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The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What denomination of Islam are you part of?

Sunni Islam
121
30%
Sunni Islam (Salafism)
16
4%
Shia Islam
29
7%
Quranist
9
2%
Ahmadiyya
4
1%
Zaydi
8
2%
Ibadist
4
1%
Sufism
22
6%
I do not ascribe to any sect, just call me a Muslim
68
17%
Other
118
30%
 
Total votes : 399

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Old Tyrannia
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Posts: 16569
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:01 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Anyways y'all we're straying off topic.

Shari'ah should be everywhere wherever Muslims live.

Then Muslims should not live in my country.
Anglican monarchist, paternalistic conservative and Christian existentialist.
"It is spiritless to think that you cannot attain to that which you have seen and heard the masters attain. The masters are men. You are also a man. If you think that you will be inferior in doing something, you will be on that road very soon."
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo
⚜ GOD SAVE THE KING

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Neutraligon
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Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:01 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Actually they do, because they have actually read the torah. Once again, no where does it actually say not to eat milk and meat together in the Torah.

Maybe we should get Menassah in here to tell us all about how reform Jews follow the Law?

Or you can lookup the idea of kumra.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:01 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:How do reform Jews get around the whole Mosaic Law thing? That's not held to be part of Kashrut.

Depends on the synagogue and Jew.

The 613 Mosaic commandments aren't optional, regardless of your synagogue.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
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Conserative Morality
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Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:02 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Actually they do, because they have actually read the torah. Once again, no where does it actually say not to eat milk and meat together in the Torah.

Maybe we should get Menassah in here to tell us all about how reform Jews follow the Law?

Or how about religious authorities who no longer even accept reform conversions as legitimate?

Religious sects denying the validity of other sects is nothing new.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:02 pm

The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Anyways y'all we're straying off topic.

Shari'ah should be everywhere wherever Muslims live.

Of course but it shouldn't be imposed on the unbelievers.

It wouldn't be Shari'ah if it was ;)
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Neutraligon
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Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:02 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Depends on the synagogue and Jew.

The 613 Mosaic commandments aren't optional, regardless of your synagogue.

But the interpretation of those commandments change between synagogues.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Neutraligon
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Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:02 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Maybe we should get Menassah in here to tell us all about how reform Jews follow the Law?

Or how about religious authorities who no longer even accept reform conversions as legitimate?

Religious sects denying the validity of other sects is nothing new.

Looks at the various forms of Christianity, and then looks at the various forms of Islam.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:03 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The 613 Mosaic commandments aren't optional, regardless of your synagogue.

But the interpretation of those commandments change between synagogues.

The only interpretation that interprets them in such a way that you don't have to follow them is Reform Judaism, which is all but apostasy.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:03 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Anyways y'all we're straying off topic.

Shari'ah should be everywhere wherever Muslims live.

The Republic is secular.

Shariah is not.

Therefore, keep it out of my Republic.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:04 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Anyways y'all we're straying off topic.

Shari'ah should be everywhere wherever Muslims live.

The Republic is secular.

Shariah is not.

Therefore, keep it out of my Republic.

It's already partially in America.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:04 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:The Republic is secular.

Shariah is not.

Therefore, keep it out of my Republic.

It's already partially in America.

No, it's not.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:05 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:It's already partially in America.

No, it's not.

If there's no place for Shariah, there's no place for orthodox Islam.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:But the interpretation of those commandments change between synagogues.

The only interpretation that interprets them in such a way that you don't have to follow them is Reform Judaism, which is all but apostasy.

Once again no it isn't. They typically have various reasons why certain laws should not be followed, or should be followed in different ways.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

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The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket
Diplomat
 
Posts: 859
Founded: Mar 28, 2019
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Postby The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Anyways y'all we're straying off topic.

Shari'ah should be everywhere wherever Muslims live.

Then Muslims should not live in my country.

We don't need more ugly nationalism
1 By the morning hours
2 And by the night when it is stillest,
3 Thy Lord hath not forsaken thee nor doth He hate thee,
4 And verily the latter portion will be better for thee than the former,
5 And verily thy Lord will give unto thee so that thou wilt be content.
6 Did He not find thee an orphan and protect (thee) ?
7 Did He not find thee wandering and direct (thee) ?
8 Did He not find thee destitute and enrich (thee) ?
9 Therefor the orphan oppress not,
10 Therefor the beggar drive not away,
11 Therefor of the bounty of thy Lord be thy discourse


Read the Qur'an!
Introduction to Islam through understanding the Qur'an
Why Islam?

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:07 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:If there's no place for Shariah, there's no place for orthodox Islam.

There's also no place for orthodox Christianity under those same principles, and there never has been a place for it.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:07 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The only interpretation that interprets them in such a way that you don't have to follow them is Reform Judaism, which is all but apostasy.

Once again no it isn't. They typically have various reasons why certain laws should not be followed, or should be followed in different ways.

What other sect of Judaism allows the violation of the 613 commandments?
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:07 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:If there's no place for Shariah, there's no place for orthodox Islam.

There's also no place for orthodox Christianity under those same principles, and there never has been a place for it.

orthodox Christianity isn't a political system.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:08 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Once again no it isn't. They typically have various reasons why certain laws should not be followed, or should be followed in different ways.

What other sect of Judaism allows the violation of the 613 commandments?

I thought there wasn't any agreement over what the 613 commandments were and that it was just one of those numerology things esoteric rabbis used to go nuts over.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:09 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:It's already partially in America.

No, it's not.

https://www.guidanceresidential.com
https://www.halalchef.co/password
Or every masjid in function right now. All of these operate within the bounds of Shari'ah.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:10 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:What other sect of Judaism allows the violation of the 613 commandments?

I thought there wasn't any agreement over what the 613 commandments were and that it was just one of those numerology things esoteric rabbis used to go nuts over.

They seem pretty much in agreement in the Talmud from a cursory search, I could be wrong though.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:10 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:orthodox Christianity isn't a political system.

I have 1700 years of history that say otherwise.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:10 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:orthodox Christianity isn't a political system.

I have 1700 years of history that say otherwise.

I think he means theologically speaking.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:11 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:No, it's not.

https://www.guidanceresidential.com
https://www.halalchef.co/password
Or every masjid in function right now. All of these operate within the bounds of Shari'ah.

I never know if you're being deliberately foolish or not.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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Old Tyrannia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 16569
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:11 pm

The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Then Muslims should not live in my country.

We don't need more ugly nationalism

You respond to everything with these vague liberal soundbites that mean nothing and fail to advance any serious point against your opponents' arguments. Why not try actually defending your point of view properly?
Anglican monarchist, paternalistic conservative and Christian existentialist.
"It is spiritless to think that you cannot attain to that which you have seen and heard the masters attain. The masters are men. You are also a man. If you think that you will be inferior in doing something, you will be on that road very soon."
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo
⚜ GOD SAVE THE KING

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:11 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:I have 1700 years of history that say otherwise.

I think he means theologically speaking.

I have 1700 years of theology that say otherwise.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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