The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Kubumba Tribe]

I've heard about the Cosmological Argument in the form of the Kalam Cosmological Argument (KCA). I think it's pretty good.

[Jolthig]

Therefore, a truthful man—in whose soul no kind of arrogance and self-conceit has taken root, and who is well aware of the weakness,
insignificance, and ineffectiveness of his own being, and finds himself
incapable of carrying any task to its completion, and sees no power or strength in his own person—finds his feeble spirit begging, without any artificiality, for strength from the heavens before he embarks on any endeavour. He beholds the Omnipotent Being of God in all His perfection and glory all the time, and His rahmaniyyat and rahimiyyat
appear to him as the pivot for the successful conclusion of all his affairs. Therefore, before he ventures upon exercising his own imperfect and
ineffective energies, he spontaneously seeks help from Allah through the prayer, بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْمِ. Therefore because of this humility and lowliness, he becomes worthy of receiving power from the power of God, strength from His strength, and knowledge from His knowledge, so that he may achieve success in his objectives.

(Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya, pt. 4, pg. 192, by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad)

This right here. Yes, it's from the founder of my community, but there is no disagreement between us regarding this.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Updated my factbook

[Genivaria]

I've heard about the Cosmological Argument in the form of the Kalam Cosmological Argument (KCA). I think it's pretty good.

It's a PRATT.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I've heard about the Cosmological Argument in the form of the Kalam Cosmological Argument (KCA). I think it's pretty good.

It's a PRATT.

I've seen the refutations here (under "Problems") and some of them aren't what KCA is trying to prove.

[Jolthig]

Joining Amin on his preaching, I will make a Factbook of Hadith of the kindness of Muhammad (saw) to prove that he isnt what the media or many NSGers make him out to be.

[Saranidia]

It's a PRATT.

I've seen the refutations here (under "Problems") and some of them aren't what KCA is trying to prove.

I support the KCA.
It solves the problem of "if everything needs a cause what caused God"

[The Alma Mater]

Joining Amin on his preaching, I will make a Factbook of Hadith of the kindness of Muhammad (saw) to prove that he isnt what the media or many NSGers make him out to be.

While interesting, it will be mostly a waste of time. Most people only attack Mohammed because they dislike muslims; not because they really care about a guy who lived many centuries ago in farawayistan.

What might (or might not) be more productive is listing the good muslims have brought to the world. To offset all the negative news about muslims slaughtering children with machineguns, draining welfare systems, refusing to respect local populations, raping girls etc. etc.

Currently there are almost no positive portrayals of Islam in Europe. Everything is tainted by the disgusting behaviour of several small, but incredibly noticeable, groups of muslims.
So find some medicines developed by muslims, techical innovations by muslims etc. That might help more than your planned list; though I would enjoy reading that as well.

[Dahon]

I've heard about the Cosmological Argument in the form of the Kalam Cosmological Argument (KCA). I think it's pretty good.

Looked over the link to Rational Wiki -- so what's so different about it from the Thomistic?

[Jolthig]

Joining Amin on his preaching, I will make a Factbook of Hadith of the kindness of Muhammad (saw) to prove that he isnt what the media or many NSGers make him out to be.

While interesting, it will be mostly a waste of time. Most people only attack Mohammed because they dislike muslims; not because they really care about a guy who lived many centuries ago in farawayistan.

What might (or might not) be more productive is listing the good muslims have brought to the world. To offset all the negative news about muslims slaughtering children with machineguns, draining welfare systems, refusing to respect local populations, raping girls etc. etc.

Currently there are almost no positive portrayals of Islam in Europe. Everything is tainted by the disgusting behaviour of several small, but incredibly noticeable, groups of muslims.
So find some medicines developed by muslims, techical innovations by muslims etc. That might help more than your planned list; though I would enjoy reading that as well.

A lot of them already like the community where I come from.

Though I also suppose it doesn't help that there are right wing ultranationalists and then left wing really liberal secularists on here as well. Both are heavily opposed to Islam.

[Jolthig]

I have been Muslim for 2 years. Alhamdulilah

[Dahyan]

I have been Muslim for 2 years. Alhamdulilah

Alhamdulillah. It seems like many of us on the forums are reverts.

[Negarakita]

I have been Muslim for 2 years. Alhamdulilah

Alhamdulillah. It seems like many of us on the forums are reverts.

Alsheb habiby pls send zaydi links I wanna learn about it.

[Jolthig]

I have been Muslim for 2 years. Alhamdulilah

Alhamdulillah. It seems like many of us on the forums are reverts.

Nice. How many years have you been?

[Kubumba Tribe]

I wouldn't consider heinous injustices like this funny.

You have defended slavery and territorial expansion done under the banner of Islam (not to mention all other kinds), you of all people don't get to call it injustice simply because Washington was Christian instead of Mohammedan Muslim.

Actually I do. Because as was said multiple times by me, Islamic slavery is not the same as American slavery, and there are rules go jihad. Look here for more information: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=kub ... id=1115207

[Frievolk]

You have defended slavery and territorial expansion done under the banner of Islam (not to mention all other kinds), you of all people don't get to call it injustice simply because Washington was Christian instead of Mohammedan Muslim.

Actually I do. Because as was said multiple times by me, Islamic slavery is not the same as American slavery, and there are rules go jihad. Look here for more information: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=kub ... id=1115207

And you were responded to, more times than you said that, that Islamic Slavery has historically been worse than Trans-Atlantic Slavery (or any other type of slavery) in history, so that doesn't really make it better.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Actually I do. Because as was said multiple times by me, Islamic slavery is not the same as American slavery, and there are rules go jihad. Look here for more information: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=kub ... id=1115207

And you were responded to, more times than you said that, that Islamic Slavery has historically been worse than Trans-Atlantic Slavery (or any other type of slavery) in history, so that doesn't really make it better.

Again, I'm not talking about history.

[Frievolk]

And you were responded to, more times than you said that, that Islamic Slavery has historically been worse than Trans-Atlantic Slavery (or any other type of slavery) in history, so that doesn't really make it better.

Again, I'm not talking about history.

No, you're talking about an economic system of wealth that has, historically speaking, been worse than anything comparable to it in other cultures at any time. It was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Roman slavery) back during your founder's time, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. European serfdom, chattel slavery) during the Caliphates and early Ottomans, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Trans-Atlantic Slavery) during late Ottomans, and it was only abolished recently (as recently as 1980) because non-Muslims knew better and forced you to.
Does it really matter what you are or aren't talking about? No. No it does not.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Again, I'm not talking about history.

No, you're talking about an economic system of wealth that has, historically speaking, been worse than anything comparable to it in other cultures at any time. It was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Roman slavery) back during your founder's time, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. European serfdom, chattel slavery) during the Caliphates and early Ottomans, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Trans-Atlantic Slavery) during late Ottomans, and it was only abolished recently (as recently as 1980) because non-Muslims knew better and forced you to.
Does it really matter what you are or aren't talking about? No. No it does not.

I don't have a founder (well, I guess you could say that my parents are my founders. Allah SWT as well). Also, I'm still not talking about slavery in Islamic history. I'm talking about slavery in Islamic law. And you said "Caliphates". Which Caliphate are you talking about?

[Frievolk]

No, you're talking about an economic system of wealth that has, historically speaking, been worse than anything comparable to it in other cultures at any time. It was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Roman slavery) back during your founder's time, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. European serfdom, chattel slavery) during the Caliphates and early Ottomans, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Trans-Atlantic Slavery) during late Ottomans, and it was only abolished recently (as recently as 1980) because non-Muslims knew better and forced you to.
Does it really matter what you are or aren't talking about? No. No it does not.

I don't have a founder (well, I guess you could say that my parents are my founders. Allah SWT as well). Also, I'm still not talking about slavery in Islamic history. I'm talking about slavery in Islamic law. And you said "Caliphates". Which Caliphate are you talking about?

Your [religion's] founder's caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, the Umavid Caliphate (which saw the height of early Islamic slavery) and the Abbasid Caliphate... the four canon Caliphates.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I don't have a founder (well, I guess you could say that my parents are my founders. Allah SWT as well). Also, I'm still not talking about slavery in Islamic history. I'm talking about slavery in Islamic law. And you said "Caliphates". Which Caliphate are you talking about?

Your [religion's] founder's caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, the Umavid Caliphate (which saw the height of early Islamic slavery) and the Abbasid Caliphate... the four canon Caliphates.

Allah SWT didn't found the Rashidun Khilafah. I'm not even sure if Prophet Muhammad SAWS founded it because he died before it was created. Also, I'm cool with discussing the Rashidun since they are relevant to what Al-Islam teaches. So if you wanna talk about historical Islamic slavery, let's talk about them. If you wanna talk about Islamic slavery according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, then let's not bring up Islamic history outside of the Prophet Muhammad SAWS and his time and the time of the Rashidun Khilafah.

[Saranidia]

Again, I'm not talking about history.

No, you're talking about an economic system of wealth that has, historically speaking, been worse than anything comparable to it in other cultures at any time. It was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Roman slavery) back during your founder's time, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. European serfdom, chattel slavery) during the Caliphates and early Ottomans, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Trans-Atlantic Slavery) during late Ottomans, and it was only abolished recently (as recently as 1980) because non-Muslims knew better and forced you to.
Does it really matter what you are or aren't talking about? No. No it does not.

Roman slavery was worse in my opinion since I remember reading anyone could rape a slave provided they didn't "damage the goods". In contrast Islam forbids slaves being forced into prostitution in Quran 24:33

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No, you're talking about an economic system of wealth that has, historically speaking, been worse than anything comparable to it in other cultures at any time. It was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Roman slavery) back during your founder's time, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. European serfdom, chattel slavery) during the Caliphates and early Ottomans, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Trans-Atlantic Slavery) during late Ottomans, and it was only abolished recently (as recently as 1980) because non-Muslims knew better and forced you to.
Does it really matter what you are or aren't talking about? No. No it does not.

Roman slavery was worse in my opinion since I remember reading anyone could rape a slave provided they didn't "damage the goods". In contrast Islam forbids slaves being forced into prostitution in Quran 24:33

And we can't rape slaves nor mistreat them in any way.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=el- ... id=1115203:

Slavery in Al-Islam:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1ubtoL95c
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9d6sZJRNYQ
https://islamqa.info/en/94840
http://islam-wa-sunnah.com/fatwa/index. ... definition
https://www.al-islam.org/slavery-from-i ... ks-slavery
http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/1174 ... of-slavery

[Dahyan]

Alhamdulillah. It seems like many of us on the forums are reverts.

Nice. How many years have you been?

For about four years now, I believe.