The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Alvecia]

I was in a Muslim discord server, and they actually "taught" that condoning slavery takes you out of the fold of Islam.

You sure they weren't supporting Islamic slavery?

They were teaching that condoning slavery was against Islam.

If they are teaching that, obviously they support Islamic slavery.

Let me say it more simply.

The server was teaching that Islamic slavery is sunnah, and if you were to think slavery was bad, then you would be out of/against Islam.

For the record, to condone something is to approve, accept, or sanction something.
So the statement "teaching that condoning slavery was against Islam" basically translates to "they were teaching that thinking slavery is okay is against Islam."
This is contradicted by the statement "The server was teaching [...] if you were to think slavery was [not okay], then you would be ... against Islam."

[A Leaf on the Wind]

They were teaching that condoning slavery was against Islam.

If they are teaching that, obviously they support Islamic slavery.

Let me say it more simply.

The server was teaching that Islamic slavery is sunnah, and if you were to think slavery was bad, then you would be out of/against Islam.

For the record, to condone something is to approve, accept, or sanction something.
So the statement "teaching that condoning slavery was against Islam" basically translates to "they were teaching that thinking slavery is okay is against Islam."
This is contradicted by the statement "The server was teaching [...] if you were to think slavery was [not okay], then you would be ... against Islam."

Yeah, I most definitely was using the wrong word, that's my fault. I'll go fix it, I meant to say condemning.

[Kowani]

No. No, they don’t. I don’t feel like explaining to you what I already explained for Aulas, so just read that again, will you?

Not interested in reading kufr.

So we can’t read statistics now. Wonderful.

I mean, considering so many rapes go unreported, and most people are decent human beings and would hopefully try to stop a rape that happens in front of them, there’s a reason rape doesn’t tend to happen with witnesses nearby. Additionally, we see from the JW how hard it is to get shit done with two witnesses, four is even worse. It’s almost like the rules were set up to screw women over...

1: You're assuming that witnesses are the only thing needed in a court of law.
2: I remember reading that rape victims don't necessarily need witnesses. But I can't remember for sure tho.[/quote]
1: I’m pointing out that the requirement of 4 witnesses is inane and detrimental.
2: If so, that’s good. Of course, you’d need a source to prove that.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

1: I’m pointing out that the requirement of 4 witnesses is inane and detrimental.

Says who?

2: If so, that’s good. Of course, you’d need a source to prove that.

I know.

[Genivaria]

1: I’m pointing out that the requirement of 4 witnesses is inane and detrimental.

Says who?

2: If so, that’s good. Of course, you’d need a source to prove that.

I know.

You know constantly going 'says who' is childish and stupid right?

[The Grims]

Thank you
So can someone change the topic title to the DHulm Discussion Thread ? Considering true pure followers of Islam do not exist.

What are you talking about?

Do you seriously not understand the implications of your own words ?

[Jolthig]

Says who?

I know.

You know constantly going 'says who' is childish and stupid right?

>Says he will put Amin on his ignore list days ago
>proceeds to respond to Amin

[El-Amin Caliphate]

What are you talking about?

Do you seriously not understand the implications of your own words ?

Considering that you stretched my words beyond what I meant, no.

Also, I found stuff about the witness-to-rape stuff:
http://muslimgirl.com/6728/do-women-nee ... rove-rape/, https://www.bismikaallahuma.org/polemic ... sses-rape/, and according to this source, if I'm reading it right, 4 witnesses are recommended, but not required.

[Genivaria]

You know constantly going 'says who' is childish and stupid right?

>Says he will put Amin on his ignore list days ago
>proceeds to respond to Amin

Meh it's too fun.

[Greater Cesnica]

>Says he will put Amin on his ignore list days ago
>proceeds to respond to Amin

Meh it's too fun.

It's actually kinda terrifying to know people like him exist.

So, Amin, this one's for you. In your hypothetical fairytale theocracy, Muslims and Non-Muslims would have rights, yet Muslims could hold Non-Muslim slaves but not the other way around?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Meh it's too fun.

It's actually kinda terrifying to know people like him exist.

So, Amin, this one's for you. In your hypothetical fairytale theocracy, Muslims and Non-Muslims would have rights, yet Muslims could hold Non-Muslim slaves but not the other way around?

I'm currently looking it up, this might take a while.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Well, Muslims could only enslave prisoners of war, who were usually non-Muslims. So we can only enslave non-Muslim POWs.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Here's stuff about whether Muslims can enslave other Muslims:

Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The reason for slavery is kufr and fighting against Allaah and His Messenger. When Allaah enables the Muslim mujaahideen who are offering their souls and their wealth, and fighting with all their strength and with what Allaah has given them to make the word of Allaah supreme over the kuffaar, then He makes them their property by means of slavery unless the ruler chooses to free them for nothing or for a ransom, if that serves the interests of the Muslims. End quote from Adwa’ al-Bayaan (3/387).

He also said:

If it is said: If the slave becomes Muslim then why keep him as a slave, when the reason for slavery is kufr and fighting against Allaah and His Messenger, so this reason no longer applies?

Which to me sounds kinds weird because there's accounts of Muslims being slaves of Muslims iirc, but then again, I remember a late Muslim historian (may Allah SWT bless him) saying the same (idk if he was a scholar though). I'll keep looking.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

This is what I could find

[Herskerstad]

Here's stuff about whether Muslims can enslave other Muslims:

Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The reason for slavery is kufr and fighting against Allaah and His Messenger. When Allaah enables the Muslim mujaahideen who are offering their souls and their wealth, and fighting with all their strength and with what Allaah has given them to make the word of Allaah supreme over the kuffaar, then He makes them their property by means of slavery unless the ruler chooses to free them for nothing or for a ransom, if that serves the interests of the Muslims. End quote from Adwa’ al-Bayaan (3/387).

He also said:

If it is said: If the slave becomes Muslim then why keep him as a slave, when the reason for slavery is kufr and fighting against Allaah and His Messenger, so this reason no longer applies?

Which to me sounds kinds weird because there's accounts of Muslims being slaves of Muslims iirc, but then again, I remember a late Muslim historian (may Allah SWT bless him) saying the same (idk if he was a scholar though). I'll keep looking.

Well Kufr is disbelief, so that would give license for Muslims to enslave others for no reason than disbelief.

And people wonder why I started critiquing Islam.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Here's stuff about whether Muslims can enslave other Muslims:

Which to me sounds kinds weird because there's accounts of Muslims being slaves of Muslims iirc, but then again, I remember a late Muslim historian (may Allah SWT bless him) saying the same (idk if he was a scholar though). I'll keep looking.

Well Kufr is disbelief, so that would give license for Muslims to enslave others for no reason than disbelief.

Except we can't.

[Herskerstad]

Well Kufr is disbelief, so that would give license for Muslims to enslave others for no reason than disbelief.

Except we can't.

Can't only because you have no power to do so. According to the source, had such been remedied, there would be nothing stopping such.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Except we can't.

Can't only because you have no power to do so. According to the source, had such been remedied, there would be nothing stopping such.

No, Muslims can't just raided non-Muslim areas and enslave people, that's un-Islamic and a war crime.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Can't only because you have no power to do so. According to the source, had such been remedied, there would be nothing stopping such.

No, Muslims can't just raided non-Muslim areas and enslave people, that's un-Islamic and a war crime.

History seems to show that they didn't give a crap about whether raiding non-Islamic populations and enslaving them was bad or not.

[Kubumba Tribe]

No, Muslims can't just raided non-Muslim areas and enslave people, that's un-Islamic and a war crime.

History seems to show that they didn't give a crap about whether raiding non-Islamic populations and enslaving them was bad or not.

I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about Shari'ah.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

History seems to show that they didn't give a crap about whether raiding non-Islamic populations and enslaving them was bad or not.

I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about Shari'ah.

Islamic history shows how Shariah was TRULY applied, not your "idealistic" version of it.

Breaking news, human beings will be massive jerks regardless of whatever their god says.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about Shari'ah.

Islamic history shows how Shariah was TRULY applied, not your "idealistic" version of it.

Shari'ah is only truly applied when people enforce what's in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

Breaking news, human beings will be massive jerks regardless of whatever God says.

Yeah, and we're wrong for that.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Can't only because you have no power to do so. According to the source, had such been remedied, there would be nothing stopping such.

No, Muslims can't just raided non-Muslim areas and enslave people, that's un-Islamic and a war crime.

Know what else is a war crime? Enslaving POWs. But it's alright "cUz AlLaH sAyS"

[Kubumba Tribe]

No, Muslims can't just raided non-Muslim areas and enslave people, that's un-Islamic and a war crime.

Know what else is a war crime? Enslaving POWs. But it's alright "cUz AlLaH sAyS"

Correct. So it's not a war crime. Well, at least if it's Islamic enslavement it isn't.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

No, Muslims can't just raided non-Muslim areas and enslave people, that's un-Islamic and a war crime.

Know what else is a war crime? Enslaving POWs. But it's alright "cUz AlLaH sAyS"

Y'know, one would wonder at times if Allah himself would approve of all of this.