The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Soyuz Mladorrosov]

So then even moderate Islamists are a threat, just a more sinister one.

How exactly are they a threat? A threat to what? Western culture? It was killed by the Enlightenment tovarish.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ok.
Still, it wouldn't apply to him.

No. I would just be punished for being an apostate, right?

No

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So then even moderate Islamists are a threat, just a more sinister one.

How exactly are they a threat? A threat to what? Western culture? It was killed by the Enlightenment tovarish.

We're a threat to kufr, AlHamdulillah.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

No. I would just be punished for being an apostate, right?

No

Amin, I'm pretty sure we went over this before. You already said you supported punishment for apostates in the form of tearing them from their Muslim families.

[Genivaria]

Ok.
Still, it wouldn't apply to him.

No. I would just be punished for being an apostate, right? Unless, of course, I "repented" in which case, I'm now going to be whipped for having sex with other men, right? A rock and a hard place, if you ask me.

His is a two-faced sort of danger.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No

Amin, I'm pretty sure we went over this before. You already said you supported punishment for apostates in the form of tearing them from their Muslim families.

When did I say this?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No. I would just be punished for being an apostate, right? Unless, of course, I "repented" in which case, I'm now going to be whipped for having sex with other men, right? A rock and a hard place, if you ask me.

His is a two-faced sort of danger.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Amin, I'm pretty sure we went over this before. You already said you supported punishment for apostates in the form of tearing them from their Muslim families.

When did I say this?

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=34444578#p34444598
>No punishment for apostates
>Apostates must be forcibly divorced from their spouses

[Jolthig]

When did I say this?

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=34444578#p34444598
>No punishment for apostates
>Apostates must be forcibly divorced from their spouses

I think he means punishment by stoning to death.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=34444578#p34444598
>No punishment for apostates
>Apostates must be forcibly divorced from their spouses

I think he means punishment by stoning to death.

Then he's making assumptions because I said nothing about stoning or death but just punishment.

[Genivaria]

His is a two-faced sort of danger.

You lie and refuse to be straight with what you want.

[Jolthig]

I think he means punishment by stoning to death.

Then he's making assumptions because I said nothing about stoning or death but just punishment.

My bad.

[Genivaria]

I think he means punishment by stoning to death.

Then he's making assumptions because I said nothing about stoning or death but just punishment.

He does that, he strawmans so he can avoid the question you actually asked.
Example.

Then give an example.
I'm a Muslim, Sharia law is now imposed on me, what has changed in my life?
Give an example.

Did you break the law? If so, what crime did you commit?

Sharia is now in place, what new law would there be?

You have to commit a crime in order for this scenario to work.

You have to commit a crime in order for this scenario to work.

No I don't, if the laws change then 'committing a crime' can suddenly become a whole lot easier, please stop deflecting and answer the question.
What would fucking change?

Oh my fucking god that is what I asked from the beginning, YOU brought up breaking the law.

[Jolthig]

Then he's making assumptions because I said nothing about stoning or death but just punishment.

He does that, he strawmans so he can avoid the question you actually asked.
Example.

Did you break the law? If so, what crime did you commit?

You have to commit a crime in order for this scenario to work.

No I don't, if the laws change then 'committing a crime' can suddenly become a whole lot easier, please stop deflecting and answer the question.
What would fucking change?

I guess his basic view is he wants a world wide khalifat with Sharia law or at least all 200+ nations to have Sharia for in his view, Muslims, but secular law remains for non Muslims?

[Genivaria]

He does that, he strawmans so he can avoid the question you actually asked.
Example.

I guess his basic view is he wants a world wide khalifat with Sharia law or at least all 200+ nations to have Sharia for in his view, Muslims, but secular law remains for non Muslims?

I don't actually believe that last bit to begin with regardless, but even if he wanted Sharia ONLY on Muslims I'd still oppose him because I support freedom from oppression for everyone.

[Jolthig]

I guess his basic view is he wants a world wide khalifat with Sharia law or at least all 200+ nations to have Sharia for in his view, Muslims, but secular law remains for non Muslims?

I don't actually believe that last bit to begin with regardless, but even if he wanted Sharia ONLY on Muslims I'd still oppose him because I support freedom from oppression for everyone.

That's why we have our first amendment.

I wonder where we Ahmadis fall if somehow his version of Sharia is somehow established hypothetically? Most Muslim governments who are very strict would declare me kafr.

In Pakistan I can't even say the kalama or Assalaam o alakium without being fined or jailed. Just for my beliefs.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I don't actually believe that last bit to begin with regardless, but even if he wanted Sharia ONLY on Muslims I'd still oppose him because I support freedom from oppression for everyone.

That's why we have our first amendment.

I wonder where we Ahmadis fall if somehow his version of Sharia is somehow established hypothetically? Most Muslim governments who are very strict would declare me kafr.

In Pakistan I can't even say the kalama or Assalaam o alakium without being fined or jailed. Just for my beliefs.

I actually got yelled at by a Syrian for saying salaam >.> He said I was "mocking his faith like a typical murtad". I was so confused. It's literally the word for hello in my native language. The fuck else am I supposed to say?

[Jolthig]

That's why we have our first amendment.

I wonder where we Ahmadis fall if somehow his version of Sharia is somehow established hypothetically? Most Muslim governments who are very strict would declare me kafr.

In Pakistan I can't even say the kalama or Assalaam o alakium without being fined or jailed. Just for my beliefs.

I actually got yelled at by a Syrian for saying salaam >.> He said I was "mocking his faith like a typical murtad". I was so confused. It's literally the word for hello in my native language. The fuck else am I supposed to say?

HAHAHA!

That guy is paranoid then. Probably best not to talk to him at all.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I actually got yelled at by a Syrian for saying salaam >.> He said I was "mocking his faith like a typical murtad". I was so confused. It's literally the word for hello in my native language. The fuck else am I supposed to say?

HAHAHA!

That guy is paranoid then. Probably best not to talk to him at all.

Oh, trust me, I don't lol. I prefer to avoid toxic individuals like such.

[Jolthig]

HAHAHA!

That guy is paranoid then. Probably best not to talk to him at all.

Oh, trust me, I don't lol. I prefer to avoid toxic individuals like such.

Good.

[Genivaria]

That's why we have our first amendment.

I wonder where we Ahmadis fall if somehow his version of Sharia is somehow established hypothetically? Most Muslim governments who are very strict would declare me kafr.

In Pakistan I can't even say the kalama or Assalaam o alakium without being fined or jailed. Just for my beliefs.

I actually got yelled at by a Syrian for saying salaam >.> He said I was "mocking his faith like a typical murtad". I was so confused. It's literally the word for hello in my native language. The fuck else am I supposed to say?

What in the hell...

[A m e n r i a]

Hey guys, just wanted to say that I'm fascinated when every Friday, when I go to the mosque, I see men of different shapes, sizes, and colours. I'm pretty sure the locals here feel the same way. Some native guy looked at me with curiosity today. It's like he's saying "oh look, a non-African, non-Arab, young, goth Muslim". Lol. Anyways, happy Friday!

[Jolthig]

Hey guys, just wanted to say that I'm fascinated when every Friday, when I go to the mosque, I see men of different shapes, sizes, and colours. I'm pretty sure the locals here feel the same way. Some native guy looked at me with curiosity today. It's like he's saying "oh look, a non-African, non-Arab, young, goth Muslim". Lol. Anyways, happy Friday!

Jummah mubarak, akhi!

[The Eternal Aulus]

Ok.
Still, it wouldn't apply to him.

No. I would just be punished for being an apostate, right? Unless, of course, I "repented" in which case, I'm now going to be whipped for having sex with other men, right? A rock and a hard place, if you ask me.

From here

Jabir Ibn Abdullah narrated that a Bedouin once pledged his allegiance to the Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) and embraced Islam. The Bedouin caught a fever whereupon he told the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. The Bedouin repeated his request and again the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. After the Bedouin had later left Medina, the Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Medina is like a pair of bellows (furnace): It expels its impurities and clears and shines its good." It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) pardoned the Bedouin and did order that he be killed.

2- Anas (may God be pleased with him) said: “There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surah Al-Baqarah and Al-Imran and used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. The man later apostatized and returned to Christianity. He would said, ‘Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then he died. On the morning after his burial, the people found that the earth had expelled his body. They said, ‘This is the doing of Muhammad and his Companions. They dug out the grave of our companion and removed his body because he left them." So they dug a deep grave and buried him but once more the earth expelled his body. They said, ‘This is the doing of Muhammad and his Companions. They dug out the grave of our companion and removed his body because he left them.’ They again dug a grave for him, as deep as they could, but in the morning they once again found his body expelled from the grave. They finally believed that what had befallen him was the doing of humans and had to leave him without burial.” This unfortunate man was a Christian from Banu Al-Najjar who had embraced Islam and read the Quran and was one of the disciples of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). He not only apostatized but spread rumors about the noble Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) saying that he did not know anything except for what he wrote for him. The narration does not mention whether or not the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) ordered that he be killed. The fact that he read Surah Al-Baqarah and Al-Imran shows that he remained a Muslim for a while and that his decision to apostatize came years after the migration from Mecca to Medina.

3- The Quran speaks of a group of Jews who wavered between Islam and atheism to instill doubt in the hearts of Muslims and drive them away from the religion of Islam. Thereupon God the Almighty revealed the verse: “And a faction of the People of the Scripture say [to each other], "Believe in that which was revealed to the believers at the beginning of the day and reject it at its end that perhaps they will abandon their religion” [3: 72].

This wave of apostasy hit Medina while the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was the ruler yet there is nothing to suggest that he imposed punishment on these apostates who attempted to repel Muslims from their religion

Further

Can a person who is a Muslim choose a religion other than Islam?
Answer

The answer is yes, they can, because the Quran says, ‘Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion,’ (Quran 109:6) and, ‘Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosever will, let him disbelieve,’ (Quran18:29) and, ‘There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is distinct from error’ (Quran 2:256).

These verses from the Quran discuss a freedom that God affords all people. But from a religious prospective, the act of abandoning one’s religion is a sin punishable by God on the Day of Judgment. If the case in Question is one of merely rejecting faith, then there is no worldly punishment. If, however, the crime of undermining the foundations of the society is added to the sin of apostasy, then the case must be referred to a judicial system whose role is to protect the integrity of the society. According to Islam, it is not permitted for Muslims to reject their faith, so if a Muslim were to leave Islam and adopt another religion, they would thereby be committing a sin in the eyes of Islam. Religious belief and practice is a personal matter, and society only intervenes when that personal matter becomes public and threatens the well-being of its members.

So in short, no you do not need to be stoned.

I don't actually believe that last bit to begin with regardless, but even if he wanted Sharia ONLY on Muslims I'd still oppose him because I support freedom from oppression for everyone.

That's why we have our first amendment.

I wonder where we Ahmadis fall if somehow his version of Sharia is somehow established hypothetically? Most Muslim governments who are very strict would declare me kafr.

In Pakistan I can't even say the kalama or Assalaam o alakium without being fined or jailed. Just for my beliefs.

Unfortunately lots and lots of Muslim communities are getting infected with toxic ideas. I am aware that some Amadiyya communities have officially heretical ideas, but to say that all Ahmadiyyas uphold those views is outrageous. Even then, it's up to Allah swt to judge.

[Kubumba Tribe]

You lie

Prove it

and refuse to be straight with what you want.

When did I say this?

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=34444578#p34444598
>No punishment for apostates
>Apostates must be forcibly divorced from their spouses

Oh yeah, that

Then he's making assumptions because I said nothing about stoning or death but just punishment.

He does that, he strawmans so he can avoid the question you actually asked.
Example.

Did you break the law? If so, what crime did you commit?

You have to commit a crime in order for this scenario to work.

No I don't, if the laws change then 'committing a crime' can suddenly become a whole lot easier, please stop deflecting and answer the question.
What would change?

Actually I didn't your question that time.

He does that, he strawmans so he can avoid the question you actually asked.
Example.

I guess his basic view is he wants a world wide khalifat with Sharia law or at least all 200+ nations to have Sharia for in his view, Muslims, but secular law remains for non Muslims?

Not world-wide, but everything else is correct

I guess his basic view is he wants a world wide khalifat with Sharia law or at least all 200+ nations to have Sharia for in his view, Muslims, but secular law remains for non Muslims?

I don't actually believe that last bit to begin with regardless.

Who are you to tell me what I believe?