The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Kubumba Tribe]

That sounds like a quite impossible thing to prove though. For all we know Muhammad was just a schizo who had consistent hallucinations.

May have just been mountain marehuáña, like in Colorado

Prophet Muhammad SAWS didn't do drugs.

[Proctopeo]

May have just been mountain marehuáña, like in Colorado

Prophet Muhammad SAWS didn't do drugs.

Well, he was a winner, so you have a point there.

[Jolthig]

Anyone who has a basic understanding of mental disorders and prophethood knows they're two different things.

That sounds like a quite impossible thing to prove though. For all we know Muhammad was just a schizo who had consistent hallucinations.

Muhammad was not known to be insane to his companions. The pagans and People of the Book often accused him of such, but it was only because Muhammads faith didn't match up with their own nor their desires.

[Washington Resistance Army]

That sounds like a quite impossible thing to prove though. For all we know Muhammad was just a schizo who had consistent hallucinations.

Muhammad was not known to be insane to his companions. The pagans and People of the Book often accused him of such, but it was only because Muhammads faith didn't match up with their own nor their desires.

It's not like his companions were MD's or anything, to the poorly educated insanity could very well look like prophethood. Just food for thought.

[Jolthig]

Muhammad was not known to be insane to his companions. The pagans and People of the Book often accused him of such, but it was only because Muhammads faith didn't match up with their own nor their desires.

It's not like his companions were MD's or anything, to the poorly educated insanity could very well look like prophethood. Just food for thought.

No, it was not because of poor educationthey trusted him and even joined him. It was because of his sincerity and high morality (contrary to what Pilarcraft says) is why they joined him. To them, Muhammad was something no other human being can imitate

[Herskerstad]

That sounds like a quite impossible thing to prove though. For all we know Muhammad was just a schizo who had consistent hallucinations.

Muhammad was not known to be insane to his companions. The pagans and People of the Book often accused him of such, but it was only because Muhammads faith didn't match up with their own nor their desires.

Well that depends, we did know he was under the effect of an evil spell for a long time where he was imagining him having sexual intercourse when he in fact was not.

[Saranidia]

Muhammad was not known to be insane to his companions. The pagans and People of the Book often accused him of such, but it was only because Muhammads faith didn't match up with their own nor their desires.

It's not like his companions were MD's or anything, to the poorly educated insanity could very well look like prophethood. Just food for thought.

some of his companians were great generals(like Khaled), business like Khadijah ,u Bakr al-Siddeeq, ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan and ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Awf , diplomats like Dihyah Kalbi, jurists who loved literature and poetry like
Umar etc.

[Jolthig]

Muhammad was not known to be insane to his companions. The pagans and People of the Book often accused him of such, but it was only because Muhammads faith didn't match up with their own nor their desires.

Well that depends, we did know he was under the effect of an evil spell for a long time where he was imagining him having sexual intercourse when he in fact was not.

Well the Hadith doesn't specify what he was supposedly imagining according to Bukhari unless if you have a more detailed hadith.

Even then, the Hadith isn't very specific and I find it very questionable even when it's put in Sahih category.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

It's not like his companions were MD's or anything, to the poorly educated insanity could very well look like prophethood. Just food for thought.

some of his companians were great generals(like Khaled), business like Khadijah ,u Bakr al-Siddeeq, ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan and ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Awf , diplomats like Dihyah Kalbi, jurists who loved literature and poetry like
Umar etc.

None of that displays education in mental health or health in general.

[Saranidia]

some of his companians were great generals(like Khaled), business like Khadijah ,u Bakr al-Siddeeq, ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan and ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Awf , diplomats like Dihyah Kalbi, jurists who loved literature and poetry like
Umar etc.

None of that displays education in mental health or health in general.

well mental health is an overlap from medicine and social sciences(which is linked to many of their disciplines), also it means they are not
uneducated.
And name someone who was skilled in mental health in those days in any country(convinient there isnt one), anyway the first widespread of medical hospitals(at least hospitals in theory and aims) as opposed to asylums were the medieval Islamic hospitals.

[Greater Cesnica]

My grievances against Islam below:

Spoiler Alert: Islam has contributed more violence to the world than other religions. The Crusades were fought against Europe. Europe had to defend itself. You don't see Christians going to Muslim Lands and blowing themselves up, flying planes into buildings, or shooting up places. You don't see an armed fundamentalist uprising of an Islamist faction in the United States (ISIS).

And don't even get me started on Israel. On the very day Britain gave Israel independence, all the surrounding Arab states attempted to invade and annihilate the Jewish State, failing to do so. To this date, 6 decades later, only two Arab states recognize Israel- Egypt and Jordan. Now, tell me. Why do all of other Muslim-Majority nations refuse to recognize or condemn Israel for no other reason besides it's very existence? Israel has offered the Palestinians peace numerous times, all of the offers have been summarily rejected. Isn't that backwards, and detrimental to the well-being of everyone in the region?

In Europe, we see an epidemic of refugee crime, notably the heinous and barbaric atrocity of rape. A disproportionate demographic of these refugees are young Muslim men. I see correlation here. A correlation that cannot be ignored. Indeed, Muslims are told to follow the Prophet Muhammad's ideals in life. He had sex with a minor. Isn't that rape, or statutory rape?

This is my current view of Islam- it has been adopted as a tool of terror unlike any other ideology in our times. Simple.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

None of that displays education in mental health or health in general.

well mental health is an overlap from medicine and social sciences(which is linked to many of their disciplines), also it means they are not
uneducated.
And name someone who was skilled in mental health in those days in any country(convinient there isnt one), anyway the first widespread of medical hospitals(at least hospitals in theory and aims) as opposed to asylums were the medieval Islamic hospitals.

Hippocrates classified paranoia, epilepsy, mania and melancholia. Asclepiades freed insane people from confinement and treated them with natural therapy. Who do you think the Islamic scholars learned from? Me thinks you should do some basic research before making assertions.

[Tuya]

My grievances against Islam below:

Spoiler Alert: Islam has contributed more violence to the world than other religions. The Crusades were fought against Europe. Europe had to defend itself. You don't see Christians going to Muslim Lands and blowing themselves up, flying planes into buildings, or shooting up places. You don't see an armed fundamentalist uprising of an Islamist faction in the United States (ISIS).

And don't even get me started on Israel. On the very day Britain gave Israel independence, all the surrounding Arab states attempted to invade and annihilate the Jewish State, failing to do so. To this date, 6 decades later, only two Arab states recognize Israel- Egypt and Jordan. Now, tell me. Why do all of other Muslim-Majority nations refuse to recognize or condemn Israel for no other reason besides it's very existence? Israel has offered the Palestinians peace numerous times, all of the offers have been summarily rejected. Isn't that backwards, and detrimental to the well-being of everyone in the region?

In Europe, we see an epidemic of refugee crime, notably the heinous and barbaric atrocity of rape. A disproportionate demographic of these refugees are young Muslim men. I see correlation here. A correlation that cannot be ignored. Indeed, Muslims are told to follow the Prophet Muhammad's ideals in life. He had sex with a minor. Isn't that rape, or statutory rape?

This is my current view of Islam- it has been adopted as a tool of terror unlike any other ideology in our times. Simple.

And i wonder which countries have adopted Islam as a tool of terror...

The United States, Israel, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia and of course the other usual suspects.

[Jolthig]

Our first debate, GC.

My grievances against Islam below:

Spoiler Alert: Islam has contributed more violence to the world than other religions. The Crusades were fought against Europe. Europe had to defend itself. You don't see Christians going to Muslim Lands and blowing themselves up, flying planes into buildings, or shooting up places. You don't see an armed fundamentalist uprising of an Islamist faction in the United States (ISIS).

This is false. You are conflating several different and unrelated events to fit your narrative.

Firstly, the Catholic Church were just as guilty in the crusades as the Muslims were. Do remember they massacred several people in Jerusalem when they conquered it. Muslims, Jews, and eastern Christians alike.

And don't even get me started on Israel. On the very day Britain gave Israel independence, all the surrounding Arab states attempted to invade and annihilate the Jewish State, failing to do so. To this date, 6 decades later, only two Arab states recognize Israel- Egypt and Jordan. Now, tell me. Why do all of other Muslim-Majority nations refuse to recognize or condemn Israel for no other reason besides it's very existence? Israel has offered the Palestinians peace numerous times, all of the offers have been summarily rejected. Isn't that backwards, and detrimental to the well-being of everyone in the region?

Because of the arrogance of Muslim leaders in the region. While in my beliefs Israel belongs to the Muslims, Israel has been taken away as part of a divine punishment to the Muslims for their arrogance. They care more about conquering Israel and oppressing Jews than taking care of themselves. This isn't the fault of Islam. This is in part, prophecy in hadith being fulfilled of the latter days where the Muslims would be mislead by false scholars.

In Europe, we see an epidemic of refugee crime, notably the heinous and barbaric atrocity of rape. A disproportionate demographic of these refugees are young Muslim men. I see correlation here. A correlation that cannot be ignored. Indeed, Muslims are told to follow the Prophet Muhammad's ideals in life. He had sex with a minor. Isn't that rape, or statutory rape?

And correlation does not equal causation either.

Anyone can commit a rape crime. And once again, you are conflating things to fit your narrative. Muhammad did not rape anybody. And Aisha according to Ibn Kathir was 19 years old when she got married to Muhammad.

Not all refugees rape. I'm sure you acknowledge this.

Btw, this nonsense you are promoting, is the same thing conservatives here say about Mexicans. Most famously, Trump. And yes, I know he said there are good Mexicans. Yet, he still promoted bigotry.

This is my current view of Islam- it has been adopted as a tool of terror unlike any other ideology in our times. Simple.

No it hasn't. You made several poor and weak arguments that are often spoken by individuals such as Robert Spencer (whom I had an exchange with myself on Twitter). He is a very dishonest person.

[Saranidia]

Our first debate, GC.

My grievances against Islam below:

Spoiler Alert: Islam has contributed more violence to the world than other religions. The Crusades were fought against Europe. Europe had to defend itself. You don't see Christians going to Muslim Lands and blowing themselves up, flying planes into buildings, or shooting up places. You don't see an armed fundamentalist uprising of an Islamist faction in the United States (ISIS).

This is false. You are conflating several different and unrelated events to fit your narrative.

Firstly, the Catholic Church were just as guilty in the crusades as the Muslims were. Do remember they massacred several people in Jerusalem when they conquered it. Muslims, Jews, and eastern Christians alike.

And don't even get me started on Israel. On the very day Britain gave Israel independence, all the surrounding Arab states attempted to invade and annihilate the Jewish State, failing to do so. To this date, 6 decades later, only two Arab states recognize Israel- Egypt and Jordan. Now, tell me. Why do all of other Muslim-Majority nations refuse to recognize or condemn Israel for no other reason besides it's very existence? Israel has offered the Palestinians peace numerous times, all of the offers have been summarily rejected. Isn't that backwards, and detrimental to the well-being of everyone in the region?

Because of the arrogance of Muslim leaders in the region. While in my beliefs Israel belongs to the Muslims, Israel has been taken away as part of a divine punishment to the Muslims for their arrogance. They care more about conquering Israel and oppressing Jews than taking care of themselves. This isn't the fault of Islam. This is in part, prophecy in hadith being fulfilled of the latter days where the Muslims would be mislead by false scholars.

In Europe, we see an epidemic of refugee crime, notably the heinous and barbaric atrocity of rape. A disproportionate demographic of these refugees are young Muslim men. I see correlation here. A correlation that cannot be ignored. Indeed, Muslims are told to follow the Prophet Muhammad's ideals in life. He had sex with a minor. Isn't that rape, or statutory rape?

And correlation does not equal causation either.

Anyone can commit a rape crime. And once again, you are conflating things to fit your narrative. Muhammad did not rape anybody. And Aisha according to Ibn Kathir was 19 years old when she got married to Muhammad.

Not all refugees rape. I'm sure you acknowledge this.

This is my current view of Islam- it has been adopted as a tool of terror unlike any other ideology in our times. Simple.

[/quote]

all true also Christians did do military occupation in Iraq even after Saddam Hussein was gone(and Bush was just as bad IMO for example Abu Ghraib) and "Christian" Bosnian Serbs committed terrorism against Bosniak Muslims.

[Jolthig]

Our first debate, GC.


This is false. You are conflating several different and unrelated events to fit your narrative.

Firstly, the Catholic Church were just as guilty in the crusades as the Muslims were. Do remember they massacred several people in Jerusalem when they conquered it. Muslims, Jews, and eastern Christians alike.


Because of the arrogance of Muslim leaders in the region. While in my beliefs Israel belongs to the Muslims, Israel has been taken away as part of a divine punishment to the Muslims for their arrogance. They care more about conquering Israel and oppressing Jews than taking care of themselves. This isn't the fault of Islam. This is in part, prophecy in hadith being fulfilled of the latter days where the Muslims would be mislead by false scholars.



And correlation does not equal causation either.

Anyone can commit a rape crime. And once again, you are conflating things to fit your narrative. Muhammad did not rape anybody. And Aisha according to Ibn Kathir was 19 years old when she got married to Muhammad.

Not all refugees rape. I'm sure you acknowledge this.

This is my current view of Islam- it has been adopted as a tool of terror unlike any other ideology in our times. Simple.

all true also Christians did do military occupation in Iraq even after Saddam Hussein was gone(and Bush was just as bad IMO for example Abu Ghraib) and "Christian" Bosnian Serbs committed terrorism against Bosniak Muslims.[/quote]
Exactly.

That was very dishonest of your arguments, GC. Quite disappointed in you.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Did someone just seriously fucking say GWB is as bad as Saddam fucking Hussein because of a single prison? Holy fucking shit.

[Jolthig]

Did someone just seriously fucking say GWB is as bad as Saddam fucking Hussein because of a single prison? Holy fucking shit.

Yes he did. Obviously GWB wasn't bad internally like Hussein was and obviously he wasn't responsible for war crimes in Iraq committed by individual US soldiers, but the occupation of Iraq was certainly not very welcoming to many Iraqi militants and that country became chaotic.

The US invaded Iraq based on a lie that they had chemical weapons.

[Frievolk]

Did someone just seriously fucking say GWB is as bad as Saddam fucking Hussein because of a single prison? Holy fucking shit.

Yes he did. Obviously GWB wasn't bad internally like Hussein was and obviously he wasn't responsible for war crimes in Iraq committed by individual US soldiers, but the occupation of Iraq was certainly not very welcoming to many Iraqi militants and that country became chaotic.

The US invaded Iraq based on a lie that they had chemical weapons.

Iraq had chemical weaponry though. It had used it quite extensively during the Iran-Iraq war (and later in the Iraq-Kuwait war).

[Jolthig]

Yes he did. Obviously GWB wasn't bad internally like Hussein was and obviously he wasn't responsible for war crimes in Iraq committed by individual US soldiers, but the occupation of Iraq was certainly not very welcoming to many Iraqi militants and that country became chaotic.

The US invaded Iraq based on a lie that they had chemical weapons.

Iraq had chemical weaponry though. It had used it quite extensively during the Iran-Iraq war (and later in the Iraq-Kuwait war).

And they destroyed those weapons in the early 1990s by orders of the UN. They had no weapons in 2002-03

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Did someone just seriously fucking say GWB is as bad as Saddam fucking Hussein because of a single prison? Holy fucking shit.

Yes he did. Obviously GWB wasn't bad internally like Hussein was and obviously he wasn't responsible for war crimes in Iraq committed by individual US soldiers, but the occupation of Iraq was certainly not very welcoming to many Iraqi militants and that country became chaotic.

The US invaded Iraq based on a lie that they had chemical weapons.

No fucking duh the occupation of Iraq was mishandled and shitty but come on. You have to see how fucking idiotic or disingenuous it is to say that GWB is as bad as Saddam Hussein. Saddam's forces directly gassed entire fucking villages, dude. Fucking GASSED VILLAGES. And they say Bush is as bad because of a single prison? Fuck that.

[Jolthig]

Yes he did. Obviously GWB wasn't bad internally like Hussein was and obviously he wasn't responsible for war crimes in Iraq committed by individual US soldiers, but the occupation of Iraq was certainly not very welcoming to many Iraqi militants and that country became chaotic.

The US invaded Iraq based on a lie that they had chemical weapons.

No fucking duh the occupation of Iraq was mishandled and shitty but come on. You have to see how fucking idiotic or disingenuous it is to say that GWB is as bad as Saddam Hussein. Saddam's forces directly gassed entire fucking villages, dude. Fucking GASSED VILLAGES. And they say Bush is as bad because of a single prison? Fuck that.

I do as I said in my last post to you. I was just saying I got his point whole disagreeing with him that GWB was as bad as Hussein.

[Lisbane]

Whilst I don't like Islam in the sense it is a religion, I do believe an overwhelming majority of Muslims are just normal people. What I cannot support is Middle Eastern & Asian Islam's (different from what I consider Western Islam's) views on homosexuality, and crime in general. Like the Bible, sometimes I think Muslims take the Quran and other Holy Scripture much to literally or seriously. I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this.

[Jolthig]

Whilst I don't like Islam in the sense it is a religion, I do believe an overwhelming majority of Muslims are just normal people. What I cannot support is Middle Eastern & Asian Islam's (different from what I consider Western Islam's) views on homosexuality, and crime in general. Like the Bible, sometimes I think Muslims take the Quran and other Holy Scripture much to literally or seriously. I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this.

A lot of the middle east has been influenced by Salafism or Sunni fundamentalist ideologies as is the case of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan

You can check out my signature for the Ahmadiyya interpretation of Islam.

[Lisbane]

Whilst I don't like Islam in the sense it is a religion, I do believe an overwhelming majority of Muslims are just normal people. What I cannot support is Middle Eastern & Asian Islam's (different from what I consider Western Islam's) views on homosexuality, and crime in general. Like the Bible, sometimes I think Muslims take the Quran and other Holy Scripture much to literally or seriously. I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this.

A lot of the middle east has been influenced by Salafism or Sunni fundamentalist ideologies as is the case of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan

You can check out my signature for the Ahmadiyya interpretation of Islam.

Very interesting. Are you a devout Muslim?