The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Gutulia]

Because this is a discussion thread, I have a question to all. why only Syiah have many followers in Iran ?

The Safavids made it their state religion and converted the nation under their rule.

Yah yah thanks for the answer Sahan! I'm very interested to learn more about Iran

[Frievolk]

There are a fuckload of Shia in Iraq too. Iran, in particular, is Shia due to history. Specifically, everything that happened after the Safavid dynasty.

Yup. There were a lot of religious politics involved around the time the Safavids converted to Shia. The Ottomans, to please the strict Sunni ulama at the time, persecuted Shiites, forcing them to migrate to states that aren't hostile to Shiites.

afaik The Shia (well, pre-twelver Shia, as Jafari (twelver) Shia is an entirely Safavid invention) had been persecuted by the two previous Caliphates since time immemorial.

[Negarakita]

The Safavids made it their state religion and converted the nation under their rule.

Yah yah thanks for the answer Sahan! I'm very interested to learn more about Iran

French frei is probably your best bet since he lives there. Also by Syiah, are you indo/malay? I'm interested in Islam from that area.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Jummah mubarak, and may you have a bright day in this joyful occasion
I found it actually surprising to know that you are in fact not much older than myself.

How old are you?

I'll send a tg about that.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Jumu'ah Mubarak, Happy birthday Jolthig, and Assalamu 'Alaikum wa RaHmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Gutulia

[Jolthig]

Jumu'ah Mubarak, Happy birthday Jolthig, and Assalamu 'Alaikum wa RaHmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Gutulia

Walakium salaam wa ramatullah wa barakatu

JazakAllah.

[Gutulia]

Yah yah thanks for the answer Sahan! I'm very interested to learn more about Iran

French frei is probably your best bet since he lives there. Also by Syiah, are you indo/malay? I'm interested in Islam from that area.

I'm an Indonesian Muslim brother. Islamic worship activities in Indonesia are always crowded especially during the month of Ramadan

[Gutulia]

Jumu'ah Mubarak, Happy birthday Jolthig, and Assalamu 'Alaikum wa RaHmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Gutulia

Wa'alaikumsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh El-Amin

[Negarakita]

French frei is probably your best bet since he lives there. Also by Syiah, are you indo/malay? I'm interested in Islam from that area.

I'm an Indonesian Muslim brother. Islamic worship activities in Indonesia are always crowded especially during the month of Ramadan

What are your thoughts on the Muhammadiyah (and NU I guess as well)? I find them very cool and like a lot of what they do, but you never really know from what you read on wikipedia+the google translated version of their website.

[Gutulia]

I'm an Indonesian Muslim brother. Islamic worship activities in Indonesia are always crowded especially during the month of Ramadan

What are your thoughts on the Muhammadiyah (and NU I guess as well)? I find them very cool and like a lot of what they do, but you never really know from what you read on wikipedia+the google translated version of their website.

both of them are the largest Islamic organizations in Indonesia. between them, only Nahdlatul Ulama have the biggest followers likes me. Actually, in Indonesia, it doesn't matter if you are a Muhammadiyah or nu you will remain Islam as long as you believe in Allah, the god of the universe. there are some differences between Muhammadiyah and Nahdlatul ulama that I read from various sources.

Tarawih (Salat in Ramadhan night)
Nahdlatul Ulama: 20 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir
Muhammadiyah: 8 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir

Qunut
Nahdlatul Ulama: use qunut while Salat subuh
Muhammadiyah: not use qunut

and also Nahdlatul Ulama is affiliated with political parties in Indonesia while Muhammadiyah is not affiliated with political parties and only focuses on developing modern Islamic education such as western education patterns but with additional Islamic teachings, therefore it is no stranger to often see schools established by Muhammadiyah in Indonesia . while Nahdlatul Ulama education is more focused on Pesantren schools

I am actually amazed by Muhammadiyah followers. Mostly, they are intelligent and highly educated people because supported by a good education system along with the implementation of Islamic values in daily activities

[The Eternal Aulus]

What are your thoughts on the Muhammadiyah (and NU I guess as well)? I find them very cool and like a lot of what they do, but you never really know from what you read on wikipedia+the google translated version of their website.

both of them are the largest Islamic organizations in Indonesia. between them, only Nahdlatul Ulama have the biggest followers likes me. Actually, in Indonesia, it doesn't matter if you are a Muhammadiyah or nu you will remain Islam as long as you believe in Allah, the god of the universe. there are some differences between Muhammadiyah and Nahdlatul ulama that I read from various sources.

Tarawih (Salat in Ramadhan night)
Nahdlatul Ulama: 20 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir
Muhammadiyah: 8 rakaat + 3 rakaat witir

Qunut
Nahdlatul Ulama: use qunut while Salat subuh
Muhammadiyah: not use qunut

and also Nahdlatul Ulama is affiliated with political parties in Indonesia while Muhammadiyah is not affiliated with political parties and only focuses on developing modern Islamic education such as western education patterns but with additional Islamic teachings, therefore it is no stranger to often see schools established by Muhammadiyah in Indonesia . while Nahdlatul Ulama education is more focused on Pesantren schools

I am actually amazed by Muhammadiyah followers. Mostly, they are intelligent and highly educated people because supported by a good education system along with the implementation of Islamic values in daily activities

Very interesting. Is there any Indonesian Islamic organization that you think will cause trouble in the Islamic community to come? With that I mean an organization which goes against mainstream opinion or is too ''liberal'' or ''conservative'' for the average Muslim in Indonesia?

[The Grims]

I can see it happening. Mohammed stroking and feeding his beloved cats, when suddenly a barking dog chases thrm up a tree.
HARAM ! Those beasties are, except when used for labour. But no love must be given to them, isn't that right my lovely little Isis ?
(where Isis is ofc a white persian)

That's not why they're haram.

But it makes Mohammed look so human and likeable

[Gospel Power]

How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

[The Eternal Aulus]

How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

Again it very depends on whom you ask, the groups differ hugely. But here is a good read.

Note that, just as in Christianity, man is seen as viceregent on earth. What that means however, depends on interprentation. Some think it's about preserving, others about using its resources to the most efficiency.

[Saranidia]

How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

Islam teaches that mankind are stewards(Khalifah) of the environment.
As Quran 2:30 teaches.

[The Eternal Aulus]

How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

Islam teaches that mankind are stewards(Khalifah) of the environment.
As Quran 2:30 teaches.

Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;

Note 22 (Quran Ref: 2:30 )

Lit., "establish on earth a successor" or a "vice-gerent". The term khalifah -derived from the verb khalafa, "he succeeded [another] " - is used in this allegory to denote man's rightful supremacy on earth, which is most suitably rendered by the expression "he shall inherit the earth" (in the sense of being given possession of it). See also 6:165, 27:62 and 35:39, where all human beings are - spoken of as khala'if al-ard.(Quran Ref: 2:30 )

[Frievolk]

Islam teaches that mankind are stewards(Khalifah) of the environment.
As Quran 2:30 teaches.

Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;

Note 22 (Quran Ref: 2:30 )

Lit., "establish on earth a successor" or a "vice-gerent". The term khalifah -derived from the verb khalafa, "he succeeded [another] " - is used in this allegory to denote man's rightful supremacy on earth, which is most suitably rendered by the expression "he shall inherit the earth" (in the sense of being given possession of it). See also 6:165, 27:62 and 35:39, where all human beings are - spoken of as khala'if al-ard.(Quran Ref: 2:30 )

Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"

[The Eternal Aulus]

Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;

Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"

That's why I said that the word ''vicegerent'' can have different implications, depending on whom you ask. Nevertheless I do think that it's, these days, more interpreted in environmentalist terms.

[Jolthig]

Additional extra info from the tafsir of Mohamed Asad;

Then that would mean the opposite of "guarding it" (i.e. "protecting it") because it's pretty much "everything belongs to us now"

Actually no. There isn't any contradiction so as long as man is obedient to Allah and takes care of his earth. The reason why men are khalifeen is because according to the Quran, being given worldly things and prospering from it is a trial. If man fails, like Adam did, consequences occur (obviously I dont believe Adam caused all of mankind to sin as I believe the whole story to be a good allegory). Man is still personally responsible for maintaining this earth much like how a government is responsible for maintaining its citizens.

[Jolthig]

How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

The environment should be taken care of as humanity are God's servants. Like for example, cleanliness is a part of faith, and Muslims should strive to keep their environments clean (i.e. physical, personal, spiritual, etc.)

[Frievolk]

How Islam views the environment?, are Islamic teachings teach you about this stuff?.

The environment should be taken care of as humanity are God's servants. Like for example, cleanliness is a part of faith, and Muslims should strive to keep their environments clean (i.e. physical, personal, spiritual, etc.)

Friendly reminder that like most people, I am no one's "Abd" (i.e. Slave)

[Jolthig]

The environment should be taken care of as humanity are God's servants. Like for example, cleanliness is a part of faith, and Muslims should strive to keep their environments clean (i.e. physical, personal, spiritual, etc.)

Friendly reminder that like most people, I am no one's "Abd" (i.e. Slave)

According to the Quran, you are.

Not in the sense that you are a Muslim, rather, because every single particle submits to Allah and you have full permission from Allah to be atheist due to free will.

Abdullah Frievolk.

[Frievolk]

Friendly reminder that like most people, I am no one's "Abd" (i.e. Slave)

According to the Quran, you are.

Not in the sense that you are a Muslim, rather, because every single particle submits to Allah and you have full permission from Allah to be atheist due to free will.

Abdullah Frievolk.

That's precisely one of my problems with Islam. One that, of course, our Arabic teachers oh-so-wonderfully averted by translating عبد as بنده rather than the correct translation of برده (The two words mean pretty much the same, but the first word is often used as a way of referring to self [which of course has its origin in the oppression of Iranians by the Arabs this last 1400 years but I digress] so it didn't have that undertone. It took me 5 years to actually comprehend that it means "slave", not "servant".)
I mean, sure, it makes sense (especially when you take into account the fact the religion's very name literally means Submission) and at the time it was created (roughly 1400 years ago) maybe it was the norm but honestly? To suggest Humans are slaves is inherently insulting, to say the least.

[Jolthig]

According to the Quran, you are.

Not in the sense that you are a Muslim, rather, because every single particle submits to Allah and you have full permission from Allah to be atheist due to free will.

Abdullah Frievolk.

That's precisely one of my problems with Islam. One that, of course, our Arabic teachers oh-so-wonderfully averted by translating عبد as بنده rather than the correct translation of برده (The two words mean pretty much the same, but the first word is often used as a way of referring to self [which of course has its origin in the oppression of Iranians by the Arabs this last 1400 years but I digress] so it didn't have that undertone. It took me 5 years to actually comprehend that it means "slave", not "servant".)
I mean, sure, it makes sense (especially when you take into account the fact the religion's very name literally means Submission) and at the time it was created (roughly 1400 years ago) maybe it was the norm but honestly? To suggest Humans are slaves is inherently insulting, to say the least.

Servant can also go hand and hand with slave. Either way is fine according to the Arabic. Because of someone says, "You are now my servant and you will do whatever I command." I take servant to mean slavery. Especially in the context of Abd. Because the person, who ever they are assigned to, is serving someone and doing whatever they want them to do. Which is also the definition of slave. I understand your view though, knowing your political ideals.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

believes only in the god of the jews.

Allah SWT is the God of all creation, not just Jews.