The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Herskerstad]

Yeah, and I stand by my statement. The fact you think that's not true is just hilarious on many levels (especially since it's essentially the basic reason why the Caliphates went into conquering sprees)

Patience, brother.

There is nothing that can be gained in this argument - it is like arguing to a man who is stealing your money that it is not his right. Such a man is motivated by greed and opportunity, not by rights.

Spend your words talking to your own people.

War will come to Europe again, as it does every little while - and this time, we will retake Constantinople.

God wills it.

Yeah last time the crusaders tried to do anything with Constantinople it ended great.

[Mercuriuseudoro]

I find it amusing that you saw my Anti-Islamic sentence and automatically assumed I was a Deus Vult rando.
Did you somehow miss the "Anti-monotheist" in my sig

Your liberty to have a unique and interesting personal opinion is a relic of peace.

When the pendulum swings, you will discover that there is no neutral ground to stand on, and no one will be very interested in what you think.

[Herskerstad]

I find it amusing that you saw my Anti-Islamic sentence and automatically assumed I was a Deus Vult rando.
Did you somehow miss the "Anti-monotheist" in my sig

Your liberty to have a unique and interesting personal opinion is a relic of peace.

When the pendulum swings, you will discover that there is no neutral ground to stand on, and no one will be very interested in what you think.

Which pendulum, what change of situation?

And Frievolk does have something to add as long as we can freely discuss things. It's not my normal cup of tea, but I certainly think his opinions not uninteresting.

[Frievolk]

I find it amusing that you saw my Anti-Islamic sentence and automatically assumed I was a Deus Vult rando.
Did you somehow miss the "Anti-monotheist" in my sig

Your liberty to have a unique and interesting personal opinion is a relic of peace.

When the pendulum swings, you will discover that there is no neutral ground to stand on, and no one will be very interested in what you think.

You do realize the age of religious wars has passed, right? Even Islam is slowly phasing out the "let's start religious wars" by letting them show the kind of nuttos they really are. If that "pendulum" ever swings, it'll be about irreligion against religion... which I would also claim neutrality in any such conflict. I dislike religion, but not enough to get into physical conflict over it.

And yeah, there's always "neutral" ground to stand on, and I don't generally care what people think about my opinions. If I did, I wouldn't be debating Muslims, in an Islamic Discussion Thread, as a Murtadd.

[Jolthig]

In defense of Frievolk, I can assure you, brothers, he's a legitimate person. We both are pretty good friends and he's a nice guy if you get to know him personally. We disagree on many things and debate a lot, but having admired one another for each other's knowledge and argumentation, we became friends.

Although yes, Frievolk can get heated at times, I don't think accusing him of things helps out. Do remember that Islam does not support those who use their passions and anger to harass an individual; even if they dislike our faith.

Do note, while still disagreeing with him on my end, he does come from a country that is very strict and oppresses anyone who disagrees with their form of government. He could get arrest or possibly executed, had he announced his leaving of Islam and atheism in public. Also, having seen many clerics being arrogant and narrow minded.

Being an Ahmadi Muslim, which is also banned in Iran, I have empathy for Frievolk. And it is because of my empathy for him is why he came to know there are still respectful Muslims out there. If we want to preach our faith, we need to show empathy for people.

This post is not intended to offend anyone; rather merely trying to correct you guys as your fellow brother in faith. Do note both the Quran and Sunnah discourage us from lashing out at our opponents in our own passions and anger.

I am not saying that I am completely free from the above mentioned as many of you have watched me lash out at various people in the past, but it is when we take personal responsibility and recite istaghfar is when we see a change in our character.

Inshallah and may Allah guide us all. Ameen. Wa salaam.

[Herskerstad]

In defense of Frievolk, I can assure you, brothers, he's a legitimate person. We both are pretty good friends and he's a nice guy if you get to know him personally. We disagree on many things and debate a lot, but having admired one another for each other's knowledge and argumentation, we became friends.

Although yes, Frievolk can get heated at times, I don't think accusing him of things helps out. Do remember that Islam does not support those who use their passions and anger to harass an individual; even if they dislike our faith.

Do note, while still disagreeing with him on my end, he does come from a country that is very strict and oppresses anyone who disagrees with their form of government. He could get arrest or possibly executed, had he announced his leaving of Islam and atheism in public. Also, having seen many clerics being arrogant and narrow minded.

Being an Ahmadi Muslim, which is also banned in Iran, I have empathy for Frievolk. And it is because of my empathy for him is why he came to know there are still respectful Muslims out there. If we want to preach our faith, we need to show empathy for people.

This post is not intended to offend anyone; rather merely trying to correct you guys as your fellow brother in faith. Do note both the Quran and Sunnah discourage us from lashing out at our opponents in our own passions and anger.

I am not saying that I am completely free from the above mentioned as many of you have watched me lash out at various people in the past, but it is when we take personal responsibility and recite istaghfar is when we see a change in our character.

Inshallah and may Allah guide us all. Ameen. Wa salaam.

I do agree on the ethos. We should all take a look at our behaviorism in regards to that whole situation.

[Jolthig]

In defense of Frievolk, I can assure you, brothers, he's a legitimate person. We both are pretty good friends and he's a nice guy if you get to know him personally. We disagree on many things and debate a lot, but having admired one another for each other's knowledge and argumentation, we became friends.

Although yes, Frievolk can get heated at times, I don't think accusing him of things helps out. Do remember that Islam does not support those who use their passions and anger to harass an individual; even if they dislike our faith.

Do note, while still disagreeing with him on my end, he does come from a country that is very strict and oppresses anyone who disagrees with their form of government. He could get arrest or possibly executed, had he announced his leaving of Islam and atheism in public. Also, having seen many clerics being arrogant and narrow minded.

Being an Ahmadi Muslim, which is also banned in Iran, I have empathy for Frievolk. And it is because of my empathy for him is why he came to know there are still respectful Muslims out there. If we want to preach our faith, we need to show empathy for people.

This post is not intended to offend anyone; rather merely trying to correct you guys as your fellow brother in faith. Do note both the Quran and Sunnah discourage us from lashing out at our opponents in our own passions and anger.

I am not saying that I am completely free from the above mentioned as many of you have watched me lash out at various people in the past, but it is when we take personal responsibility and recite istaghfar is when we see a change in our character.

Inshallah and may Allah guide us all. Ameen. Wa salaam.

I do agree on the ethos. We should all take a look at our behaviorism in regards to that whole situation.

I've been less active because of drama like this (and because my khalifa has discouraged his followers from using social media due to the drama on there). Though I'll still pop in and out.

[Herskerstad]

I do agree on the ethos. We should all take a look at our behaviorism in regards to that whole situation.

I've been less active because of drama like this (and because my khalifa has discouraged his followers from using social media due to the drama on there). Though I'll still pop in and out.

I hear ya. Just if you need anything I'll be around.

[Izaakia]

Then you should report it instead of troll-naming.

I'm pretty sure your said "they" about Muslims without names or numbers and didn't cite your sources.

that is not meaningful discussion.

If you live in Europe you could be reported to the police for hate speech.

We can all thank Rowan Atkinson (yes that’s Mr Bean and Johnny English) for the repeal section 5 campaign which now means being offensive is no longer classed as a hate crime, which it should never have been, because offence is subjective. Welcome to the free world.

[Herskerstad]

I'm pretty sure your said "they" about Muslims without names or numbers and didn't cite your sources.

that is not meaningful discussion.

If you live in Europe you could be reported to the police for hate speech.

We can all thank Rowan Atkinson (yes that’s Mr Bean and Johnny English) for the repeal section 5 campaign which now means being offensive is no longer classed as a hate crime, which it should never have been, because offence is subjective. Welcome to the free world.

Yeah no blasphemy laws here either. Thankfully we have avoided some soft European trends on the issue. Looking at you Austria.

Blasphemy laws and the like are just bad, I don't think can legislate faith or for that matter respect in a genuine way.

[Izaakia]

We can all thank Rowan Atkinson (yes that’s Mr Bean and Johnny English) for the repeal section 5 campaign which now means being offensive is no longer classed as a hate crime, which it should never have been, because offence is subjective. Welcome to the free world.

Yeah no blasphemy laws here either. Thankfully we have avoided some soft European trends on the issue. Looking at you Austria.

Blasphemy laws and the like are just bad, I don't think can legislate faith or for that matter respect in a genuine way.

Are we allowed to be angry that they stereotype us and think our laws are all the same?

Yeah, I agree, laws that restrict freedom of speech are unacceptable.

[Herskerstad]

Yeah no blasphemy laws here either. Thankfully we have avoided some soft European trends on the issue. Looking at you Austria.

Blasphemy laws and the like are just bad, I don't think can legislate faith or for that matter respect in a genuine way.

Are we allowed to be angry that they stereotype us and think our laws are all the same?

Yeah, I agree, laws that restrict freedom of speech are unacceptable.

Thank God for the first amendment.

[Negarakita]

We can all thank Rowan Atkinson (yes that’s Mr Bean and Johnny English) for the repeal section 5 campaign which now means being offensive is no longer classed as a hate crime, which it should never have been, because offence is subjective. Welcome to the free world.

Yeah no blasphemy laws here either. Thankfully we have avoided some soft European trends on the issue. Looking at you Austria.

Blasphemy laws and the like are just bad, I don't think can legislate faith or for that matter respect in a genuine way.

Blasphemy laws are essential so that we can selectively apply them against people like that dick Ricky Gervais and my friend who does the whole fedora tipping atheist thing.

[Izaakia]

Yeah no blasphemy laws here either. Thankfully we have avoided some soft European trends on the issue. Looking at you Austria.

Blasphemy laws and the like are just bad, I don't think can legislate faith or for that matter respect in a genuine way.

Blasphemy laws are essential so that we can selectively apply them against people like that dick Ricky Gervais and my friend who does the whole fedora tipping atheist thing.

You’d prosecute the legend who gave us Derek and Karl Pilkinton

[Herskerstad]

Yeah no blasphemy laws here either. Thankfully we have avoided some soft European trends on the issue. Looking at you Austria.

Blasphemy laws and the like are just bad, I don't think can legislate faith or for that matter respect in a genuine way.

Blasphemy laws are essential so that we can selectively apply them against people like that dick Ricky Gervais and my friend who does the whole fedora tipping atheist thing.

One of the core problems with having blasphemy law is that the court needs to be able to declare itself a licit disposer of theology. One persons blasphemy can be another persons worship, sad as it is.

I mean it's different in situations where a person takes great monetary damages for a provable falsehood with no wiggle room or interpretation in the form of slander with no effort to reconcile. Or if a person makes a call to physically attack someone or threatens/insinuates it. But I don't see how a court can improve community cohesion by declaring itself omniscient which would be required to in give a fool-proof ruling on blasphemy.

[Negarakita]

Blasphemy laws are essential so that we can selectively apply them against people like that dick Ricky Gervais and my friend who does the whole fedora tipping atheist thing.

One of the core problems with having blasphemy law is that the court needs to be able to declare itself a licit disposer of theology. One persons blasphemy can be another persons worship, sad as it is.

I mean it's different in situations where a person takes great monetary damages for a provable falsehood with no wiggle room or interpretation in the form of slander with no effort to reconcile. Or if a person makes a call to physically attack someone or threatens/insinuates it. But I don't see how a court can improve community cohesion by declaring itself omniscient which would be required to in give a fool-proof ruling on blasphemy.

Hence its just for political repression and targetting people we don't like

[Dahyan]

I don't have to take anything from the guy who claimed that Muhammad started the Arab slave trade.

lel where did he say that?

Page 276.

[Dahyan]

I don't have to take anything from the guy who claimed that Muhammad started the Arab slave trade.

The arab was a slave holding community long before Muhammad so that cannot be true. He certainly had a major impact in changing it since he changed much of the world.

Yes, but to suggest that Muhammad was the groundlayer of the massive Arab slave trade of later centuries is idiotic.

[Dahyan]

I don't have to take anything from the guy who claimed that Muhammad started the Arab slave trade.

Yeah, and I stand by my statement. The fact you think that's not true is just hilarious on many levels (especially since it's essentially the basic reason why the Caliphates went into conquering sprees)

I've got a news flash for you. The Caliphates were founded after the Prophet Muhammad died. Muhammad is about as guilty to the Umayyad, Abbasid and Ottoman slave trade as Jesus is guilty of the genocide on the Aztec Empire.

[Dahyan]

I find it amusing that you saw my Anti-Islamic sentence and automatically assumed I was a Deus Vult rando.
Did you somehow miss the "Anti-monotheist" in my sig

Your liberty to have a unique and interesting personal opinion is a relic of peace.

When the pendulum swings, you will discover that there is no neutral ground to stand on, and no one will be very interested in what you think.

As hilarious as this is, I wouldn't even be surprised to see Catholic extremists and atheist radicala team up against Islam in the near future.

[New haven america]

Yeah, and I stand by my statement. The fact you think that's not true is just hilarious on many levels (especially since it's essentially the basic reason why the Caliphates went into conquering sprees)

I've got a news flash for you. The Caliphates were founded after the Prophet Muhammad died. Muhammad is about as guilty to the Umayyad, Abbasid and Ottoman slave trade as Jesus is guilty of the genocide on the Aztec Empire.

Let's just ignore the fact that he conquered Mecca and most of the Arabian Peninsula, or the fact that the Caliphates started almost immediately after his death.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I find it amusing that you saw my Anti-Islamic sentence and automatically assumed I was a Deus Vult rando.
Did you somehow miss the "Anti-monotheist" in my sig

Your liberty to have a unique and interesting personal opinion is a relic of peace.

When the pendulum swings, you will discover that there is no neutral ground to stand on, and no one will be very interested in what you think.

Wow. What a 180. You went from supporting him to saying he will have nowhere to stand. Don't give me whiplash like that, man.

[The Alma Mater]

While interesting, it will be mostly a waste of time. Most people only attack Mohammed because they dislike muslims; not because they really care about a guy who lived many centuries ago in farawayistan.

What might (or might not) be more productive is listing the good muslims have brought to the world. To offset all the negative news about muslims slaughtering children with machineguns, draining welfare systems, refusing to respect local populations, raping girls etc. etc.

Currently there are almost no positive portrayals of Islam in Europe. Everything is tainted by the disgusting behaviour of several small, but incredibly noticeable, groups of muslims.
So find some medicines developed by muslims, techical innovations by muslims etc. That might help more than your planned list; though I would enjoy reading that as well.

A lot of them already like the community where I come from.

Though I also suppose it doesn't help that there are right wing ultranationalists and then left wing really liberal secularists on here as well. Both are heavily opposed to Islam.

True, but what MOSTLY does not help is that the average muslim is perceived to be a pathetic parasitic piece of violent shit - and that muslims have done their utmost best to confirm that said stereotype is completely accurate and true.

Which of course leads to people pointing at Islam as being the cause.

Show the world that muslims are good and useful people who strongly condemn bad things done by their brethren and aid them to return to the right path - and people will stop associating Islam and shittyness with eachother. People might even try to read to Quran without bias.

Or not.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Yeah, and I stand by my statement. The fact you think that's not true is just hilarious on many levels (especially since it's essentially the basic reason why the Caliphates went into conquering sprees)

I've got a news flash for you. The Caliphates were founded after the Prophet Muhammad died. Muhammad is about as guilty to the Umayyad, Abbasid and Ottoman slave trade as Jesus is guilty of the genocide on the Aztec Empire.

>Umayyad founded by guy who personally knew Muhammad
>Spanish.conquest of the Americas 1,500 years after Jesus lived

Mkay. Sure. Accurate comparison.

[Dahyan]

I've got a news flash for you. The Caliphates were founded after the Prophet Muhammad died. Muhammad is about as guilty to the Umayyad, Abbasid and Ottoman slave trade as Jesus is guilty of the genocide on the Aztec Empire.

Let's just ignore the fact that he conquered Mecca and most of the Arabian Peninsula, or the fact that the Caliphates started almost immediately after his death.

What does conquering Mecca have to do with slave trade? The city wasn't even taken militarily.

It's irrelevant when the Caliphate started. Muhammad was dead, is my point. And the major Arab slave trade didn't kick off until at least the Umayyad empire.