

I don't reduce my way of thinking into 5 dogmatic precepts like the Muʿtazilites did, though their contributions with the Ash'arites in the areas of science, philosophy, jurisprudence, etc can't be denied (Averroes, the problem of evil, etc)

Wait, so are you Muslim?