The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Napkiraly]

I like how there's an openly racist guy here even though his religion would forbid it.

Racist? Why would you call me that? I don't remember saying anywhere that a race is superior to others.

Look at your own sig, my cracka

[United States of Oceania]

>When Muhammad is described as white af

False. Muhammad SAWS is described as dark-skinned.

Al-Tirmidhī (d. 279/892) in his Jami’ al-Ṣāḥīḥ reports on the authority of the famous Companion of the Prophet, Anas b. Malik:

“The Messenger of Allah was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, [with] a beautiful, dark brown-complexioned body (ḥasan al-jism asmar al-lawn). His hair was neither curly nor completely straight and when he walked he leant forward.” (VI:69 no. 1754)

Ibn Manzur reports in his Lisān al-arab (s.v. سمر IV:376) that

“al-sumra [is] a degree between white (al-bayād) and black (al-aswad), and it is that in the context of human complexions, camels, etc.”

According to Ibn Athīr, al-sumra’s ‘blackness’ predominates over its ‘whiteness’ (al-sumra alladhī yaghlibu sawāduhu alā bayādihi), and al-Taftāzānī (d. 792/1390) reports in his al-Tahdhīd:

‘al-sumra…is a color inclining to a faint blackness (sawadin khafiyin), as in the description of the Prophet: he was brown complexioned (kāna asmar al-lawn)…”

Asmar/sumra is thus a shade of black. Linguistic scholar Abū Mansūr al-Tha’labī (d. 427/1036), enumerating the different “classifications of human blackness (fī tartīb sawād al-insān),” explains:

“if his maximum [blackness] (alāhu) is less than sawad (black), then he is asmar (brown). If his blackness is greater with yellow enhancing it then he is aṣham. If his blackness exceeds al-sumra then he is ādam. If it exceeds that, then it is asḥam. If his blackness is intense, then he is adlam. [Fiqh al-lugha, 82]

This suggests a hierarchy of intensifying blackness: asmar / sumra → sawad/ādam → aṣham → asḥam → adlam. It also implies that, while at the bottom of the hierarchy, asmar / sumra still falls within the category ‘black’. The Prophet Muhammad, according to a number of reports, was asmar.

and Arabs and turks consider themselves white (especially in their own countries)

Some stupid ultranationalist Turks, (mostly secularists, wannabe westerners and admirers of the accursed Ataturk) describe themselves white, but not all of them. I am of Azeri Turkish background.

As for Arabs, that's simply plain false. I have yet to meet an Arab who considers himself white, and if he did, I'm sure they would laugh at him day and night in his country.

[United States of Oceania]

Racist? Why would you call me that? I don't remember saying anywhere that a race is superior to others.

Look at your own sig, my cracka

My sig doesn't support racial superiority, are you even literate dude?

[Tebuh]

[Napkiraly]

Look at your own sig, my cracka

My sig doesn't support racial superiority, are you even literate dude?

Anti-White people cracka what do you think that is

[Negarakita]

>When Muhammad is described as white af

False. Muhammad SAWS is described as dark-skinned.

Al-Tirmidhī (d. 279/892) in his Jami’ al-Ṣāḥīḥ reports on the authority of the famous Companion of the Prophet, Anas b. Malik:

“The Messenger of Allah was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, [with] a beautiful, dark brown-complexioned body (ḥasan al-jism asmar al-lawn). His hair was neither curly nor completely straight and when he walked he leant forward.” (VI:69 no. 1754)

Ibn Manzur reports in his Lisān al-arab (s.v. سمر IV:376) that

“al-sumra [is] a degree between white (al-bayād) and black (al-aswad), and it is that in the context of human complexions, camels, etc.”

According to Ibn Athīr, al-sumra’s ‘blackness’ predominates over its ‘whiteness’ (al-sumra alladhī yaghlibu sawāduhu alā bayādihi), and al-Taftāzānī (d. 792/1390) reports in his al-Tahdhīd:

‘al-sumra…is a color inclining to a faint blackness (sawadin khafiyin), as in the description of the Prophet: he was brown complexioned (kāna asmar al-lawn)…”

Asmar/sumra is thus a shade of black. Linguistic scholar Abū Mansūr al-Tha’labī (d. 427/1036), enumerating the different “classifications of human blackness (fī tartīb sawād al-insān),” explains:

“if his maximum [blackness] (alāhu) is less than sawad (black), then he is asmar (brown). If his blackness is greater with yellow enhancing it then he is aṣham. If his blackness exceeds al-sumra then he is ādam. If it exceeds that, then it is asḥam. If his blackness is intense, then he is adlam. [Fiqh al-lugha, 82]

This suggests a hierarchy of intensifying blackness: asmar / sumra → sawad/ādam → aṣham → asḥam → adlam. It also implies that, while at the bottom of the hierarchy, asmar / sumra still falls within the category ‘black’. The Prophet Muhammad, according to a number of reports, was asmar.

and Arabs and turks consider themselves white (especially in their own countries)

Some stupid ultranationalist Turks, (mostly secularists, wannabe westerners and admirers of the accursed Ataturk) describe themselves white, but not all of them. I am of Azeri Turkish background.

As for Arabs, that's simply plain false. I have yet to meet an Arab who considers himself white, and if we did, I'm sure they would laugh at him day and night in his country.

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) was reported to have said:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ أَلَا إِنَّ رَبَّكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنَّ أَبَاكُمْ وَاحِدٌ أَلَا لَا فَضْلَ لِعَرَبِيٍّ عَلَى أَعْجَمِيٍّ وَلَا لِعَجَمِيٍّ عَلَى عَرَبِيٍّ وَلَا لِأَحْمَرَ عَلَى أَسْوَدَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ عَلَى أَحْمَرَ إِلَّا بِالتَّقْوَى أَبَلَّغْتُ

O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no virtue of an Arab over a foreigner nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness (Taqwa). Have I not delivered the message? [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 22978].

Also, he (s.a.w.a) said:

انْظُرْ فَإِنَّكَ لَيْسَ بِخَيْرٍ مِنْ أَحْمَرَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ إِلَّا أَنْ تَفْضُلَهُ بِتَقْوَى

“Behold! Verily, there is no good in red skin or black skin, but rather only by virtue of righteousness”. [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 20885].

I too can quote scripture to validate my beliefs.

[United States of Oceania]

(Image)

You can't bring that shaytaan as an example, because:

1) Syrians are half-Assyrians, not 100% Arabs.

2) That Ass-head pig has some Persian origin (from Isfahan).

3) Alawites are not Arabs, they are genetically more similar to Europeans.

[United States of Oceania]

False. Muhammad SAWS is described as dark-skinned.

Al-Tirmidhī (d. 279/892) in his Jami’ al-Ṣāḥīḥ reports on the authority of the famous Companion of the Prophet, Anas b. Malik:

“The Messenger of Allah was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, [with] a beautiful, dark brown-complexioned body (ḥasan al-jism asmar al-lawn). His hair was neither curly nor completely straight and when he walked he leant forward.” (VI:69 no. 1754)

Ibn Manzur reports in his Lisān al-arab (s.v. سمر IV:376) that

“al-sumra [is] a degree between white (al-bayād) and black (al-aswad), and it is that in the context of human complexions, camels, etc.”

According to Ibn Athīr, al-sumra’s ‘blackness’ predominates over its ‘whiteness’ (al-sumra alladhī yaghlibu sawāduhu alā bayādihi), and al-Taftāzānī (d. 792/1390) reports in his al-Tahdhīd:

‘al-sumra…is a color inclining to a faint blackness (sawadin khafiyin), as in the description of the Prophet: he was brown complexioned (kāna asmar al-lawn)…”

Asmar/sumra is thus a shade of black. Linguistic scholar Abū Mansūr al-Tha’labī (d. 427/1036), enumerating the different “classifications of human blackness (fī tartīb sawād al-insān),” explains:

“if his maximum [blackness] (alāhu) is less than sawad (black), then he is asmar (brown). If his blackness is greater with yellow enhancing it then he is aṣham. If his blackness exceeds al-sumra then he is ādam. If it exceeds that, then it is asḥam. If his blackness is intense, then he is adlam. [Fiqh al-lugha, 82]

This suggests a hierarchy of intensifying blackness: asmar / sumra → sawad/ādam → aṣham → asḥam → adlam. It also implies that, while at the bottom of the hierarchy, asmar / sumra still falls within the category ‘black’. The Prophet Muhammad, according to a number of reports, was asmar.




Some stupid ultranationalist Turks, (mostly secularists, wannabe westerners and admirers of the accursed Ataturk) describe themselves white, but not all of them. I am of Azeri Turkish background.

As for Arabs, that's simply plain false. I have yet to meet an Arab who considers himself white, and if we did, I'm sure they would laugh at him day and night in his country.

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) was reported to have said:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ أَلَا إِنَّ رَبَّكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنَّ أَبَاكُمْ وَاحِدٌ أَلَا لَا فَضْلَ لِعَرَبِيٍّ عَلَى أَعْجَمِيٍّ وَلَا لِعَجَمِيٍّ عَلَى عَرَبِيٍّ وَلَا لِأَحْمَرَ عَلَى أَسْوَدَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ عَلَى أَحْمَرَ إِلَّا بِالتَّقْوَى أَبَلَّغْتُ

O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no virtue of an Arab over a foreigner nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness (Taqwa). Have I not delivered the message? [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 22978].

Also, he (s.a.w.a) said:

انْظُرْ فَإِنَّكَ لَيْسَ بِخَيْرٍ مِنْ أَحْمَرَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ إِلَّا أَنْ تَفْضُلَهُ بِتَقْوَى

“Behold! Verily, there is no good in red skin or black skin, but rather only by virtue of righteousness”. [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 20885].

I too can quote scripture to validate my beliefs.

I'm not a supremacist.

[Federation of Islamic Tribal Areas]

(Image)

You can't bring that shaytaan as an example, because:

1) Syrians are half-Assyrians, not 100% Arabs.

2) That Ass-head pig has some Persian origin (from Isfahan).

3) Alawites are not Arabs, they are genetically more similar to Europeans.

Woah, be careful not to cut yourself with that amount of edge.

[Tebuh]

(Image)

You can't bring that shaytaan as an example, because:

1) Syrians are half-Assyrians, not 100% Arabs.

2) That Ass-head pig has some Persian origin (from Isfahan).

3) Alawites are not Arabs, they are genetically more similar to Europeans.

Wew lad

[Federation of Islamic Tribal Areas]

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) was reported to have said:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ أَلَا إِنَّ رَبَّكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنَّ أَبَاكُمْ وَاحِدٌ أَلَا لَا فَضْلَ لِعَرَبِيٍّ عَلَى أَعْجَمِيٍّ وَلَا لِعَجَمِيٍّ عَلَى عَرَبِيٍّ وَلَا لِأَحْمَرَ عَلَى أَسْوَدَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ عَلَى أَحْمَرَ إِلَّا بِالتَّقْوَى أَبَلَّغْتُ

O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no virtue of an Arab over a foreigner nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness (Taqwa). Have I not delivered the message? [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 22978].

Also, he (s.a.w.a) said:

انْظُرْ فَإِنَّكَ لَيْسَ بِخَيْرٍ مِنْ أَحْمَرَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ إِلَّا أَنْ تَفْضُلَهُ بِتَقْوَى

“Behold! Verily, there is no good in red skin or black skin, but rather only by virtue of righteousness”. [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 20885].

I too can quote scripture to validate my beliefs.

I'm not a supremacist.

>I'm not a supermacist

AGAINST: White people

[Negarakita]

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) was reported to have said:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ أَلَا إِنَّ رَبَّكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنَّ أَبَاكُمْ وَاحِدٌ أَلَا لَا فَضْلَ لِعَرَبِيٍّ عَلَى أَعْجَمِيٍّ وَلَا لِعَجَمِيٍّ عَلَى عَرَبِيٍّ وَلَا لِأَحْمَرَ عَلَى أَسْوَدَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ عَلَى أَحْمَرَ إِلَّا بِالتَّقْوَى أَبَلَّغْتُ

O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no virtue of an Arab over a foreigner nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness (Taqwa). Have I not delivered the message? [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 22978].

Also, he (s.a.w.a) said:

انْظُرْ فَإِنَّكَ لَيْسَ بِخَيْرٍ مِنْ أَحْمَرَ وَلَا أَسْوَدَ إِلَّا أَنْ تَفْضُلَهُ بِتَقْوَى

“Behold! Verily, there is no good in red skin or black skin, but rather only by virtue of righteousness”. [Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 20885].

I too can quote scripture to validate my beliefs.

I'm not a supremacist.

Hitler wasn't a supremacist he just hated the non-aryans.

I mean, I'm white, I have no great love of this race and in many ways dislike it, both aesthetically and historically, but I can't change it. I don't want to be hated because of something Allah has given me, for it wasn't my own choice. Allah had a prupose when he gave me this skin, and you shouldn't hate his works. By all means, hate the achievements of my race. But not it, for it is his work not ours.

[Pilarcraft]

Opinions on the mystical "sufism"

There are some traditions in some forms of Sufism I find hilariously dumb, but I still prefer them to Orthodox Islam

[United States of Oceania]

I'm not a supremacist.

Hitler wasn't a supremacist he just hated the non-aryans.

I mean, I'm white, I have no great love of this race and in many ways dislike it, both aesthetically and historically, but I can't change it. I don't want to be hated because of something Allah has given me, for it wasn't my own choice. Allah had a prupose when he gave me this skin, and you shouldn't hate his works. By all means, hate the achievements of my race. But not it, for it is his work not ours.

Look, when I say "White People" I don't really mean the skin color, I actually mean Western White Civilization.

I have nothing against Whites as individuals, I have many white friends.

[Pilarcraft]

You can't bring that shaytaan as an example, because:

1) Syrians are half-Assyrians, not 100% Arabs.

2) That Ass-head pig has some Persian origin (from Isfahan).

3) Alawites are not Arabs, they are genetically more similar to Europeans.

Wew lad

He's not wrong in that most Alawites are Indo-Persian, which is closer to Caucasian (they're both Indo-European) than Semite.
Tho, Alawite is a sect in Islam, and not an ethnicity in the first place lol

[Tebuh]

Opinions on the mystical "sufism"

There are some traditions in some forms of Sufism I find hilariously dumb, but I still prefer them to Orthodox Islam

Such as?

[Tebuh]

Hitler wasn't a supremacist he just hated the non-aryans.

I mean, I'm white, I have no great love of this race and in many ways dislike it, both aesthetically and historically, but I can't change it. I don't want to be hated because of something Allah has given me, for it wasn't my own choice. Allah had a prupose when he gave me this skin, and you shouldn't hate his works. By all means, hate the achievements of my race. But not it, for it is his work not ours.

Look, when I say "White People" I don't really mean the skin color, I actually mean Western White Civilization.

I have nothing against Whites as individuals, I have many white friends.

Maybe you should have that instead of white people?

[United States of Oceania]

Look, when I say "White People" I don't really mean the skin color, I actually mean Western White Civilization.

I have nothing against Whites as individuals, I have many white friends.

Maybe you should have that instead of white people?

It's not triggering enough for Alt-Righters.

[Pilarcraft]

There are some traditions in some forms of Sufism I find hilariously dumb, but I still prefer them to Orthodox Islam

Such as?

Their Idea of Living Religion (Most of them have a Qutb, so to speak, that they see as a pseudo-prophet in charge of religion). Which is mostly because I see clergy as a stupid concept in the first place.

[Negarakita]

Look, when I say "White People" I don't really mean the skin color, I actually mean Western White Civilization.

I have nothing against Whites as individuals, I have many white friends.

Maybe you should have that instead of white people?

Yeah might be a good idea. Its like someone putting 'I hate muslims" instead of "I hate the small minority of a huge group who commit violent acts".

[Napkiraly]

Hitler wasn't a supremacist he just hated the non-aryans.

I mean, I'm white, I have no great love of this race and in many ways dislike it, both aesthetically and historically, but I can't change it. I don't want to be hated because of something Allah has given me, for it wasn't my own choice. Allah had a prupose when he gave me this skin, and you shouldn't hate his works. By all means, hate the achievements of my race. But not it, for it is his work not ours.

Look, when I say "White People" I don't really mean the skin color, I actually mean Western White Civilization.

I have nothing against Whites as individuals, I have many white friends.

"Listen when I say I hate black people, I really mean black culture. I have many black friends."

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Maybe you should have that instead of white people?

It's not triggering enough for Alt-Righters.

You mean triggering enough for rational people who find the concept of being against someone because of their ethnicity to be stupid?

[United States of Oceania]

It's not triggering enough for Alt-Righters.

You mean triggering enough for rational people who find the concept of being against someone because of their ethnicity stupid?

I want to specifically trigger Alt-Righters, if others get triggered as well it's just collateral damage

[Azadistan-land of the free]

You mean triggering enough for rational people who find the concept of being against someone because of their ethnicity stupid?

I want to specifically trigger Alt-Righters, if others get triggered as well it's just collateral damage

Could be fair enough on the other hand don't end up like America lol

[Sahansahiye Iran]

You mean triggering enough for rational people who find the concept of being against someone because of their ethnicity stupid?

I want to specifically trigger Alt-Righters, if others get triggered as well it's just collateral damage

Yeah. At this point, I'm just gonna go ahead and toss you on the ignore list. It's gotten beyond ridiculous.