The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Jolthig]

I want to wish a happy Eid to all the Muslims on NSG.

Thank you, my deist brother

[Jolthig]

The reason why I do not reject the authority of the Quran is because the fact that it claims that God has taken unto Himself to be its Guardian. The companions agreed with the arrangement of the Quran by Zaid bin That it. This we agree on.

But with Hadith, all six books of Hadith; not a single one says they're divinely protected.

Ahmadi scholars accept the six authentic books of Hadith, but they take the same views I have on hadith. Mirza Bashirideen Ahmad, who made a Tafsir on the Quran rejected certain Hadith classified as authentic by Sunni scholars.

I suppose we have no common ground on the subject of hadith. So we'll leave it at that?

Interesting. Would it be correct to say the Ahmadis take a similar approach to Hadith as the Zaydis do, being refraining from the Sahih label and instead relying on scrutiny for every single hadith individually?

I'm not sure about that sect as I dont know much of the Zaydis, however, yeah, I take the approach of looking at everything of hadith. I don't skip Hadith labelled as Daif by some Sunni scholars. I believe Ahmadi scholars do the same?

Like I said, we believe in Hadith that is consistent with the Quran. Not a single Hadith is to contradict the Quran. Even if it's classified as Sahih by Sunni scholars such as the Hadith of Umar (ra) supposedly saying there's a missing verse in the Qu'ran

[Povolzhye Khaganate]

I echo Delta-9 with an Eid Mubarak from the agnostic me, who is one with a lot of respect for Islam and Muslims! It's a beautiful religion, with beautiful culture. Respect from an island so small, that it's not even properly drawn onto the world map I have in my room.

[El Hamidah]

Eid Mubarak

Hope you all had a blessed Eid

[Jolthig]

I echo Delta-9 with an Eid Mubarak from the agnostic me, who is one with a lot of respect for Islam and Muslims! It's a beautiful religion, with beautiful culture. Respect from an island so small, that it's not even properly drawn onto the world map I have in my room.

Khair mubarak to you!

Eid Mubarak

Hope you all had a blessed Eid

Khair mubarak

Sure did. It was great. Alhamdulilah

[Geneviev]

Could I please get a helpful summary of what I missed here? I don't have time to read through. Thanks.

Pilarcraft is happy he won't be whipped for drinking water, there was a discussion about hadith and one about Aisha.

How many discussions can there be about Aisha? Anyways, thank you.

Could I please get a helpful summary of what I missed here? I don't have time to read through. Thanks.

Me returning, a debate between myself and someone on here on Hadith, and Pilarcrafts return as well and his wishing of us of eid Mubarak and criticizing Iran's enforcement of Ramadan

Welcome back. This sounds fun.

[Alsheb]

She even commanded her own military forces in battle, I believe.

Against Ali out of all people (I mean, she kinda had a grudge towards him), hence the primary reason why Shi'as have a negative opinion of her.

Although I have read she and Ali actually mended their differences right before the battle, but their forces still clashed due to infiltrators within her army attacking Ali's troops.

[Pilarcraft]

Against Ali out of all people (I mean, she kinda had a grudge towards him), hence the primary reason why Shi'as have a negative opinion of her.

Although I have read she and Ali actually mended their differences right before the battle, but their forces still clashed due to infiltrators within her army attacking Ali's troops.

The Shia problem with Aisha is beyond her old enmity with Ali. The Shia are the only people who have a Hadd for 'Sabb-i-Nabi' (insulting the prophet), and Aisha was like, the only one of Muhammad's wives (aside from Khadijja, who's an exception) who openly questioned him when he did something dumb and then hid it behind 'But I'm the prophet!"

You see this repeated to the cultural enmity between The Banu-Israeil and The Shia (who, for the same reason, hate the Jews too. 'They questioned authority')

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Although I have read she and Ali actually mended their differences right before the battle, but their forces still clashed due to infiltrators within her army attacking Ali's troops.

The Shia problem with Aisha is beyond her old enmity with Ali. The Shia are the only people who have a Hadd for 'Sabb-i-Nabi' (insulting the prophet), and Aisha was like, the only one of Muhammad's wives (aside from Khadijja, who's an exception) who openly questioned him when he did something dumb and then hid it behind 'But I'm the prophet!"

You see this repeated to the cultural enmity between The Banu-Israeil and The Shia (who, for the same reason, hate the Jews too. 'They questioned authority')

So Shi'as dislike people "questioning authority", even though as a wife, it would be kind of expected that she'd argue with her own husband?

[Pilarcraft]

The Shia problem with Aisha is beyond her old enmity with Ali. The Shia are the only people who have a Hadd for 'Sabb-i-Nabi' (insulting the prophet), and Aisha was like, the only one of Muhammad's wives (aside from Khadijja, who's an exception) who openly questioned him when he did something dumb and then hid it behind 'But I'm the prophet!"

You see this repeated to the cultural enmity between The Banu-Israeil and The Shia (who, for the same reason, hate the Jews too. 'They questioned authority')

So Shi'as dislike people "questioning authority", even though as a wife, it would be kind of expected that she'd argue with her own husband?

I can't answer for the Sunnis (I'm not a sunni and don't know enough about their more subtle cultural elements in Islam) but The Shia basically don't believe in any form of questioning authority. It kind of goes against their very nature (and boy was this a troubling thing for me to learn as a 14 year old with growing skeptic tendencies asking questions in my religious class)

[Alsheb]

Although I have read she and Ali actually mended their differences right before the battle, but their forces still clashed due to infiltrators within her army attacking Ali's troops.

The Shia problem with Aisha is beyond her old enmity with Ali. The Shia are the only people who have a Hadd for 'Sabb-i-Nabi' (insulting the prophet), and Aisha was like, the only one of Muhammad's wives (aside from Khadijja, who's an exception) who openly questioned him when he did something dumb and then hid it behind 'But I'm the prophet!"

You see this repeated to the cultural enmity between The Banu-Israeil and The Shia (who, for the same reason, hate the Jews too. 'They questioned authority')

That is making a mockery of the fundamental Shia-Sunni disagreement. Especially considering the fact that insulting the companions of the Prophet has been condemned and banned by Imam Khamenei himself.

The Twelvers don't dislike Aisha over her disagreements with the Prophet. They dislike her for her open rebellion against Ali and indirectly empowering Muawiyah.

[Pilarcraft]

The Shia problem with Aisha is beyond her old enmity with Ali. The Shia are the only people who have a Hadd for 'Sabb-i-Nabi' (insulting the prophet), and Aisha was like, the only one of Muhammad's wives (aside from Khadijja, who's an exception) who openly questioned him when he did something dumb and then hid it behind 'But I'm the prophet!"

You see this repeated to the cultural enmity between The Banu-Israeil and The Shia (who, for the same reason, hate the Jews too. 'They questioned authority')

That is making a mockery of the fundamental Shia-Sunni disagreement. Especially considering the fact that insulting the companions of the Prophet has been condemned and banned by Imam Khamenei himself.

The Twelvers don't dislike Aisha over her disagreements with the Prophet. They dislike her for her open rebellion against Ali and indirectly empowering Muawiyah.

Tfw the day that Umar (one of the three most important members of the SAHABA) died is literally a Shia religious holiday supported by the IRI Government but "Senpai Khamenei banned cussing The Prophet's companions"
The Fundemental Shia-Sunni problem itself started when The Shia faked a Hadith (well, faked the 'meaning' of a Hadith, as the hadith itself is actually Muhiwaater) to cause a bifurcation in Islam's unified face (and then continued to fuck Islam in the ass until modern age, basically screwing all Muslims every time the Muslims were about to get a victory on Europe). Come back when you actually know what The Twelvers hate Aisha for, will you? I'm pretty sure as a person who's been one of them for 18 years, and has had experience dealing with them on a regular basis for even longer, I have a much more accurate understanding than you do.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

That is making a mockery of the fundamental Shia-Sunni disagreement. Especially considering the fact that insulting the companions of the Prophet has been condemned and banned by Imam Khamenei himself.

The Twelvers don't dislike Aisha over her disagreements with the Prophet. They dislike her for her open rebellion against Ali and indirectly empowering Muawiyah.

Tfw the day that Umar (one of the three most important members of the SAHABA) died is literally a Shia religious holiday supported by the IRI Government but "Senpai Khamenei banned cussing The Prophet's companions"
The Fundemental Shia-Sunni problem itself started when The Shia faked a Hadith (well, faked the 'meaning' of a Hadith, as the hadith itself is actually Muhiwaater) to cause a bifurcation in Islam's unified face (and then continued to fuck Islam in the ass until modern age, basically screwing all Muslims every time the Muslims were about to get a victory on Europe). Come back when you actually know what The Twelvers hate Aisha for, will you? I'm pretty sure as a person who's been one of them for 18 years, and has had experience dealing with them on a regular basis for even longer, I have a much more accurate understanding than you do.

I'd argue that Islam failing to consolidate in Europe aside from the Iberian Peninsula and the Balkans (and even then, they lost Iberia) is the reason our modern Western world exists.

Then again, had they won at Tours...

[Frievolk]

Tfw the day that Umar (one of the three most important members of the SAHABA) died is literally a Shia religious holiday supported by the IRI Government but "Senpai Khamenei banned cussing The Prophet's companions"
The Fundemental Shia-Sunni problem itself started when The Shia faked a Hadith (well, faked the 'meaning' of a Hadith, as the hadith itself is actually Muhiwaater) to cause a bifurcation in Islam's unified face (and then continued to fuck Islam in the ass until modern age, basically screwing all Muslims every time the Muslims were about to get a victory on Europe). Come back when you actually know what The Twelvers hate Aisha for, will you? I'm pretty sure as a person who's been one of them for 18 years, and has had experience dealing with them on a regular basis for even longer, I have a much more accurate understanding than you do.

I'd argue that Islam failing to consolidate in Europe aside from the Iberian Peninsula and the Balkans (and even then, they lost Iberia) is the reason our modern Western world exists.

Then again, had they won at Tours...

The Reason the Reconquista started was because the Shia sided with a rogue faction to rebel against the Umawids. The Umawids were terrible, sure, but they were still the major faction in the Islamic Civilization at that point.
Then, the same thing happened when the Ottomans were at the gates of Wien. The Ottomans were in Western Europe. Then the Safavid Shia waged war against them (and got their asses beaten in Chaldoran, but still).
I'm not siding with Muslims, I'm saying that the Shia have always actively tried to undermine Islam in every way.

[True Alimeria]

I know that sounds a little weird,
but could someone please write a Latin translation
for the Surah El-Fatiha for me? (use Deus for Allah please)
Just wanna know how it looks like.

Thanks in advance!

[Salus Maior]

Tfw the day that Umar (one of the three most important members of the SAHABA) died is literally a Shia religious holiday supported by the IRI Government but "Senpai Khamenei banned cussing The Prophet's companions"
The Fundemental Shia-Sunni problem itself started when The Shia faked a Hadith (well, faked the 'meaning' of a Hadith, as the hadith itself is actually Muhiwaater) to cause a bifurcation in Islam's unified face (and then continued to fuck Islam in the ass until modern age, basically screwing all Muslims every time the Muslims were about to get a victory on Europe). Come back when you actually know what The Twelvers hate Aisha for, will you? I'm pretty sure as a person who's been one of them for 18 years, and has had experience dealing with them on a regular basis for even longer, I have a much more accurate understanding than you do.

I'd argue that Islam failing to consolidate in Europe aside from the Iberian Peninsula and the Balkans (and even then, they lost Iberia) is the reason our modern Western world exists.

Then again, had they won at Tours...

The Arab army at Tours were only scouts. It wasn't a conquering army.

Though if Martel failed to defeat it that would have definitely been embarrassing.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Eid Mubarak, everyone!

[Aulus Maximus]

Eid Mubarak everyone

Eid Mubarak

Hope you all had a blessed Eid

Wa iyyaq ya akhi.

So Shi'as dislike people "questioning authority", even though as a wife, it would be kind of expected that she'd argue with her own husband?

I can't answer for the Sunnis (I'm not a sunni and don't know enough about their more subtle cultural elements in Islam) but The Shia basically don't believe in any form of questioning authority. It kind of goes against their very nature (and boy was this a troubling thing for me to learn as a 14 year old with growing skeptic tendencies asking questions in my religious class)

I disagree. Zaydis for example demand to remove an unjust leader. One could say that the actions of Hussayn ibn Ali for example also is a form of questioning authority, if not simply demanding its removal.

But then again there are teachers who don't like specific questions, usually because they do not know the answer and are too proud to admit that. I see it with colleagues and sometimes myself as well (middle school teacher in religion and philosophy here).

The Shia problem with Aisha is beyond her old enmity with Ali. The Shia are the only people who have a Hadd for 'Sabb-i-Nabi' (insulting the prophet), and Aisha was like, the only one of Muhammad's wives (aside from Khadijja, who's an exception) who openly questioned him when he did something dumb and then hid it behind 'But I'm the prophet!"

You see this repeated to the cultural enmity between The Banu-Israeil and The Shia (who, for the same reason, hate the Jews too. 'They questioned authority')

So Shi'as dislike people "questioning authority", even though as a wife, it would be kind of expected that she'd argue with her own husband?

That's a gross generalization of Shias in general.

[Frievolk]

I disagree. Zaydis for example demand to remove an unjust leader. One could say that the actions of Hussayn ibn Ali for example also is a form of questioning authority, if not simply demanding its removal.

But then again there are teachers who don't like specific questions, usually because they do not know the answer and are too proud to admit that. I see it with colleagues and sometimes myself as well (middle school teacher in religion and philosophy here)..

Please. Hussayn Ibn Ali was as far from a protest and questioning of authority as anything can be. It was just one pretender to the throne of the Caliphate challenging another. Hussayn was the pretender to Ali's throne and did not recognize Muawiyye's decision to let Yazid Success him. Whether or not his cause was just is another topic, but it was in no way a form of questioning authority in the form I am talking about.
And I'm not sure about Zaydis, since I'm not one, but I have been a shia for a long time and I can say that the Shia have the tendency to anti-republicanism and a view of "The Caliph is The Representative of God on Earth (Zallullah, meaning "Shadow of God") and therefore not questioned by anyone. Of course, that only worked for the ones they had given the title to but that's more of a hypocrisy thing than anything.

[Khataiy]

That is making a mockery of the fundamental Shia-Sunni disagreement. Especially considering the fact that insulting the companions of the Prophet has been condemned and banned by Imam Khamenei himself.

The Twelvers don't dislike Aisha over her disagreements with the Prophet. They dislike her for her open rebellion against Ali and indirectly empowering Muawiyah.

Tfw the day that Umar (one of the three most important members of the SAHABA) died is literally a Shia religious holiday supported by the IRI Government but "Senpai Khamenei banned cussing The Prophet's companions"
The Fundemental Shia-Sunni problem itself started when The Shia faked a Hadith (well, faked the 'meaning' of a Hadith, as the hadith itself is actually Muhiwaater) to cause a bifurcation in Islam's unified face (and then continued to fuck Islam in the ass until modern age, basically screwing all Muslims every time the Muslims were about to get a victory on Europe). Come back when you actually know what The Twelvers hate Aisha for, will you? I'm pretty sure as a person who's been one of them for 18 years, and has had experience dealing with them on a regular basis for even longer, I have a much more accurate understanding than you do.

Very well said

[Khataiy]

I know that sounds a little weird,
but could someone please write a Latin translation
for the Surah El-Fatiha for me? (use Deus for Allah please)
Just wanna know how it looks like.

Thanks in advance!

Bismillah Irahman Iraheem
Alhamdulillahi Rab al Ala'meen Maliki Yawm id Deen
Ihdin as sirahtul mustaqeen
Siratul ladheen am amta alayhim
Ghayrilmakhidoobi alayhim walladhaaaaleen

[Aulus Maximus]

Please. Hussayn Ibn Ali was as far from a protest and questioning of authority as anything can be. It was just one pretender to the throne of the Caliphate challenging another. Hussayn was the pretender to Ali's throne and did not recognize Muawiyye's decision to let Yazid Success him. Whether or not his cause was just is another topic, but it was in no way a form of questioning authority in the form I am talking about.

I disagree honestly. But do clarify what you mean with questioning authority, because it's not clear for me.

And I'm not sure about Zaydis, since I'm not one, but I have been a shia for a long time and I can say that the Shia have the tendency to anti-republicanism and a view of "The Caliph is The Representative of God on Earth (Zallullah, meaning "Shadow of God") and therefore not questioned by anyone. Of course, that only worked for the ones they had given the title to but that's more of a hypocrisy thing than anything.

I mean Zaydis don't have a Caliph or some sorts nor the idea of imamate which is a sole Twelver thing as far as I know. The five imams for Zaydis aren't infallible and they're pretty close to Sunnism in that aspect.

Most Shiism being spoken here is almost exclusively Twelver Shi'ism. With a divine mandate so to speak, imamate and so forth.

[True Alimeria]

I know that sounds a little weird,
but could someone please write a Latin translation
for the Surah El-Fatiha for me? (use Deus for Allah please)
Just wanna know how it looks like.

Thanks in advance!

Bismillah Irahman Iraheem
Alhamdulillahi Rab al Ala'meen Maliki Yawm id Deen
Ihdin as sirahtul mustaqeen
Siratul ladheen am amta alayhim
Ghayrilmakhidoobi alayhim walladhaaaaleen

Er thanks but I actually meant the El-Fatiha translated in Latin language.

[Khataiy]

Eid Mubarak everyone

Eid Mubarak

Hope you all had a blessed Eid

Wa iyyaq ya akhi.

I can't answer for the Sunnis (I'm not a sunni and don't know enough about their more subtle cultural elements in Islam) but The Shia basically don't believe in any form of questioning authority. It kind of goes against their very nature (and boy was this a troubling thing for me to learn as a 14 year old with growing skeptic tendencies asking questions in my religious class)

I disagree. Zaydis for example demand to remove an unjust leader. One could say that the actions of Hussayn ibn Ali for example also is a form of questioning authority, if not simply demanding its removal.

But then again there are teachers who don't like specific questions, usually because they do not know the answer and are too proud to admit that. I see it with colleagues and sometimes myself as well (middle school teacher in religion and philosophy here).

So Shi'as dislike people "questioning authority", even though as a wife, it would be kind of expected that she'd argue with her own husband?

That's a gross generalization of Shias in general.

Zaydis are really a different topic as there has never really been a power Zaydi state or nation like the way more mainstream Jafari Shias have like the Safavids, Fatimids and others.

[Khataiy]

Bismillah Irahman Iraheem
Alhamdulillahi Rab al Ala'meen Maliki Yawm id Deen
Ihdin as sirahtul mustaqeen
Siratul ladheen am amta alayhim
Ghayrilmakhidoobi alayhim walladhaaaaleen

Er thanks but I actually meant the El-Fatiha translated in Latin language.

Why