The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Zizou]

Not really. It is really up to the person to decide if they want to drink or not. It's not like the 1930s where the Prohibition would utterly failed simply because it was forced.

I low-key agree with the Prohibition. Yeah, I'd do it differently but I agree with the principle of it.

Alcohol is a dangerous substance, but at the same time, I really don't agree with the government telling it's citizens what is and isn't okay to eat or drink

In this instance, it's a fairly reasonable attitude to take. In the case of alcohol, it clouds your mind and judgement. One drink can quickly lead to 2, 3, 4, etc. Alcohol in particular presents an unnecessarily high risk of this happening.

It really doesn't. One glass of something like wine or mead with dinner does nothing to cloud your mind or judgement. Even several really doesn't.

One drink a day, over the course of a week, is approaching the limit for safe alcohol consumption.

[Nor Portland]

I mean drinking alcohol in general

Either way it's the same reply. Only Allah SWT knows how each sin will be punished. What's most important for us is to not do them.

I see. You see while youre beliefs regarding this arent illogical, I respectfully disagree with them. The purpose of life is to find union with Christ (or Allah/ God) and act out His will. If you are an alcoholic, you will be punished in this life via natural causes anyways. That's what sin is: Anything which damages the Temples (people) which God created.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Either way it's the same reply. Only Allah SWT knows how each sin will be punished. What's most important for us is to not do them.

I see. You see while youre beliefs regarding this arent illogical, I respectfully disagree with them. The purpose of life is to find union with Christ (or Allah/ God) and act out His will. If you are an alcoholic, you will be punished in this life via natural causes anyways. That's what sin is: Anything which damages the Temples (people) which God created.

Yeah, I agree with that definition.

[Nor Portland]

I see. You see while youre beliefs regarding this arent illogical, I respectfully disagree with them. The purpose of life is to find union with Christ (or Allah/ God) and act out His will. If you are an alcoholic, you will be punished in this life via natural causes anyways. That's what sin is: Anything which damages the Temples (people) which God created.

Yeah, I agree with that definition.

My mother called me a heretic over it once so dab

Pertaining to alcohol, alcohol in low quantities does not damage God's creation, so long as youre beyond the age of brain development. Thus it isnt sinful until you become gluttonous of it

[Jolthig]

Either way it's the same reply. Only Allah SWT knows how each sin will be punished. What's most important for us is to not do them.

I see. You see while youre beliefs regarding this arent illogical, I respectfully disagree with them. The purpose of life is to find union with Christ (or Allah/ God) and act out His will. If you are an alcoholic, you will be punished in this life via natural causes anyways. That's what sin is: Anything which damages the Temples (people) which God created.

Agreed.

[Jolthig]

Yeah, I agree with that definition.

My mother called me a heretic over it once so dab

Pertaining to alcohol, alcohol in low quantities does not damage God's creation, so long as youre beyond the age of brain development. Thus it isnt sinful until you become gluttonous of it

While Islam does view alcohol as unlawful, it does acknowledge its benefits. It is only because of its numerous disadvantages is why it is banned.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

My mother called me a heretic over it once so dab

Pertaining to alcohol, alcohol in low quantities does not damage God's creation, so long as youre beyond the age of brain development. Thus it isnt sinful until you become gluttonous of it

While Islam does view alcohol as unlawful, it does acknowledge its benefits. It is only because of its numerous disadvantages is why it is banned.

True

[Nor Portland]

While Islam does view alcohol as unlawful, it does acknowledge its benefits. It is only because of its numerous disadvantages is why it is banned.

True

My mother called me a heretic over it once so dab

Pertaining to alcohol, alcohol in low quantities does not damage God's creation, so long as youre beyond the age of brain development. Thus it isnt sinful until you become gluttonous of it

While Islam does view alcohol as unlawful, it does acknowledge its benefits. It is only because of its numerous disadvantages is why it is banned.

I see. Again though, this could be used for anything. You both agreed with my definition of sin, yes? Under the same guidelines for alcohol, that its curses outweigh its benefits, could the same argument be used for soda? Is drinking coca cola a sin?

[Jolthig]

True

While Islam does view alcohol as unlawful, it does acknowledge its benefits. It is only because of its numerous disadvantages is why it is banned.

I see. Again though, this could be used for anything. You both agreed with my definition of sin, yes? Under the same guidelines for alcohol, that its curses outweigh its benefits, could the same argument be used for soda? Is drinking coca cola a sin?

Yeah.

No. Soda isnt necessarily a sin, though one shouldn't drink excessively either.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

True

While Islam does view alcohol as unlawful, it does acknowledge its benefits. It is only because of its numerous disadvantages is why it is banned.

I see. Again though, this could be used for anything. You both agreed with my definition of sin, yes? Under the same guidelines for alcohol, that its curses outweigh its benefits, could the same argument be used for soda? Is drinking coca cola a sin?

Soda isn't an intoxicant, so no. I actually recently read something about whether junk food is Haraam, lemme show you:
https://islamqa.org/shafii/seekersguida ... fii/108402

[Nor Portland]

I see. Again though, this could be used for anything. You both agreed with my definition of sin, yes? Under the same guidelines for alcohol, that its curses outweigh its benefits, could the same argument be used for soda? Is drinking coca cola a sin?

Soda isn't an intoxicant, so no. I actually recently read something about whether junk food is Haraam, lemme show you:
https://islamqa.org/shafii/seekersguida ... fii/108402

Interesting. It mentions that it generally isnt mind-altering, but carbonated drinks have caffeine which, on a technicality, are stimulators. Does that not alter the mind?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Soda isn't an intoxicant, so no. I actually recently read something about whether junk food is Haraam, lemme show you:
https://islamqa.org/shafii/seekersguida ... fii/108402

Interesting. It mentions that it generally isnt mind-altering, but carbonated drinks have caffeine which, on a technicality, are stimulators. Does that not alter the mind?

True, but it's not on the level of alcohol or other "conventional mind-altering" substances. Also, yes, caffiene does stimulate, but it typically doesn't cloud one's judgement.

[Jolthig]

Soda isn't an intoxicant, so no. I actually recently read something about whether junk food is Haraam, lemme show you:
https://islamqa.org/shafii/seekersguida ... fii/108402

Interesting. It mentions that it generally isnt mind-altering, but carbonated drinks have caffeine which, on a technicality, are stimulators. Does that not alter the mind?

Caffeine, while, a stimulant, isn't really that much of an addictive substance nor do you get intoxicated by it unless if drunk excessively.

[Nor Portland]

Interesting. It mentions that it generally isnt mind-altering, but carbonated drinks have caffeine which, on a technicality, are stimulators. Does that not alter the mind?

True, but it's not on the level of alcohol or other "conventional mind-altering" substances. Also, yes, caffiene does stimulate, but it typically doesn't cloud one's judgement.

I get that, just wondering

On a personal level, do you think that's a tad bit too restrictive?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Interesting. It mentions that it generally isnt mind-altering, but carbonated drinks have caffeine which, on a technicality, are stimulators. Does that not alter the mind?

Caffeine, while, a stimulant, isn't really that much of an addictive substance nor do you get intoxicated by it unless if drunk excessively.

It's a stupidly addictive substance. iirc more Americans have a caffeine addiction than anything else, and it's usually just a few spots below alcohol and drugs like coke and meth in terms of addictiveness.

[Zizou]

Soda isn't an intoxicant, so no. I actually recently read something about whether junk food is Haraam, lemme show you:
https://islamqa.org/shafii/seekersguida ... fii/108402

Interesting. It mentions that it generally isnt mind-altering, but carbonated drinks have caffeine which, on a technicality, are stimulators. Does that not alter the mind?

Basically, the reasoning behind why caffeine and soda are permissible (to my knowledge) are presented in the Hadith:
It's mentioned in Hadith that Khamr was unlawful because "Khamr is that which covers [or clouds] the intellect." That, viewed through the lens of the Hadith: "Every intoxicant is unlawful," one would come to the conclusion that intoxicant, as it's used, is referring to anyting that interferes with one's ability to rationally think and make decisions. Alcohol does, while cocaine and soda do not.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

True, but it's not on the level of alcohol or other "conventional mind-altering" substances. Also, yes, caffiene does stimulate, but it typically doesn't cloud one's judgement.

I get that, just wondering

On a personal level, do you think that's a tad bit too restrictive?

I don't drink anyway (too young), and I have a strong aversion to it, so I'm fine with it.

[Nor Portland]

I get that, just wondering

On a personal level, do you think that's a tad bit too restrictive?

I don't drink anyway (too young), and I have a strong aversion to it, so I'm fine with it.

I get that. I may be a bit biased since I have a beer every other night, I just dont drink to get drunk.

I just feel as though, when incorporating human reasoning, to fully ban a substance will only either cause people to want to drink (rebelliousness against the status quo) or cause them to become addicted after a withdrawal from such substances (especially if theyre a convert)

[Jolthig]

Caffeine, while, a stimulant, isn't really that much of an addictive substance nor do you get intoxicated by it unless if drunk excessively.

It's a stupidly addictive substance. iirc more Americans have a caffeine addiction than anything else, and it's usually just a few spots below alcohol and drugs like coke and meth in terms of addictiveness.

No it isn't. The withdrawal symptoms of caffeine aren't as severe as coke and meth. Literally the worst thing you can get is a migraine. Whereas with math and heroin, you go through a depressive hell.

[Zizou]

It's a stupidly addictive substance. iirc more Americans have a caffeine addiction than anything else, and it's usually just a few spots below alcohol and drugs like coke and meth in terms of addictiveness.

No it isn't. The withdrawal symptoms of caffeine aren't as severe as coke and meth. Literally the worst thing you can get is a migraine. Whereas with math and heroin, you go through a depressive hell.

Math is very depressing, yes

[Negarakita]

Caffeine, while, a stimulant, isn't really that much of an addictive substance nor do you get intoxicated by it unless if drunk excessively.

It's a stupidly addictive substance. iirc more Americans have a caffeine addiction than anything else, and it's usually just a few spots below alcohol and drugs like coke and meth in terms of addictiveness.

Do we need a Nusret Hoca of Erzurum to advocate banning coffee?

[Washington Resistance Army]

It's a stupidly addictive substance. iirc more Americans have a caffeine addiction than anything else, and it's usually just a few spots below alcohol and drugs like coke and meth in terms of addictiveness.

No it isn't. The withdrawal symptoms of caffeine aren't as severe as coke and meth. Literally the worst thing you can get is a migraine. Whereas with math and heroin, you go through a depressive hell.

The symptoms being less severe does not negate the fact that it's addictive as all hell.

[Nor Portland]

Interesting. It mentions that it generally isnt mind-altering, but carbonated drinks have caffeine which, on a technicality, are stimulators. Does that not alter the mind?

Basically, the reasoning behind why caffeine and soda are permissible (to my knowledge) are presented in the Hadith:
It's mentioned in Hadith that Khamr was unlawful because "Khamr is that which covers [or clouds] the intellect." That, viewed through the lens of the Hadith: "Every intoxicant is unlawful," one would come to the conclusion that intoxicant, as it's used, is referring to anyting that interferes with one's ability to rationally think and make decisions. Alcohol does, while cocaine and soda do not.

That makes sense except.........

Cocaine doesnt?!

[Washington Resistance Army]

No it isn't. The withdrawal symptoms of caffeine aren't as severe as coke and meth. Literally the worst thing you can get is a migraine. Whereas with math and heroin, you go through a depressive hell.

Math is very depressing, yes

This^^^^^

Math is haram and should be banned, don't even @ me Islam thread

[Jolthig]

No it isn't. The withdrawal symptoms of caffeine aren't as severe as coke and meth. Literally the worst thing you can get is a migraine. Whereas with math and heroin, you go through a depressive hell.

The symptoms being less severe does not negate the fact that it's addictive as all hell.

You can literally get over caffeine cold Turkey much easier than other stimulants.

I'm not denying that there is problems. There definitely is among many Americans. Heart disease is common among excessive caffeine users.

Being a coffee drinker, my tolerance is climbing up there.