The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://islamqa.info/en/134339

[El-Amin Caliphate]

From what I've read, it seems like murtadeen can't marry Muslims. I'll have to read more tho, I'm not 100% sure.

I said stay married to a Muslim. As in the apostate leaves Islam after they are wed.

Yeah, that too. I'm reading on it, I showed a ruling too.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I said stay married to a Muslim. As in the apostate leaves Islam after they are wed.

Yeah, that too. I'm reading on it, I showed a ruling too.

So, yes. You believe that if a spouse apostasizes, they should be forced to divorce by the government, yes?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yeah, that too. I'm reading on it, I showed a ruling too.

So, yes. You believe that if a spouse apostasizes, they should be forced to divorce by the government, yes?

Idk yet, leaning towards "yes".

[Kowani]

So, yes. You believe that if a spouse apostasizes, they should be forced to divorce by the government, yes?

Idk yet, leaning towards "yes".

Do you base every single moral judgment you make on the Koran?

[Negarakita]

While we're on the subject, do y'all believe there should be any official punishment whatsoever for apostasy?

Absolutely not. Also iirc you only don't go to heaven if you sin and/or deny Islamic teachings after having been fully exposed to them. Because it's not really great to go to hell if you've never even heard of Islam or only know of it as a terrorist death cult due to biased cultural stuff. Which doesn't sound good for either of us tbh but idk.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

While we're on the subject, do y'all believe there should be any official punishment whatsoever for apostasy?

Absolutely not. Also iirc you only don't go to heaven if you sin and/or deny Islamic teachings after having been fully exposed to them. Because it's not really great to go to hell if you've never even heard of Islam or only know of it as a terrorist death cult due to biased cultural stuff. Which doesn't sound good for either of us tbh but idk.

Of course. Someone who doesn't actually know Al-Islam and only knows it from anti-Islamoc sources and/or the media =/= someone who actually knows it. I think they'd have a chance for Jannah.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Idk yet, leaning towards "yes".

Do you base every single moral judgment you make on the Koran?

No.

[Jolthig]

While we're on the subject, do y'all believe there should be any official punishment whatsoever for apostasy?

No because it goes against Surah 2:256. I'll add more detail later

[The Salian Realm]

While we're on the subject, do y'all believe there should be any official punishment whatsoever for apostasy?

No.

[Nunavutialand]

While we're on the subject, do y'all believe there should be any official punishment whatsoever for apostasy?

No, and any country that passes such a law should be heavily sanctioned and/or liberated.

[Rich and Corporations]

While we're on the subject, do y'all believe there should be any official punishment whatsoever for apostasy?

No, and any country that passes such a law should be heavily sanctioned and/or liberated.

I would join you in that crusade.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Alright. So, so far it has been a unanimous "no". But then we also get into some complications that I pointed out to Amin. In most of Islam, a Muslim woman cannot be married to a non-Muslim. So, an Islamic government, even if it does not physically harm that apostate for doing such, would have to force a divorce, as in the case of the Egyptian scholar Nasr Abu Zayd. Would this not count as a punishment?

[Kowani]

Alright. So, so far it has been a unanimous "no". But then we also get into some complications that I pointed out to Amin. In most of Islam, a Muslim woman cannot be married to a non-Muslim. So, an Islamic government, even if it does not physically harm that apostate for doing such, would have to force a divorce, as in the case of the Egyptian scholar Nasr Abu Zayd. Would this not count as a punishment?

It would. I don’t support it. But I don’t live in the ME, nor am I a Muslim, so I doubt that the Egyptian government cares very much about what I think.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Alright. So, so far it has been a unanimous "no". But then we also get into some complications that I pointed out to Amin. In most of Islam, a Muslim woman cannot be married to a non-Muslim. So, an Islamic government, even if it does not physically harm that apostate for doing such, would have to force a divorce, as in the case of the Egyptian scholar Nasr Abu Zayd. Would this not count as a punishment?

I mean, it technically would be punishment if Muslims can't stay married with apostates.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Alright. So, so far it has been a unanimous "no". But then we also get into some complications that I pointed out to Amin. In most of Islam, a Muslim woman cannot be married to a non-Muslim. So, an Islamic government, even if it does not physically harm that apostate for doing such, would have to force a divorce, as in the case of the Egyptian scholar Nasr Abu Zayd. Would this not count as a punishment?

It would. I don’t support it. But I don’t live in the ME, nor am I a Muslim, so I doubt that the Egyptian government cares very much about what I think.

The Egyptian government doesn't care all that much about Al-Islam either.

[Fartsniffage]

Alright. So, so far it has been a unanimous "no". But then we also get into some complications that I pointed out to Amin. In most of Islam, a Muslim woman cannot be married to a non-Muslim. So, an Islamic government, even if it does not physically harm that apostate for doing such, would have to force a divorce, as in the case of the Egyptian scholar Nasr Abu Zayd. Would this not count as a punishment?

Islamic types could just not be cunts?

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Alright. So, so far it has been a unanimous "no". But then we also get into some complications that I pointed out to Amin. In most of Islam, a Muslim woman cannot be married to a non-Muslim. So, an Islamic government, even if it does not physically harm that apostate for doing such, would have to force a divorce, as in the case of the Egyptian scholar Nasr Abu Zayd. Would this not count as a punishment?

Islamic types could just not be cunts?

I mean, that works, too, but don't hold your breath. You're gonna run out of oxygen long before Islamic governments quit being assholes.

[Kowani]

Islamic types could just not be cunts?

I mean, that works, too, but don't hold your breath. You're gonna run out of oxygen long before Islamic governments quit being assholes.

To be fair, they...yeah no, I can’t find any justification for pretty much any Islamic government. Yeah the West didn’t exactly help, but damn if the ME doesn’t keep digging it’s hole deeper.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I mean, that works, too, but don't hold your breath. You're gonna run out of oxygen long before Islamic governments quit being assholes.

Yeah the West didn’t exactly help, but dang if the ME doesn’t keep digging it’s hole deeper.

Yeah, they gotta get it together.

[Fartsniffage]

Yeah the West didn’t exactly help, but dang if the ME doesn’t keep digging it’s hole deeper.

Yeah, they gotta get it together.

Perhaps the ME could accept that the Koran is not a literal document and move on a bit?

[Kubumba Tribe]

Yeah, they gotta get it together.

Perhaps the ME could accept that the Koran is not a literal document and move on a bit?

It....is a literal document. Idk how it isn't. What does that even mean?

[Fartsniffage]

Perhaps the ME could accept that the Koran is not a literal document and move on a bit?

It....is a literal document. Idk how it isn't. What does that even mean?

And that is your problem.

[Kubumba Tribe]

It....is a literal document. Idk how it isn't. What does that even mean?

And that is your problem.

I'm asking what you mean by it not being a literal document
https://www.google.com/search?safe=stri ... Yk5LR7HGNQ
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document:

"A document is a written, drawn, presented, or memorialized representation of thought."

According to these, the Holy Qur'an - or literally anything for that matter - is a document.

[Frievolk]

And that is your problem.

I'm asking what you mean by it not being a literal document
https://www.google.com/search?safe=stri ... Yk5LR7HGNQ
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document:

"A document is a written, drawn, presented, or memorialized representation of thought."

According to these, the Holy Qur'an - or literally anything for that matter - is a document.

He probably means "a document you have to accept and follow word for word as is"
At least, I'm assuming. I'm similarly confused at the term "literal document" lol