The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Jolthig]

A lot of the middle east has been influenced by Salafism or Sunni fundamentalist ideologies as is the case of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan

You can check out my signature for the Ahmadiyya interpretation of Islam.

Very interesting. Are you a devout Muslim?

A devout Ahmadi Muslim, that is.

[Lisbane]

Very interesting. Are you a devout Muslim?

A devout Ahmadi Muslim, that is.

Where do you derive your believe from? As in, with me - I am an atheist, as I see no reason or evidence for god's existence (Allah if you prefer). If had to tell me what experiences or thoughts made you believe devoutly in that sect of Islam, what would they be?

[Greater Cesnica]

Whilst I don't like Islam in the sense it is a religion, I do believe an overwhelming majority of Muslims are just normal people. What I cannot support is Middle Eastern & Asian Islam's (different from what I consider Western Islam's) views on homosexuality, and crime in general. Like the Bible, sometimes I think Muslims take the Quran and other Holy Scripture much to literally or seriously. I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this.

A lot of the middle east has been influenced by Salafism or Sunni fundamentalist ideologies as is the case of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan

You can check out my signature for the Ahmadiyya interpretation of Islam.

The Salafist School of Thought espouses a fundamentalist, literal interpretation of the Quran that is completely incompatible with the 21st century.

[Jolthig]

A lot of the middle east has been influenced by Salafism or Sunni fundamentalist ideologies as is the case of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan

You can check out my signature for the Ahmadiyya interpretation of Islam.

The Salafist School of Thought espouses a fundamentalist, literal interpretation of the Quran that is completely incompatible with the 21st century.

Agreed.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Whilst I don't like Islam in the sense it is a religion, I do believe an overwhelming majority of Muslims are just normal people. What I cannot support is Middle Eastern & Asian Islam's (different from what I consider Western Islam's) views on homosexuality, and crime in general. Like the Bible, sometimes I think Muslims take the Quran and other Holy Scripture much to literally or seriously. I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this.

There's no such thing as any of those 'Islams'. Al-Islam is as according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not hemispheres nor countries of the world.

[Jolthig]

Whilst I don't like Islam in the sense it is a religion, I do believe an overwhelming majority of Muslims are just normal people. What I cannot support is Middle Eastern & Asian Islam's (different from what I consider Western Islam's) views on homosexuality, and crime in general. Like the Bible, sometimes I think Muslims take the Quran and other Holy Scripture much to literally or seriously. I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this.

There's no such thing as any of those 'Islams'. Al-Islam is as according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not hemispheres nor countries of the world.

True but there are different interpretations of Islam according to demographics, but not according to the Quran or Sunnah like you said.

[Jolthig]

A devout Ahmadi Muslim, that is.

Where do you derive your believe from? As in, with me - I am an atheist, as I see no reason or evidence for god's existence (Allah if you prefer). If had to tell me what experiences or thoughts made you believe devoutly in that sect of Islam, what would they be?

A variety of things. My admiration for Islamic teaching of moderation, Muhammads example of personality, the founder of Ahmadiyyat. Etc.

I myself used to be an atheist

[Jolthig]

Mohammad Tawhidi is very inconsistent "scholar". He doesn't know what his views are with his pathological lying.

[Saranidia]

Where do you derive your believe from? As in, with me - I am an atheist, as I see no reason or evidence for god's existence (Allah if you prefer). If had to tell me what experiences or thoughts made you believe devoutly in that sect of Islam, what would they be?

A variety of things. My admiration for Islamic teaching of moderation, Muhammads example of personality, the founder of Ahmadiyyat. Etc.

I myself used to be an atheist

maybe tell him what you feel proves the existence of God to you.

Mash Allah that you converted to Islam.

[Frievolk]

A variety of things. My admiration for Islamic teaching of moderation, Muhammads example of personality, the founder of Ahmadiyyat. Etc.

I myself used to be an atheist

maybe tell him what you feel proves the existence of God to you.

Mash Allah that you converted to Islam.

I really want to make a mash Allah joke, but I find it might be seen as too offensive

[Saranidia]

maybe tell him what you feel proves the existence of God to you.

Mash Allah that you converted to Islam.

I really want to make a mash Allah joke, but I find it might be seen as too offensive

very polite of you.

we should hold a vote as to whether jokes on such topics are welcome in this thread.

[Greater Cesnica]

I really want to make a mash Allah joke, but I find it might be seen as too offensive

very polite of you.

we should hold a vote as to whether jokes on such topics are welcome in this thread.

It's humor. If it's not meant to offend, it shouldn't be offensive.

[Saranidia]

very polite of you.

we should hold a vote as to whether jokes on such topics are welcome in this thread.

It's humor. If it's not meant to offend, it shouldn't be offensive.

I agree but with you it would be meant to offend lol.

I will offer classes for anti-Muslims on Islam in this thread at least twice a week(saturday and thursday, if your jewish then you can have classes on sunday instead).

[The Eternal Aulus]

Whilst I don't like Islam in the sense it is a religion, I do believe an overwhelming majority of Muslims are just normal people. What I cannot support is Middle Eastern & Asian Islam's (different from what I consider Western Islam's) views on homosexuality, and crime in general. Like the Bible, sometimes I think Muslims take the Quran and other Holy Scripture much to literally or seriously. I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this.

What is Western Islam?

And too seriously? It's the direct voice of our Creator who talked to the Prophet Muhammed saws. It's literally instructions for humans to live in accordance with the will of God. Such a thing should be taken serious as often as possible.

[The Salafist School of Thought espouses a fundamentalist, literal interpretation of the Quran that is completely incompatible with the 21st century.

Literal? Often yes but not necessarily. You're probably meaning the Athari aqeedah (credo) which says that every word in the Quran should be taken in the literal sense (ie hand of God). This is in contrast to Ashari credo which says that it's up to God to know what it means, and Maturidi which says it's the action of God (ie - rationalism(?)).

The only core value Salafism has is the rejection of taqlid (ie the interpretation of older pre-1900 shaykhs and scholars) except for the ''enlightened'' salafist scholars. If at all, Salafists take all their interprentation from Itjihad (ie - own interpretation).

The point? The West often calls for a ''reformation'' of Islam. Well, the good news is - we had it! It's called Salafism! But what the West means is an Islam that is 100% in line with Western modern thinking. And then suddenly all Islamic terroristic problems and ''backward'' marital abuse will dissapear. Except for the marital abuse which also happens in the West, or the sexual abuse hype called #MeToo.

But ''Western Islam'' doesn't solve problems , oh no God it doesn't. If at all - Muslims should go back to their Orthodox roots which prohibit stealing, rape, non-consensual intercourse and marital abuse;

Yahya ibn Sa’eed reported: Habeeba bint Sahl was the wife of Thabit ibn Qais and it was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, that they were married and she was his neighbor. Thabit had struck her, so she appeared at the door of the Prophet and she said, “Thabit and I can no longer be married.” The Prophet said to Thabit:

خُذْ مِنْهَا وَخَلِّ سَبِيلَهَا

Take what she owes to you and let her go her way.

Source: Sunan al-Dārimī 2200, Grade: Sahih

Based on such traditions, the scholars provided abused wives with legal protection and the right to seek a divorce in such cases.

As-Sayyid Sabiq writes:

ذهب الإمام مالك أن للزوجة أن تطلب من القاضي التفريق إذا ادعت إضرار الزوج بها إضرارا لا يستطاع معه دوام العشرة بين أمثالهما مثل ضربها أو سبها أو إيذائها بأي نوع من أنواع الايذاء الذي لا يطاق أو إكراهها على منكر من القول أو الفعل

Imam Malik adhered to the opinion that the wife has a right to seek separation by decree of the judge if she claims that the husband has greatly harmed her such that it is not possible for them to continue in marital association. For example, he hits her, abuses her, or harms her in an intolerable way, or he forces her to commit evil in word or deed.

Source: Fiqh al-Sunnah 2/289

[Greater Cesnica]

It's humor. If it's not meant to offend, it shouldn't be offensive.

I agree but with you it would be meant to offend lol.

I will offer classes for anti-Muslims on Islam in this thread at least twice a week(saturday and thursday, if your jewish then you can have classes on sunday instead).

I'm not... anti-muslim? Also, very few things offend me. Only rape and pedophilia offend me.

[Saranidia]

I agree but with you it would be meant to offend lol.

I will offer classes for anti-Muslims on Islam in this thread at least twice a week(saturday and thursday, if your jewish then you can have classes on sunday instead).

I'm not... anti-muslim? Also, very few things offend me. Only rape and pedophilia offend me.

ok. you realise rape is haram right?
and as for paedophilia it is also haram("whoever has no respect for our elders or no compassion for our little ones is not one of us."-Muhammad).

Aisha may have been a lot of different ages including 14- 19 at the time of marriage which is not paedophilia because at that age they can still say no(they said no to me about various relatively minor things when i was that age) and may also want to do things and say yes even if they are often naive.

[Jolthig]

was Zeno of Citium possibly a prophet of Allah? he said that there is a divine will controlling everything in the universe and that morality lay in submission(in Arabic Islam) to this divine will through reason and the control of passions.

...

...please don't try to assimilate the historical figures of other cultures into the Islamic narrative, it is a bit distasteful...

How?

[Greater Cesnica]

I'm not... anti-muslim? Also, very few things offend me. Only rape and pedophilia offend me.

ok. you realise rape is haram right?
and as for paedophilia it is also haram("whoever has no respect for our elders or no compassion for our little ones is not one of us."-Muhammad).

Aisha may have been a lot of different ages including 14- 19 at the time of marriage which is not paedophilia because at that age they can still say no(they said no to me about various relatively minor things when i was that age) and may also want to do things and say yes even if they are often naive.

imo the age of consent should be 14, along with the legal age of drinking. I do realize both are haram. I never said anything to the contrary.

[Saranidia]

ok. you realise rape is haram right?
and as for paedophilia it is also haram("whoever has no respect for our elders or no compassion for our little ones is not one of us."-Muhammad).

Aisha may have been a lot of different ages including 14- 19 at the time of marriage which is not paedophilia because at that age they can still say no(they said no to me about various relatively minor things when i was that age) and may also want to do things and say yes even if they are often naive.

imo the age of consent should be 14, along with the legal age of drinking. I do realize both are haram. I never said anything to the contrary.

I agree with you on that.

[Saranidia]

can anyone give examples of racist theocracies in the 1980s and 1990s because I can name racist secular states(of the top of my head South Africa because of apartheid, Britain because of Stephen Lawrence's murder, Thatcherite hate speech such Nelson Mandela being called a terrorist and comments about immigration and Enoch Powell and America because of Ronald Regan and the suppression of the Panthers harsher than the KKK and the killing of Gaddafi for supporting liberation movements)

[Jolthig]

can anyone give examples of racist theocracies in the 1980s and 1990s because I can name racist secular states(of the top of my head South Africa because of apartheid, Britain because of Stephen Lawrence's murder, Thatcherite hate speech such Nelson Mandela being called a terrorist and comments about immigration and Enoch Powell and America because of Ronald Regan and the suppression of the Panthers harsher than the KKK and the killing of Gaddafi for supporting liberation movements)

- Iraq under Saddam Hussein in his genocide against Shi'ites and Kurds.

[Saranidia]

can anyone give examples of racist theocracies in the 1980s and 1990s because I can name racist secular states(of the top of my head South Africa because of apartheid, Britain because of Stephen Lawrence's murder, Thatcherite hate speech such Nelson Mandela being called a terrorist and comments about immigration and Enoch Powell and America because of Ronald Regan and the suppression of the Panthers harsher than the KKK and the killing of Gaddafi for supporting liberation movements)

- Iraq under Saddam Hussein in his genocide against Shi'ites and Kurds.

it wasn't a theocracy, he was criticised for being too secular, invaded Islamic Iran and exempted his family from many aspects of sharia law.

why did you say he was a theocrat?

[Jolthig]

- Iraq under Saddam Hussein in his genocide against Shi'ites and Kurds.

it wasn't a theocracy, he was criticised for being too secular, invaded Islamic Iran and exempted his family from many aspects of sharia law.

why did you say he was a theocrat?

True. I didn't think about that too much.

Only because of his enmity against Shi'ites.

[Saranidia]

it wasn't a theocracy, he was criticised for being too secular, invaded Islamic Iran and exempted his family from many aspects of sharia law.

why did you say he was a theocrat?

True. I didn't think about that too much.

Only because of his enmity against Shi'ites.

prejudice against other religions doesn't equal theocracy in my opinion

[Jolthig]

True. I didn't think about that too much.

Only because of his enmity against Shi'ites.

prejudice against other religions doesn't equal theocracy in my opinion

True