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The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What denomination of Islam are you part of?

Sunni Islam
121
30%
Sunni Islam (Salafism)
16
4%
Shia Islam
29
7%
Quranist
9
2%
Ahmadiyya
4
1%
Zaydi
8
2%
Ibadist
4
1%
Sufism
22
6%
I do not ascribe to any sect, just call me a Muslim
68
17%
Other
118
30%
 
Total votes : 399

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Western Vale Confederacy
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Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:03 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:Egypt and Iraq, too.

Special attention given to the Coptics... :(


The Copts really don't deserve being mistreated by their fellow Egyptian brothers just because they practice a different religion (which, just as a reminder, was present in Egypt longer than Islam was).

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Greater Cesnica
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Posts: 8934
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:04 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:Special attention given to the Coptics... :(


The Copts really don't deserve being mistreated by their fellow Egyptian brothers just because they practice a different religion (which, just as a reminder, was present in Egypt longer than Islam was).

Yep. They're completely harmless and peaceful.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:07 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I didn't say that. You said that homosexuals get lashed for being homosexual, which is not the case in Al-Islam. I said that if that was the reason why they were lashed in a Muslim-majority country, it should be changed to the Islamic judgement of lashing for illegal sexual intercourse, in this case being homosexual sex.

But then what's wrong with homosexual sex?

https://onepathnetwork.com/why-is-homos ... -in-islam/
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
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https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:09 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:But then what's wrong with homosexual sex?

https://onepathnetwork.com/why-is-homos ... -in-islam/

I'm asking about YOUR personal belief and justification. Not you parroting Islamic Theology.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:10 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:No they don't.


So you don't support whipping people for having consensual sex?

I do.
Greater Cesnica wrote:

I'm asking about YOUR personal belief and justification. Not you parroting Islamic Theology.

I don't put my opinions into Al-Islam, or anything related to it. Also, you didn't specify that. But regardless if you did or not, I wouldn't give it.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Greater Cesnica
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Posts: 8934
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:11 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
So you don't support whipping people for having consensual sex?

I do.
Greater Cesnica wrote:I'm asking about YOUR personal belief and justification. Not you parroting Islamic Theology.

I don't put my opinions into Al-Islam, or anything related to it. Also, you didn't specify that. But regardless if you did or not, I wouldn't give it.

So... You would support two people caught having gay sex being whipped?

Lovely.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53359
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:11 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
So you don't support whipping people for having consensual sex?

I do.


Great, and that's disgusting and no different from whipping people for who they are.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Western Vale Confederacy
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Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:11 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
So you don't support whipping people for having consensual sex?

I do.
Greater Cesnica wrote:I'm asking about YOUR personal belief and justification. Not you parroting Islamic Theology.

I don't put my opinions into Al-Islam, or anything related to it. Also, you didn't specify that. But regardless if you did or not, I wouldn't give it.


You're sounding as if Allah himself prohibits you to have an opinion, which is stupid.

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Greater Cesnica
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Posts: 8934
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:12 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I do.


Great, and that's disgusting and no different from whipping people for who they are.

So he supports whipping my bisexual partner.
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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Firearm Rights are Human Rights
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53359
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:13 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Great, and that's disgusting and no different from whipping people for who they are.

So he supports whipping my bisexual partner.


100 times, yes.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:14 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I do.


Great, and that's disgusting and no different from whipping people for who they are.

Actually it is. Urges are not prohibited, the actions are.
Greater Cesnica wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Great, and that's disgusting and no different from whipping people for who they are.

So he supports whipping my bisexual partner.

Is she Muslim?
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
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Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:15 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Great, and that's disgusting and no different from whipping people for who they are.

So he supports whipping my bisexual partner.


Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but as a bisexual, my back would also be bleeding from the lashes.

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:17 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:So he supports whipping my bisexual partner.


Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but as a bisexual, my back would also be bleeding from the lashes.

https://islamqa.info/en/13233
Not that this applies to you anyway because you aren't Muslim, just correcting any misunderstandings.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
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Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:19 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but as a bisexual, my back would also be bleeding from the lashes.

https://islamqa.info/en/13233
Not that this applies to you anyway because you aren't Muslim, just correcting any misunderstandings.


You are misunderstood if you think that I would not actively protect any Muslim being """punished""" (more abused/beaten) by fighting back.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:21 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:https://islamqa.info/en/13233
Not that this applies to you anyway because you aren't Muslim, just correcting any misunderstandings.


You are misunderstood if you think that I would not actively protect any Muslim being """punished""" (more abused/beaten) by fighting back.

Then you'd go to jail for obstruction of justice.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Sahansahiye Iran
Minister
 
Posts: 2386
Founded: May 14, 2018
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Postby Sahansahiye Iran » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:22 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
You are misunderstood if you think that I would not actively protect any Muslim being """punished""" (more abused/beaten) by fighting back.

Then you'd go to jail for obstruction of justice.

"justice"
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Western Vale Confederacy
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Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:22 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
You are misunderstood if you think that I would not actively protect any Muslim being """punished""" (more abused/beaten) by fighting back.

Then you'd go to jail for obstruction of justice.


Again, I do not follow Islamic law, I follow secular law, so frankly, your concept of punishment is worthless to me, for I only submit to SECULAR arrest.

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The Empire of Pretantia
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Posts: 39273
Founded: Oct 18, 2012
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:24 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
You are misunderstood if you think that I would not actively protect any Muslim being """punished""" (more abused/beaten) by fighting back.

Then you'd go to jail for obstruction of justice.

"Justice"
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Dahon
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Founded: Nov 11, 2015
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Postby Dahon » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:25 pm

Just dropping by to say portraying whipping in a positive light is a horrid look.
Authoritarianism kills all. Never forget that.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:25 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:Amin, I know you can't because I've had this same discussion with you several times, dude. I don't have to search your posts. Here's one: if a spouse leaves Islam, should he/she be forced to leave their Muslim spouse?

https://islamqa.info/en/134339, https://darululoomtt.net/married-leaves-islam/

In other words, "yes, he/she should." You're not very smart, are you? You're supposed to be arguing against the idea that sharia is punitive and unfair, not confirming it.

BTW, incest is best.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:28 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I do.


Great, and that's disgusting and no different from whipping people for who they are.

The libertarian WRA is still in there!
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 21 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:28 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:Remind me what the punishment is in Al-Islam for leaving it

None
Greater Cesnica wrote:and for having lesbian sex?

Same for other forms of illegal sexual intercourse

Oh. I guess the "you and your partner won't get punished" thing didn't last long.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 21 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:29 pm

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Then you'd go to jail for obstruction of justice.

"justice"


I find it quite ironic that he says that non-Muslims would not be subject to Islamic law, only to state that a non-Muslim would be punished in accordance to Islamic law for preventing a Muslim from getting a "punishment".

My sides are in fucking orbit.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:38 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Then you'd go to jail for obstruction of justice.


Again, I do not follow Islamic law, I follow secular law, so frankly, your concept of punishment is worthless to me, for I only submit to SECULAR arrest.

This has nothing to do with enforcing Islamic Law on you, it has to do with obstruction of justice, which you will be sent to jail for of you lived in an Islamic nation. That's not even the Islamic punishment for obstruction of justice.
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:

Oh. I guess the "you and your partner won't get punished" thing didn't last long.

Muslims who do haram things will be punished.
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:only to state that a non-Muslim would be punished in accordance to Islamic law

Show me where I said that.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24520
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:23 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Again, I do not follow Islamic law, I follow secular law, so frankly, your concept of punishment is worthless to me, for I only submit to SECULAR arrest.

This has nothing to do with enforcing Islamic Law on you, it has to do with obstruction of justice, which you will be sent to jail for of you lived in an Islamic nation. That's not even the Islamic punishment for obstruction of justice.
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oh. I guess the "you and your partner won't get punished" thing didn't last long.

Muslims who do haram things will be punished.
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:only to state that a non-Muslim would be punished in accordance to Islamic law

Show me where I said that.

So what about the case of to use an example of a poster on this thread, a person who leaves the Muslim faith and engages in gay sex?
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