The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Kubumba Tribe]

was Zeno of Citium possibly a prophet of Allah? he said that there is a divine will controlling everything in the universe and that morality lay in submission(in Arabic Islam) to this divine will through reason and the control of passions.

...

...please don't try to assimilate the historical figures of other cultures into the Islamic narrative, it is a bit distasteful...

He/she might be right. There are many prophets AS not referred to in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

[The New California Republic]

...

...please don't try to assimilate the historical figures of other cultures into the Islamic narrative, it is a bit distasteful...

How?

Cultural misappropriation. And in this instance it is sorely misplaced to start with.

[Kubumba Tribe]

How?

Cultural misappropriation. And in this instance it is sorely misplaced to start with.

It's not any of that. If that man said that and claimed to be a sign from Allah SWT, that's strong evidence that he was a prophet of Allah SWT.

[The New California Republic]

Cultural misappropriation. And in this instance it is sorely misplaced to start with.

It's not any of that. If that man said that and claimed to be a sign from Allah SWT, that's strong evidence that he was a prophet of Allah SWT.

...

...please don't try to assimilate the historical figures of other cultures into the Islamic narrative, it is a bit distasteful...

He/she might be right. There are many prophets AS not referred to in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

Sorry, but trying to appropriate Zeno of Citium into Islam as a prophet is fucking stupid. Let him be the founder of Stoicism, don't try to create some distorted pre-Islamic prophet caricature out of him.

[Frievolk]

It's not any of that. If that man said that and claimed to be a sign from Allah SWT, that's strong evidence that he was a prophet of Allah SWT.

He/she might be right. There are many prophets AS not referred to in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

Sorry, but trying to appropriate Zeno of Citium into Islam as a prophet is fucking stupid. Let him be the founder of Stoicism, don't try to create some distorted pre-Islamic prophet caricature out of him.

Islam does that to a lot of mythical figurines though. Zeno of Citium isn't the only person they've "Islamified", so to say.

[Greater Cesnica]

Sorry, but trying to appropriate Zeno of Citium into Islam as a prophet is fucking stupid. Let him be the founder of Stoicism, don't try to create some distorted pre-Islamic prophet caricature out of him.

Islam does that to a lot of mythical figurines though. Zeno of Citium isn't the only person they've "Islamified", so to say.

Doesn't mean it's less disrespectful.

[Frievolk]

Islam does that to a lot of mythical figurines though. Zeno of Citium isn't the only person they've "Islamified", so to say.

Doesn't mean it's less disrespectful.

I know. It isn't just disrespectful. The Muslims try their best to kill off the cultures that had these figurines before "Islamifying" them, which is kinda a point of irritation for me (i.e. Zoroastrianism and how it got treated by the Muslims throughout Iranian History.)

[Jolthig]

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor. And Muslims oppressing people of other faiths has nothing to do with this topic. They're two different things. I advocate for no oppression of other peoples.

[Proctopeo]

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor. And Muslims oppressing people of other faiths has nothing to do with this topic. They're two different things. I advocate for no oppression of other peoples.

There's not really any reason to believe they're prophets besides "they say things vaguely prophet-like, if you look the right way".

Speaking of which, I have just founded a new religion inspired by Suleiman the Great, called "Having a Love-Hate Relationship with Venice".

[The New California Republic]

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor.

Zeno of Citium was never a prophet in the first place. That label is being unjustly forced upon him ex post facto. Doing that can be interpreted as being disrespectful.

[Jolthig]

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor. And Muslims oppressing people of other faiths has nothing to do with this topic. They're two different things. I advocate for no oppression of other peoples.

There's not really any reason to believe they're prophets besides "they say things vaguely prophet-like, if you look the right way".

Speaking of which, I have just founded a new religion inspired by Suleiman the Great, called "Having a Love-Hate Relationship with Venice".

If their teachings or parts of it anyway don't contradict the Quran, then I see no problem with it.

[Proctopeo]

There's not really any reason to believe they're prophets besides "they say things vaguely prophet-like, if you look the right way".

Speaking of which, I have just founded a new religion inspired by Suleiman the Great, called "Having a Love-Hate Relationship with Venice".

If their teachings or parts of it anyway don't contradict the Quran, then I see no problem with it.

That's rather self-centered.

[Frievolk]

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor. And Muslims oppressing people of other faiths has nothing to do with this topic. They're two different things. I advocate for no oppression of other peoples.

That's just it. At the risk of the usual Right-Wing crowd popping up here to call me off, the situation here is just like any other time cultural misapropriation happens.
The Muslim calls Zardosht "A Prophet", and he just forgets how Zoroastrianism was essentially victim of an open genocide by the Muslims (so much that the number of adherents to the religion is like, less than one million at this day and age).

[Kubumba Tribe]

It's not any of that. If that man said that and claimed to be a sign from Allah SWT, that's strong evidence that he was a prophet of Allah SWT.

He/she might be right. There are many prophets AS not referred to in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

Sorry, but trying to appropriate Zeno of Citium into Islam as a prophet is stupid. Let him be the founder of Stoicism, don't try to create some distorted pre-Islamic prophet caricature out of him.

Did he preach monotheism and did he claim prophethood?

[Astoriya]

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor. And Muslims oppressing people of other faiths has nothing to do with this topic. They're two different things. I advocate for no oppression of other peoples.

That's just it. At the risk of the usual Right-Wing crowd popping up here to call me off, the situation here is just like any other time cultural misapropriation happens.
The Muslim calls Zardosht "A Prophet", and he just forgets how Zoroastrianism was essentially victim of an open genocide by the Muslims (so much that the number of adherents to the religion is like, less than one million at this day and age).

Although said genocide was done by fanatics, which are a completely different kettle of fish imo

[Kubumba Tribe]

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor.

Zeno of Citium was never a prophet in the first place. That label is being unjustly forced upon him ex post facto. Doing that can be interpreted as being disrespectful.

To who? Who's it disrespectful to?

[The New California Republic]

Sorry, but trying to appropriate Zeno of Citium into Islam as a prophet is stupid. Let him be the founder of Stoicism, don't try to create some distorted pre-Islamic prophet caricature out of him.

Did he preach monotheism and did he claim prophethood?

No.

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Zeno of Citium was never a prophet in the first place. That label is being unjustly forced upon him ex post facto. Doing that can be interpreted as being disrespectful.

To who? Who's it disrespectful to?

To the culture that the historical figure is trying to be misappropriated from. It's like how it would be disrespectful to British culture if Islam tried to misappropriate Bertrand Russell as a prophet or some other figure like that.

[Jolthig]

If their teachings or parts of it anyway don't contradict the Quran, then I see no problem with it.

That's rather self-centered.

Not self-centered.

It's not about disrespect. It's about giving past prophets back their honor. And Muslims oppressing people of other faiths has nothing to do with this topic. They're two different things. I advocate for no oppression of other peoples.

That's just it. At the risk of the usual Right-Wing crowd popping up here to call me off, the situation here is just like any other time cultural misapropriation happens.
The Muslim calls Zardosht "A Prophet", and he just forgets how Zoroastrianism was essentially victim of an open genocide by the Muslims (so much that the number of adherents to the religion is like, less than one million at this day and age).

And this is where you strawman my position. I never once denied that Muslims were killing Zoroastrians. Nor did I disrespect Zarathrusta.

[Frievolk]

That's just it. At the risk of the usual Right-Wing crowd popping up here to call me off, the situation here is just like any other time cultural misapropriation happens.
The Muslim calls Zardosht "A Prophet", and he just forgets how Zoroastrianism was essentially victim of an open genocide by the Muslims (so much that the number of adherents to the religion is like, less than one million at this day and age).

Although said genocide was done by fanatics, which are a completely different kettle of fish imo

No. It was not done by "fanatics". That is like saying The Genocide of the Aztecs was done by "fanatic" colonialists. There is no different kettle of fish.

[Proctopeo]

That's rather self-centered.

Not self-centered.

How is it not?

[Jolthig]

Not self-centered.

How is it not?

It isn't selfish to hold a view that someone can be a prophet of Islam.

[Frievolk]

How is it not?

It isn't selfish to hold a view that someone can be a prophet of Islam.

It is when he (or she) is not of your culture. It is extremely self-centered, offensive, and in some cases flat out dangerous, in my personal opinion.

[Kowani]

How is it not?

It isn't selfish to hold a view that someone can be a prophet of Islam.

It rather is, if that person wasn’t actually Muslim. You can argue the case a bit more, with the early Jewish prophets or Jesus, since Allah and Yahweh are the same being, but you are not just naming someone’s views posthumously (That would be like calling Socrates a rationalist, since the term came about after he died), but rather changing them to fit your narrative. (To keep with the above example, this would be like claiming Socrates was a Social Democrat)

[Jolthig]

It isn't selfish to hold a view that someone can be a prophet of Islam.

It is when he (or she) is not of your culture. It is extremely self-centered, offensive, and in some cases flat out dangerous, in my personal opinion.

No it is not. It gives honor to the respective person of that religion. And I think I'll have to take the position of Amin this time: I really couldn't careless if it's offensive to other people. What matters is if their teachings are in accordance with the Qu'ran or not. It matters what Allah reveals.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Did he preach monotheism and did he claim prophethood?

No.

If so, he's not a prophet.

To the culture that the historical figure is trying to be misappropriated from. It's like how it would be disrespectful to British culture if Islam tried to misappropriate Bertrand Russell as a prophet or some other figure like that.

Allah SWT > culture