At the moment I have no sources handy, but I'll send some to you asap, akhi.
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by Dahyan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:12 am
by Saranidia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:15 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Saranidia wrote:
Roman slavery was worse in my opinion since I remember reading anyone could rape a slave provided they didn't "damage the goods". In contrast Islam forbids slaves being forced into prostitution in Quran 24:33
And we can't rape slaves nor mistreat them in any way.
by Izaakia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:59 am
Saranidia wrote:Frievolk wrote:No, you're talking about an economic system of wealth that has, historically speaking, been worse than anything comparable to it in other cultures at any time. It was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Roman slavery) back during your founder's time, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. European serfdom, chattel slavery) during the Caliphates and early Ottomans, it was worse than other types of slavery (i.e. Trans-Atlantic Slavery) during late Ottomans, and it was only abolished recently (as recently as 1980) because non-Muslims knew better and forced you to.
Does it really matter what you are or aren't talking about? No. No it does not.
Roman slavery was worse in my opinion since I remember reading anyone could rape a slave provided they didn't "damage the goods". In contrast Islam forbids slaves being forced into prostitution in Quran 24:33
by Frievolk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:03 am
Izaakia wrote:Saranidia wrote:
Roman slavery was worse in my opinion since I remember reading anyone could rape a slave provided they didn't "damage the goods". In contrast Islam forbids slaves being forced into prostitution in Quran 24:33
Knowing what Islamic countries are like, they’d probably stone the slave girl as an adulterer if she was raped.
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt ♔
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.
by Izaakia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:07 am
by Saranidia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:05 am
Izaakia wrote:Saranidia wrote:
Roman slavery was worse in my opinion since I remember reading anyone could rape a slave provided they didn't "damage the goods". In contrast Islam forbids slaves being forced into prostitution in Quran 24:33
Knowing what Islamic countries are like, they’d probably stone the slave girl as an adulterer if she was raped.
by Saranidia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:06 am
by Frievolk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:07 am
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt ♔
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.
by Saranidia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:20 am
by Izaakia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:25 am
by El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:31 am
Izaakia wrote:Saudi Arabia
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ition-king
Iran
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1131193002
Turkey
http://hir.harvard.edu/blog/jasmine-ome ... -in-turkey
Egypt
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... ht-to-work
It’s the same story across every Muslim nation.
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by Izaakia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:49 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Izaakia wrote:Saudi Arabia
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ition-king
Iran
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1131193002
Turkey
http://hir.harvard.edu/blog/jasmine-ome ... -in-turkey
Egypt
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... ht-to-work
It’s the same story across every Muslim nation.
Yes, Muslim-majority nations' govs are DHaalimoon (wrongdoers).
In other news, the sky is blue and sometimes has clouds.
by Frievolk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:51 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Izaakia wrote:Saudi Arabia
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ition-king
Iran
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1131193002
Turkey
http://hir.harvard.edu/blog/jasmine-ome ... -in-turkey
Egypt
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... ht-to-work
It’s the same story across every Muslim nation.
Yes, Muslim-majority nations' govs are DHaalimoon (wrongdoers).
In other news, the sky is blue and sometimes has clouds.
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt ♔
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.
by Jolthig » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:53 am
Frievolk wrote:El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Yes, Muslim-majority nations' govs are DHaalimoon (wrongdoers).
In other news, the sky is blue and sometimes has clouds.
Ironic that every single Muslim country in human history, including Muhammad's Caliphate, have horrible second-class citizenship for women, the People of the book, etc, hmm?
I'm sure they're all at fault and Islam is innocent. I wonder, how many times do we need to give Islam grace before we decide "so maybe this religion is just problematic" like we did with fascism?
by USS Monitor » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:55 am
by Frievolk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:57 am
Jolthig wrote:Frievolk wrote:Ironic that every single Muslim country in human history, including Muhammad's Caliphate, have horrible second-class citizenship for women, the People of the book, etc, hmm?
I'm sure they're all at fault and Islam is innocent. I wonder, how many times do we need to give Islam grace before we decide "so maybe this religion is just problematic" like we did with fascism?
And exactly how did Muhammad treat women as "second class"?
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt ♔
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.
by Saranidia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:59 am
Frievolk wrote:El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Yes, Muslim-majority nations' govs are DHaalimoon (wrongdoers).
In other news, the sky is blue and sometimes has clouds.
Ironic that every single Muslim country in human history, including Muhammad's Caliphate, have horrible second-class citizenship for women, the People of the book, etc, hmm?
I'm sure they're all at fault and Islam is innocent. I wonder, how many times do we need to give Islam grace before we decide "so maybe this religion is just problematic" like we did with fascism?
by Izaakia » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:01 pm
by Jolthig » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:02 pm
Frievolk wrote:Jolthig wrote:And exactly how did Muhammad treat women as "second class"?
Seriously, Jolthig? I respect you as a fellow roamer of the NS, and see you as a friend, but we've been through this a lot of times. I've brought my arguments, you've brought yours. We disagreed with each other every time, in this case (I notice you didn't deny the "People of the book" thing, of course).
Do you really want us to get into the argument again, and end up with an agree to disagree situation, again?https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=34897437#p34897437
by Frievolk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:04 pm
1- Yeah, from your point of view. From a certain point of view, Islam is also by definition evil. Yet, we've given it grace after grace after grace, one chance after the other after Muhammad brought chaos to Arabia, after The Rashidun commited gnocide in Persia, after the Umavids enslaved Iberia and marched all the way to France, after the Abbasids went so nuts they started ethnic cleansing in India, when the Ottoman slave hunting went so nuts Castile had to go around the world to find a way to India, when one Islamic country after the other continued oppressing people, and even now, when Muslims march in protest, asking for a person to be executed in Pakistan for blasphemy. How many times is Islam supposed to be given a chance? When do we get to say enough is enough?Saranidia wrote:Frievolk wrote:Ironic that every single Muslim country in human history, including Muhammad's Caliphate, have horrible second-class citizenship for women, the People of the book, etc, hmm?
I'm sure they're all at fault and Islam is innocent. I wonder, how many times do we need to give Islam grace before we decide "so maybe this religion is just problematic" like we did with fascism?
1- Fascism is by definition evil.
2- Also I believe Muhammad said when a rapist was killed in self-defence "there is no diyyah for this man" in other words not even compensation should be given for the life of a rapist killed by an innocent woman in self defence,
3- his wife was a master merchant including after converting to Islam, he forbade the forced prostitution of slaves and he said men and women are equal in Quran 3:195
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt ♔
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.
by Frievolk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:06 pm
Meh, things like this tend to get forgotten. The debacle about Muhammad and women is something that pops up in the thread every ten or so pages, so no worriesJolthig wrote:Frievolk wrote:Seriously, Jolthig? I respect you as a fellow roamer of the NS, and see you as a friend, but we've been through this a lot of times. I've brought my arguments, you've brought yours. We disagreed with each other every time, in this case (I notice you didn't deny the "People of the book" thing, of course).
Do you really want us to get into the argument again, and end up with an agree to disagree situation, again?https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=34897437#p34897437
I understand that you're heated from Amin; which makes me ask, since you asked me why are we arguing; why are you arguing with Amin then if you and him disagree as well.
As for me, if we did already argue and brought our points, forgive me then. I agree that we can agree to disagree.
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt ♔
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.
by Jolthig » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:08 pm
Frievolk wrote:Meh, things like this tend to get forgotten. The debacle about Muhammad and women is something that pops up in the thread every ten or so pages, so no worriesJolthig wrote:I understand that you're heated from Amin; which makes me ask, since you asked me why are we arguing; why are you arguing with Amin then if you and him disagree as well.
As for me, if we did already argue and brought our points, forgive me then. I agree that we can agree to disagree.
by El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:12 pm
Frievolk wrote:El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Yes, Muslim-majority nations' govs are DHaalimoon (wrongdoers).
In other news, the sky is blue and sometimes has clouds.
Ironic that every single Muslim country in human history, including Muhammad's Caliphate, have horrible second-class citizenship for women, the People of the book, etc, hmm?
Frievolk wrote:I'm sure they're all at fault and Islam is innocent.
Frievolk wrote:I wonder, how many times do we need to give Islam grace before we decide "so maybe this religion is just problematic" like we did with fascism?
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
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