The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Jolthig]

Some may have fled the region, some chose on their own and Some pagans did convert for political reasons without being sincere. Still, no pagan was killed for being pagan.

Can I have a Jolthig at my local masjid? Thanks!

Sure! I'd be more than happy to come.

*presses x to doubt until button is broken*

While I am the first to criticize Islam when the criticism is warranted this is not one of those cases.
Islam's early treatment of non-Muslims was...fair for its day.

The Arab conquerors did not repeat the mistake made by the Byzantine and Sasanian empires, who had tried and failed to impose an official religion on subject populations, which had caused resentments that made the Muslim conquests more acceptable to them.[165] Instead, the rulers of the new empire generally respected the traditional middle-Eastern pattern of religious pluralism, which was not one of equality but rather of dominance by one group over the others.[165] After the end of military operations, which involved sacking of some monasteries and confiscation of Zoroastrian fire temples in Syria and Iraq, the early caliphate was characterized by religious tolerance and peoples of all ethnicities and religions blended in public life.[166] Before Muslims were ready to build mosques in Syria, they accepted Christian churches as holy places and shared them with local Christians.[147] In Iraq and Egypt, Muslim authorities cooperated with Christian religious leaders.[147] Numerous churches were repaired and new ones built during the Umayyad era.[167]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Mus ... on-Muslims

Exactly.

[Greater Cesnica]

*presses x to doubt until button is broken*

While I am the first to criticize Islam when the criticism is warranted this is not one of those cases.
Islam's early treatment of non-Muslims was...fair for its day.

The Arab conquerors did not repeat the mistake made by the Byzantine and Sasanian empires, who had tried and failed to impose an official religion on subject populations, which had caused resentments that made the Muslim conquests more acceptable to them.[165] Instead, the rulers of the new empire generally respected the traditional middle-Eastern pattern of religious pluralism, which was not one of equality but rather of dominance by one group over the others.[165] After the end of military operations, which involved sacking of some monasteries and confiscation of Zoroastrian fire temples in Syria and Iraq, the early caliphate was characterized by religious tolerance and peoples of all ethnicities and religions blended in public life.[166] Before Muslims were ready to build mosques in Syria, they accepted Christian churches as holy places and shared them with local Christians.[147] In Iraq and Egypt, Muslim authorities cooperated with Christian religious leaders.[147] Numerous churches were repaired and new ones built during the Umayyad era.[167]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Mus ... on-Muslims

Am I a pussy for shedding a tear while reading this? I'm so... furious that that Golden Islamic Era, the Early Caliphate, did not carry on through the millennia up to today.

[Genivaria]

Can I have a Jolthig at my local masjid? Thanks!

Sure! I'd be more than happy to come.

While I am the first to criticize Islam when the criticism is warranted this is not one of those cases.
Islam's early treatment of non-Muslims was...fair for its day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Mus ... on-Muslims

Exactly.

However the article does go on to say...

Those Christians out of favor with the prevailing orthodoxy in the Roman empire often preferred to live under Muslim rule as it meant the end of persecution.[174] As both the Jewish and Christian communities of the Levant and North Africa were better educated than their conquerors, in the early years of the caliphate were often employed as civil servants.[175] However, a reported saying of the Prophet Mohammad that "Two religions may not dwell together in Arabia" led to different policies being pursued in Arabia with conversion to Islam being imposed rather than merely encouraged.[176] With the notable exception of Yemen, where a large Jewish community existed right up until the middle of the 20th century, all of the Christian and Jewish communities in Arabia "completely disappeared".[177] The Jewish community of Yemen seems to have survived as Yemen was not regarded as part of Arabia proper in the same way that the Hejaz and the Nejd were.[178]

[Kaggeceria]

What the fuck is wrong with you? So you condone Islamic slavery? Yeah, no, fuck that. This is 2018. We moved past these ideals a long time ago.

Current year argument is bad.

But you said you support everything in the Quran.

So you support Islamic slavery.

In that I don't really support it being banned, no. But the actual practice of it, I'm neutral.

This is your brain on religion - atrocities are virtuous if you paint them with the brush of your faith.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1ubtoL95c, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9d6sZJRNYQ

Not all religious people are like this lol

This is your brain on religious extremism.

Following your religious text =/= religious extremism

I'm assuming that in your pathetic, theoretical caliphate you would allow for the enslavement of non-Muslims.

And you are an extremist. Many Muslims don't support slavery. You do.

"b-but I'm neutral on it fam"

No. You said you support everything in the Quran. Slavery is in the Quran. You support slavery.

[Jolthig]

Sure! I'd be more than happy to come.


Exactly.

However the article does go on to say...

Those Christians out of favor with the prevailing orthodoxy in the Roman empire often preferred to live under Muslim rule as it meant the end of persecution.[174] As both the Jewish and Christian communities of the Levant and North Africa were better educated than their conquerors, in the early years of the caliphate were often employed as civil servants.[175] However, a reported saying of the Prophet Mohammad that "Two religions may not dwell together in Arabia" led to different policies being pursued in Arabia with conversion to Islam being imposed rather than merely encouraged.[176] With the notable exception of Yemen, where a large Jewish community existed right up until the middle of the 20th century, all of the Christian and Jewish communities in Arabia "completely disappeared".[177] The Jewish community of Yemen seems to have survived as Yemen was not regarded as part of Arabia proper in the same way that the Hejaz and the Nejd were.[178]

This view is correct. The Jews and Christians we're expelled from the Arabian Peninsula because of continuous conflicts between them and the Muslims. Umar kicked them out. They were allowed to practice in other regions.

[Greater Cesnica]

Sure! I'd be more than happy to come.


Exactly.

However the article does go on to say...

Those Christians out of favor with the prevailing orthodoxy in the Roman empire often preferred to live under Muslim rule as it meant the end of persecution.[174] As both the Jewish and Christian communities of the Levant and North Africa were better educated than their conquerors, in the early years of the caliphate were often employed as civil servants.[175] However, a reported saying of the Prophet Mohammad that "Two religions may not dwell together in Arabia" led to different policies being pursued in Arabia with conversion to Islam being imposed rather than merely encouraged.[176] With the notable exception of Yemen, where a large Jewish community existed right up until the middle of the 20th century, all of the Christian and Jewish communities in Arabia "completely disappeared".[177] The Jewish community of Yemen seems to have survived as Yemen was not regarded as part of Arabia proper in the same way that the Hejaz and the Nejd were.[178]

And the religious extremist elements lunged at this, and decided to implement their backwards rhetoric on the land.

[Greater Cesnica]

Current year argument is bad.

In that I don't really support it being banned, no. But the actual practice of it, I'm neutral.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1ubtoL95c, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9d6sZJRNYQ

Following your religious text =/= religious extremism

I'm assuming that in your pathetic, theoretical caliphate you would allow for the enslavement of non-Muslims.

And you are an extremist. Many Muslims don't support slavery. You do.

"b-but I'm neutral on it fam"

No. You said you support everything in the Quran. Slavery is in the Quran. You support slavery.

His theoretical caliphate shall remain, thank God, just that. A theory.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

True, as with the case of al-Qaeda, ISIS, and Taliban

Didn't al-Qaeda make money off of the drug trade?
Heroine right?

Afghanistan is the largest producer of opium in the world. 90% of illicit heroin originates there. It's an industry worth about $4 billion in exports and employs 400,000 Afghans.

It's relationship towards Afghan extremist groups is actually complicated. From 2000 to their deposition, they were fervently anti-opium. Mullah Omar cooperated extensively with the UN to eradicate it in Afghanistan and declared it un-Islamic. It resulted in a 99% drop in opium production in Taliban controlled areas (a 75% drop worldwide).

Since the fall of the Taliban, opium production has largely recovered with their being allegations that Karzai's government provided protection towards its production and that the US military largely largely turns a blind eye to it. Since 2008, it is even alleged that the Taliban has done a complete 180 and now a large portion of their income comes from opium production. Same with their partners, al-Qaeda. Mostly in the Taliban-controlled southern regions where a UN official described as "There is no rule of law in most of the southern parts of Afghanistan—the bullets rule."

[El-Amin Caliphate]

As for the religious extremism =/= following faith B.S

It's not bs.

you just gave ammo to people who oppose Islam.

Am I supposed to care?

[Jolthig]

As for the religious extremism =/= following faith B.S

It's not bs.

you just gave ammo to people who oppose Islam.

Am I supposed to care?

We should. Not because they're correct, but because we can form better arguments that debunk them.

[Greater Cesnica]

As for the religious extremism =/= following faith B.S

It's not bs.

you just gave ammo to people who oppose Islam.

Am I supposed to care?

Yep. You give Islam a bad rep. You have stone-age views that I'm appalled someone could hold in this day and age.

[Greater Cesnica]

It's not bs.

Am I supposed to care?

We should. Not because they're correct, but because we can form better arguments that debunk them.

Oh, but Amin doesn't care, because he believes his faith doesn't need to be explained to the infidels.

[Jolthig]

We should. Not because they're correct, but because we can form better arguments that debunk them.

Oh, but Amin doesn't care, because he believes his faith doesn't need to be explained to the infidels.

I know

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Idk where you got that from.

From you.

How?

I'm neutral on Islamic slavery. Other types of slavery, I'm against.

Lmao, it being "Islamic™" doesn't make it suddenly better.
You're aware the Arabs took as much """Afrikans""" (if not more depending on the estimations) as slave as the Europeans did with the added bonus that they cut their dicks and balls off?
Are you OK with that shit despite it being on a whole fucking other level of fucked up than the triangular trade was?

I don't support Arab slavery.

I left that a good amount of years ago.
Like, seriously, that was when I 1st joined the forum, and I didn't even say anything about black supremacy.

And, is that supposed to redeem yourself? You LITERALLY DON'T WANT ISLAMIC SLAVERY TO BE BANNED.

Correct.

Current year argument is bad.

In that I don't really support it being banned, no. But the actual practice of it, I'm neutral.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1ubtoL95c, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9d6sZJRNYQ

Following your religious text =/= religious extremism

I'm assuming that in your pathetic, theoretical caliphate

How would it be pathetic?

you would allow for the enslavement of non-Muslims.

People can only become enslaved if they are PoWs.

And you are an extremist. Many Muslims don't support slavery. You do.

The amount of support something has doesn't make someone an extremist.

"b-but I'm neutral on it fam"

No. You said you support everything in the Quran. Slavery is in the Quran. You support slavery.

*Islamic slavery, don't forget that word. And I'm neutral on the practice of it.

It's not bs.

Am I supposed to care?

We should. Not because they're correct, but because we can form better arguments that debunk them.

Point made.

It's not bs.

Am I supposed to care?

Yep. You give Islam a bad rep.

To who?

You have stone-age views that I'm appalled someone could hold in this day and age.

Current year argument is bad.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

We should. Not because they're correct, but because we can form better arguments that debunk them.

Oh, but Amin doesn't care, because he believes his faith doesn't need to be explained to the infidels.

Where did I say that?

[Greater Cesnica]

Oh, but Amin doesn't care, because he believes his faith doesn't need to be explained to the infidels.

I know

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

[Greater Cesnica]

Oh, but Amin doesn't care, because he believes his faith doesn't need to be explained to the infidels.

Where did I say that?

I'm too busy doing actual IRL work and multitasking to respond to this thread to subject myself to a pointless search for something that you said. You've done this before.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I know

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Where?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

People can only become enslaved if they are PoWs.

[New haven america]

I know

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

Keep in mind that he spells Africa as "Afrika" because he believes the C is racist and a product of Western imperialism. (And let's just ignore the fact that Germany and Belgium, 2 imperial powers in Africa, spell it Afrika...)

You're not going to reason with him, he incapable of doing so.

[New haven america]

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Where?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

People can only become enslaved if they are PoWs.

So you do support Yazidi slavery.

[Greater Cesnica]

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Where?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

People can only become enslaved if they are PoWs.

ISIS is fighting a war against the Kurds and Yazidis.

also, I decided to do this thing.

"No one can convert anyone to Al-Islam except Allah SWT."

Also, saying that SLAVERY IS PERMISSIBLE IS EXTREMIST RHETORIC.

[Negarakita]

I know

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

He's scaring me away from the faith.

[Greater Cesnica]

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

Keep in mind that he spells Africa as "Afrika" because he believes the C is racist and a product of Western imperialism. (And let's just ignore the fact that Germany and Belgium, 2 imperial powers in Africa, spell it Afrika...)

You're not going to reason with him, he incapable of doing so.

He's a special kind of special.

[Greater Cesnica]

It's sad dude. How can someone, say you, maintain their belief while also being a rational person, while someone like Amin espouses extremist rhetoric?

Does he support the enslavement of Yazidis? They are non-Muslim, right?

He's scaring me away from the faith.

I got scared away from the faith a while back. Jolthig is attempting to coax me back to Ahmadiyyat, but Amin keeps scaring me off, along with all the news from the Middle East, and Europe.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Where?

ISIS is fighting a war against the Kurds and Yazidis.

I meant a just war.

Also, saying that SLAVERY IS PERMISSIBLE IS EXTREMIST RHETORIC.

To who?