The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[A m e n r i a]

Eid Mubarak, selamat hari raya Idul Adha from an Indonesian guy in China.

[Tebuh]

Eid mubarak.

[Frievolk]

Oh right, it's the Day of Sacrifice (Eid-i-Qurban).
Isn't it weird that there was this guy who was literally ready to slit the throat of his own son until god went like "whoa, look at the madman. Dude, just stop, I was joking. Here just sacrifice this goat (stories may vary) instead!" and... roughly half of the world celebrates that?

[Kowani]

Oh right, it's the Day of Sacrifice (Eid-i-Qurban).
Isn't it weird that there was this guy who was literally ready to slit the throat of his own son until god went like "whoa, look at the madman. Dude, just stop, I was joking. Here just sacrifice this goat (stories may vary) instead!" and... roughly half of the world celebrates that?

Blind loyalty is celebrated, for some weird reason...I find it interesting that if anything like that happened today, the parent would lose their kid, and hopefully end up in prison.

As a side note, if Allah was omniscient, he still wouldn’t need to test Abraham’s faith because he would already know the outcome. So honestly, it just comes off as Allah being a bit of a dick.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Oh right, it's the Day of Sacrifice (Eid-i-Qurban).
Isn't it weird that there was this guy who was literally ready to slit the throat of his own son until god went like "whoa, look at the madman. Dude, just stop, I was joking. Here just sacrifice this goat (stories may vary) instead!" and... roughly half of the world celebrates that?

For me, Eid al Adha isn't about commemorating the act of Prophet Abraham (Ibrahim) A.S. that went to sacrifice his own son (and almost succeeding in that, hath Allah didn't intervene), but to commemorate Abraham's willingness, readiness to do what is ordered by Allah. Muslims do celebrate his loyalty, his...godliness. Not the act of sacrificing his own son....that's what I thought.

Maybe other Muslims on this thread are ready to give you a response

Oh right, it's the Day of Sacrifice (Eid-i-Qurban).
Isn't it weird that there was this guy who was literally ready to slit the throat of his own son until god went like "whoa, look at the madman. Dude, just stop, I was joking. Here just sacrifice this goat (stories may vary) instead!" and... roughly half of the world celebrates that?

Blind loyalty is celebrated, for some weird reason...I find it interesting that if anything like that happened today, the parent would lose their kid, and hopefully end up in prison.

As a side note, if Allah was omniscient, he still wouldn’t need to test Abraham’s faith because he would already know the outcome. So honestly, it just comes off as Allah being a bit of a dick.

Thanks for the contribution

[Baltenstein]

Oh right, it's the Day of Sacrifice (Eid-i-Qurban).
Isn't it weird that there was this guy who was literally ready to slit the throat of his own son until god went like "whoa, look at the madman. Dude, just stop, I was joking. Here just sacrifice this goat (stories may vary) instead!" and... roughly half of the world celebrates that?

Blind loyalty is celebrated, for some weird reason...I find it interesting that if anything like that happened today, the parent would lose their kid, and hopefully end up in prison.

As a side note, if Allah was omniscient, he still wouldn’t need to test Abraham’s faith because he would already know the outcome. So honestly, it just comes off as Allah being a bit of a dick.

That's tame compared to what he put poor Job through. Does Islamic theology also feature the Book of Job, btw?

[Frievolk]

Blind loyalty is celebrated, for some weird reason...I find it interesting that if anything like that happened today, the parent would lose their kid, and hopefully end up in prison.

As a side note, if Allah was omniscient, he still wouldn’t need to test Abraham’s faith because he would already know the outcome. So honestly, it just comes off as Allah being a bit of a dick.

That's tame compared to what he put poor Job through. Does Islamic theology also feature the Book of Job, btw?

The Story is somewhat different, but the whole 'He "Tests" Job with various mental, physical, and emotional torture methods to see if he breaks at some point' thing is the same.

[Frievolk]

Oh right, it's the Day of Sacrifice (Eid-i-Qurban).
Isn't it weird that there was this guy who was literally ready to slit the throat of his own son until god went like "whoa, look at the madman. Dude, just stop, I was joking. Here just sacrifice this goat (stories may vary) instead!" and... roughly half of the world celebrates that?

For me, Eid al Adha isn't about commemorating the act of Prophet Abraham (Ibrahim) A.S. that went to sacrifice his own son (and almost succeeding in that, hath Allah didn't intervene), but to commemorate Abraham's willingness, readiness to do what is ordered by Allah. Muslims do celebrate his loyalty, his...godliness. Not the act of sacrificing his own son....that's what I thought.

Maybe other Muslims on this thread are ready to give you a response

Yeah, I know that. I was a Muslim too, you know. My problem is that why the fuck should the idea that 'he's willing to butcher his own son like a pig because he hallucinated that god told him to do it' be something that we celebrate.

[Samudera Darussalam]

For me, Eid al Adha isn't about commemorating the act of Prophet Abraham (Ibrahim) A.S. that went to sacrifice his own son (and almost succeeding in that, hath Allah didn't intervene), but to commemorate Abraham's willingness, readiness to do what is ordered by Allah. Muslims do celebrate his loyalty, his...godliness. Not the act of sacrificing his own son....that's what I thought.

Maybe other Muslims on this thread are ready to give you a response

Yeah, I know that. I was a Muslim too, you know. My problem is that why the fuck should the idea that 'he's willing to butcher his own son like a pig because he hallucinated that god told him to do it' be something that we celebrate.

Eh, sorry, I'm not aware about that. Shouldn't have used the last sentence, and it seems that I just misinterpreted your question.

The first thought that come to my mind is because, again, to honor his deed that allowed him to pass God's test. But again, this is not the answer that seems really suitable to your demand, so I did some digging.

It was difficult, because the ones in my mother tongue (Indonesian) doesn't really provide a sufficient answer that will satisfy your logic (except that I won't dig really....deeper. I'm pretty busy right now and it will take a lot of time) but I find that they somewhat echo my answer. So not these sources.

I searched again in English, but as of present, I can't find one that can satisfy you. So maybe I'll did some again later. Sorry.

[Kowani]

That's tame compared to what he put poor Job through. Does Islamic theology also feature the Book of Job, btw?

The Story is somewhat different, but the whole 'He "Tests" Job with various mental, physical, and emotional torture methods to see if he breaks at some point' thing is the same.

I feel like my last point explains why the entire concept of God, or Allah, or any supposedly omniscient being “testing” people is complete bull, but I feel like I should mention that the story of Job is just way over the top. Seems almost like a juvenile revenge fantasy up until the end, where Allah decides to stop being a class a-douchebag.

[Frievolk]

The Story is somewhat different, but the whole 'He "Tests" Job with various mental, physical, and emotional torture methods to see if he breaks at some point' thing is the same.

I feel like my last point explains why the entire concept of God, or Allah, or any supposedly omniscient being “testing” people is complete bull, but I feel like I should mention that the story of Job is just way over the top. Seems almost like a juvenile revenge fantasy up until the end, where Allah decides to stop being a class a-douchebag.

The Story of Job makes more sense when you study it from the Jewish perspective where god is neither omnipotent nor benovelent (something that the Jews never cease to remind him of, both in the tomes and in real life). In that, some accuser (Satan doesn't necessarily have the same meaning as it does in the Christian and Islamic traditions) tells god "so you got this really pious guy, eh? Well, ten bucks says he's not gonna be so pious when you take his wealth away!" and god, being a chaotic neutral at best, decides to test that claim.

[Jolthig]

Eid is the celebration of the Abolishment of human sacrifice according to the commentary of the Quran edited by Malik Ghulam Farik. You can find it online at http://www.alislam.org

[Frievolk]

Right right, I get that. But are you suggesting that it is only a coincidence that you celebrate it on the day the founding father of your faith (alongside a few others) decided he was gonna drag his son Isaac to the top of the mountain and was literally this close to sacrificing him like a priced lamb before god decided to end the charade?

Because my dude, my guy, there are loads of better ways to celebrate the destruction of the self than killing a lamb on the day that world's most mentally ill parent was stopped from killing his own son by god.

[Jolthig]

You are confusing the Quranic account of the sacrifice of his son (which btw is Ishmael and not Isaac as the Bible says) with the Biblical account. Though I'm not sure what Hadith says, I'll say the Quranic version: God didn't command Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael. Abraham simply misinterpreted a true dream he saw of himself sacrificing Ishmael, which I believe indicates him sending away Ishmael alongside his mother at the insistence of Sarah. Nevertheless, with Allah commanding Abraham to stop the sacrifice, this indicates that child sacrifice and any human sacrifice for this matter, is not allowed by Islam or Abraham's faith.

Also the modern progeny (or rather who is the founding prophet of the prophets who came the last 6000 years, especially of the semetic peoples) of prophets and their offspring starts with Adam (which we Ahmadis believe isn't the first human, but the last Adam of the line of Adams that came before him as indicated by the word "vicegerant" (khalifa), yeah I'm aware there are different meanings to the word since it doesn't mean just a successor, but it definitely gets more interesting as we make more and more discoveries on the ancient humans.

[Anollasia]

Have a happy Eid!

[Jolthig]

Have a happy Eid!

Khair mubarak, my Turkish brother!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Have a happy Eid!

Eid Mubarak akhi

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://youtu.be/WZO_4t4PWtY

[Kubumba Tribe]

https://youtu.be/erPYMZ3Ilxo

[Kubumba Tribe]

https://youtu.be/i8prDl6Q3yw
Which one do you think is better?
Personally, I lean towards the jihad nasheed, but both songs had their perks. Also, I skipped through some of the Christian song so my judgement is skewed Anyhoo, what do y'all think?

Also, I've heard better jihad nasheeds as well. But I liked this one.

[The Eternal Aulus]

Oh right, it's the Day of Sacrifice (Eid-i-Qurban).
Isn't it weird that there was this guy who was literally ready to slit the throat of his own son until god went like "whoa, look at the madman. Dude, just stop, I was joking. Here just sacrifice this goat (stories may vary) instead!" and... roughly half of the world celebrates that?

It's more about being content with what God has ordered us to do, about making sacrifices for the sake of God.

[The Eternal Aulus]

https://youtu.be/i8prDl6Q3yw
Which one do you think is better?
Personally, I lean towards the jihad nasheed, but both songs had their perks. Also, I skipped through some of the Christian song so my judgement is skewed Anyhoo, what do y'all think?

Also, I've heard better jihad nasheeds as well. But I liked this one.

I don't see how this is relevant about discussing Islam.

[Kubumba Tribe]

The law according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

Give an example.

https://legacy.quran.com/2/275
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/24/1

[Jolthig]

I just recently saw a video of a Muslim woman running for Riksdag in Sweden on the platform of imposing strict Islamic Sharia laws in Swedish society.

Source? And if true, AlHamdulillah, the Ummah needs more Muslims like her.

I can say that religious conservatism (often Islamic) may be a problem for Western societies

Not if they simply pass a law that allows us to live fee sabeelillah, it won't be.

I disagree, Amin. Islamic law in a secular/western country is not a good idea. I'm not sure what their constitution says (though I am aware they have a state Lutheran Church).

I very much highly doubt Sharia will come to Sweden anytime soon. The majority of them are pretty nonreligious.

On top of this, how will Islamic Shariah be enforced? The Muslims of the middle east can't even decide on what is the correct interpretation without passing takfir on one another.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Source? And if true, AlHamdulillah, the Ummah needs more Muslims like her.

Not if they simply pass a law that allows us to live fee sabeelillah, it won't be.

I disagree, Amin. Islamic law in a secular/western country is not a good idea. I'm not sure what their constitution says (though I am aware they have a state Lutheran Church).

I don't really care what a constitution says, if there's no Shari'ah accommodations, it's messed up.

On top of this, how will Islamic Shariah be enforced? The Muslims of the middle east can't even decide on what is the correct interpretation without passing takfir on one another.

That's a minority.