The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Gospel Power]

Well, I believe in God but I am a Christian, so according to Islam I am going to hell? well that's the same thing Christianity teach me, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell, well there is only one truth out there

[Genivaria]

Well, I believe in God but I am a Christian, so according to Islam I am going to hell? well that's the same thing Christianity teach me, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell, well there is only one truth out there

And yet ya'll could both be wrong and noone is getting tortured forever for no reason.

[Gospel Power]

Well, I believe in God but I am a Christian, so according to Islam I am going to hell? well that's the same thing Christianity teach me, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell, well there is only one truth out there

And yet ya'll could both be wrong and noone is getting tortured forever for no reason.

Well, there is definitely something out there, humans are too much superior next to animals.
most people believe in that, so we have religions, there are people that were raised as Christians and because of that they believe in Jesus, and some of them check that religion and see that as true
and some leave.
same about muslims, it's all a matter of faith, same about atheists, most of them became atheists from their own will, no one can prove or disprove the existence of God, I believe in Christianity because I found it to be the most true for me, maybe God is just a force like Taoism teaches.
but I definitely believe that there is a God, and accept the teachings of Christianity that explains God through the Christian view, it's all a matter of faith.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Well, I believe in God but I am a Christian, so according to Islam I am going to hell? well that's the same thing Christianity teach me, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell, well there is only one truth out there

noone is getting tortured forever for no reason.

If you still believe in tawheed, yes, then you won't be punished forever.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Well, I believe in God but I am a Christian, so according to Islam I am going to hell? well that's the same thing Christianity teach me, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell, well there is only one truth out there

That's for Allah (SWT) to judge, not us.

[Kowani]

Well, I believe in God but I am a Christian, so according to Islam I am going to hell? well that's the same thing Christianity teach me, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell, well there is only one truth out there

That's for Allah (SWT) to judge, not us.

Or for God. Or Osiris (Well, more like his scale, but still.) Or Hel. Or any god of death in any religion, because you can’t prove any of them.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Or Osiris (Well, more like his scale, but still.)

I mean, technically wasn't it Anubis who attended the weighing of the heart?

[Russiyskaya Respublica]

Well, I believe in God but I am a Christian, so according to Islam I am going to hell? well that's the same thing Christianity teach me, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell, well there is only one truth out there

That's for Allah (SWT) to judge, not us.

But what makes your god real, and not, for example, Vishnu?

[Frievolk]

That's for Allah (SWT) to judge, not us.

But what makes your god real, and not, for example, Vishnu?

His god said so.

[The Huskar Social Union]

But what makes your god real, and not, for example, Vishnu?

His god said so.

Nailed it.

[Jolthig]

Does Sahih Bukhari 25 say to kill disbelievers until they embrace Islam?

A common Hadith that is raised by both opponents of Islam and Salafist is that Muhammad (saw) said:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

They say it means that all disbelievers should be fought against until they embrace Islam. However there are numerous historical inaccuracies in this interpretation of this Hadith. It also goes against al-Baqarah 2:256 where it says there's no comparison in religion.

I would argue that Sahih Bukhari Hadith doesn't say that Muslims need to force people to convert to Islam.

Hazrat Jabir (ra) gives a more detailed explanation in Sahih Muslim Hadith #21 c:

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said:

I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).

Another detailed Hadith from an-Nasa'i Hadith #3982 says:

It was narrated that An-Nu'man bin Salim said:

"I heard Aws say: 'I came to the Messenger of Allah [SAW] among the delegation of Thaqif and I was with him in a tent. Everyone in the tent had gone to sleep except him and I. A man came and whispered to him, and he said: Go and kill him. Then he said: Does he not bear witness to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah? He said: He does bear witness to that. The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: Leave him alone. Then he said: I have been commanded to fight the people until they say La ilaha illallah. If they say it, then their blood and their wealth become forbidden to me, except for a right that is due. (One of the narrators) Muhammad said: I said to Shu'bah: 'Doesn't the Hadith contain: Does he not testify to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah?' He said: 'I think it is both, but I do not know.'"

The tribe of Thaqif, like the Meccans, were quite hostile to Muhammad. This is why a man said that Aws should be killed, but because Aws became a Muslim, Muhammad forbade the man to kill him. This shows that Muhammad did not say "Embrace Islam or die". He meant, "I will fight the disbelievers who are hostile to me unless they have a change of heart and become Muslims."

This adds up the Hadith I quoted from Jabir in Sahih Muslim 21 c that he did not say "Force the believers to become Muslims". He quoted form the Qu'ran that he is not a dictator over the people.

The reason Muhammad ceased from continuing on fighting former idolators is because in another Hadith, he says:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. And a Muhajir (emigrant) is the one who gives up (abandons) all what Allah has forbidden."

حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ بْنُ أَبِي إِيَاسٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي السَّفَرِ، وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ الْمُسْلِمُ مَنْ سَلِمَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ مِنْ لِسَانِهِ وَيَدِهِ، وَالْمُهَاجِرُ مَنْ هَجَرَ مَا نَهَى اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ وَقَالَ أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ حَدَّثَنَا دَاوُدُ عَنْ عَامِرٍ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ وَقَالَ عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى عَنْ دَاوُدَ عَنْ عَامِرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 10In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 3USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 10  (deprecated numbering scheme)

He further says:

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais:

While I was going to help this man ('Ali Ibn Abi Talib), Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I am going to help that person." He said, "Go back for I have heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, 'When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.' I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?' Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "He surely had the intention to kill his companion."

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَيُّوبُ، وَيُونُسُ، عَنِ الْحَسَنِ، عَنِ الأَحْنَفِ بْنِ قَيْسٍ، قَالَ ذَهَبْتُ لأَنْصُرَ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ، فَلَقِيَنِي أَبُو بَكْرَةَ فَقَالَ أَيْنَ تُرِيدُ قُلْتُ أَنْصُرُ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ‏.‏ قَالَ ارْجِعْ فَإِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِذَا الْتَقَى الْمُسْلِمَانِ بِسَيْفَيْهِمَا فَالْقَاتِلُ وَالْمَقْتُولُ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هَذَا الْقَاتِلُ فَمَا بَالُ الْمَقْتُولِ قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حَرِيصًا عَلَى قَتْلِ صَاحِبِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 31In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 24USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 31  (deprecated numbering scheme)


So therefore, the anti-Islamic and Salafist interpretation of Sahih Bukhari 25 is false and as I've demonstrated from Sahih Muslim 21 c and An-Nasa'i 3982, he said he will fight the hostile idolators until they change their minds.

The Hadith I will quote from Sunan Dawud also lends support to my above arguments:

Sulaiman bin Buraidah reported on the authority of his father. When the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) appointed a Commander over an Army or a detachment, he instructed him to fear Allaah himself and consider the welfare of the Muslims who were with him. He then said “When you meet the polytheists who are your enemy, summon them tone of three things and accept whichever of them they are willing to agree to, and refrain from them. Summon them to Islam and if they agree, accept it from them and refrain from them. Then summon them to leave their territory and transfer to the abode of the Emigrants and tell them that if they do so, they will have the same rights and responsibilities as the Emigrants, but if they refuse and choose their own abode, tell them that they will be like the desert Arabs who are Muslims subject to Allaah’s jurisdiction which applies to the believers, but will have no spoil or booty unless they strive with the Muslims. If they refuse demand jizyah (poll tax) from them, if they agree accept it from them and refrain from them. But if they refuse, seek Alaah’s help and fight with them. When you invade the fortress and they (its people) offer to capitulate and have the matter referred to Allaah’s jurisdiction, do not grant this, for you do not know whether or not you will hit on Allaah’s jurisdiction regarding them. But let them capitulate and have the matter refereed to your jurisdiction and make a decision about them later on as you wish.

Sufyan (bin ‘Uyainah) said thah ‘Alqamah said “I mentioned this tradition to Muqatil bin Habban, He said “Muslim narrated it to me.” Abu Dawud said “He is Ibn Haidam narrated from Al Nu’man in Muqqarin from the Prophet (ﷺ) like the tradition of Sulaiman bin Buraidah.


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ الأَنْبَارِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ بْنِ مَرْثَدٍ، عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا بَعَثَ أَمِيرًا عَلَى سَرِيَّةٍ أَوْ جَيْشٍ أَوْصَاهُ بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ فِي خَاصَّةِ نَفْسِهِ وَبِمَنْ مَعَهُ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ خَيْرًا وَقَالَ ‏ "‏ إِذَا لَقِيتَ عَدُوَّكَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِحْدَى ثَلاَثِ خِصَالٍ أَوْ خِلاَلٍ فَأَيَّتُهَا أَجَابُوكَ إِلَيْهَا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمُ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى الإِسْلاَمِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوكَ فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ ثُمَّ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى التَّحَوُّلِ مِنْ دَارِهِمْ إِلَى دَارِ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ إِنْ فَعَلُوا ذَلِكَ أَنَّ لَهُمْ مَا لِلْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ مَا عَلَى الْمُهَاجِرِينَ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا وَاخْتَارُوا دَارَهُمْ فَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ يَكُونُونَ كَأَعْرَابِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ يُجْرَى عَلَيْهِمْ حُكْمُ اللَّهِ الَّذِي يَجْرِي عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَكُونُ لَهُمْ فِي الْفَىْءِ وَالْغَنِيمَةِ نَصِيبٌ إِلاَّ أَنْ يُجَاهِدُوا مَعَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ فَإِنْ هُمْ أَبَوْا فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِعْطَاءِ الْجِزْيَةِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا فَاسْتَعِنْ بِاللَّهِ تَعَالَى وَقَاتِلْهُمْ وَإِذَا حَاصَرْتَ أَهْلَ حِصْنٍ فَأَرَادُوكَ أَنْ تُنْزِلَهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِ اللَّهِ تَعَالَى فَلاَ تُنْزِلْهُمْ فَإِنَّكُمْ لاَ تَدْرُونَ مَا يَحْكُمُ اللَّهُ فِيهِمْ وَلَكِنْ أَنْزِلُوهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِكُمْ ثُمَّ اقْضُوا فِيهِمْ بَعْدُ مَا شِئْتُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ سُفْيَانُ بْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ قَالَ عَلْقَمَةُ فَذَكَرْتُ هَذَا الْحَدِيثَ لِمُقَاتِلِ بْنِ حَيَّانَ فَقَالَ حَدَّثَنِي مُسْلِمٌ - قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ هُوَ ابْنُ هَيْصَمٍ - عَنِ النُّعْمَانِ بْنِ مُقَرِّنٍ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِثْلَ حَدِيثِ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ ‏.‏

Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)  صحيح   (الألباني)حكم     :

Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 2612In-book reference : Book 15, Hadith 136English translation : Book 14, Hadith 2606


Again, the idolators were never forced to give up their faith. If they didn't want to give up their faith, they payed Jizya and lived in peace with the Muslims. Just like the People of the Book.

[Larin]

Does Sahih Bukhari 25 say to kill disbelievers until they embrace Islam?

A common Hadith that is raised by both opponents of Islam and Salafist is that Muhammad (saw) said:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

They say it means that all disbelievers should be fought against until they embrace Islam. However there are numerous historical inaccuracies in this interpretation of this Hadith. It also goes against al-Baqarah 2:256 where it says there's no comparison in religion.

I would argue that Sahih Bukhari Hadith doesn't say that Muslims need to force people to convert to Islam.

Hazrat Jabir (ra) gives a more detailed explanation in Sahih Muslim Hadith #21 c:

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said:

I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).

Another detailed Hadith from an-Nasa'i Hadith #3982 says:

It was narrated that An-Nu'man bin Salim said:

"I heard Aws say: 'I came to the Messenger of Allah [SAW] among the delegation of Thaqif and I was with him in a tent. Everyone in the tent had gone to sleep except him and I. A man came and whispered to him, and he said: Go and kill him. Then he said: Does he not bear witness to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah? He said: He does bear witness to that. The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: Leave him alone. Then he said: I have been commanded to fight the people until they say La ilaha illallah. If they say it, then their blood and their wealth become forbidden to me, except for a right that is due. (One of the narrators) Muhammad said: I said to Shu'bah: 'Doesn't the Hadith contain: Does he not testify to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah?' He said: 'I think it is both, but I do not know.'"

The tribe of Thaqif, like the Meccans, were quite hostile to Muhammad. This is why a man said that Aws should be killed, but because Aws became a Muslim, Muhammad forbade the man to kill him. This shows that Muhammad did not say "Embrace Islam or die". He meant, "I will fight the disbelievers who are hostile to me unless they have a change of heart and become Muslims."

This adds up the Hadith I quoted from Jabir in Sahih Muslim 21 c that he did not say "Force the believers to become Muslims". He quoted form the Qu'ran that he is not a dictator over the people.

The reason Muhammad ceased from continuing on fighting former idolators is because in another Hadith, he says:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. And a Muhajir (emigrant) is the one who gives up (abandons) all what Allah has forbidden."

حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ بْنُ أَبِي إِيَاسٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي السَّفَرِ، وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ الْمُسْلِمُ مَنْ سَلِمَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ مِنْ لِسَانِهِ وَيَدِهِ، وَالْمُهَاجِرُ مَنْ هَجَرَ مَا نَهَى اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ وَقَالَ أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ حَدَّثَنَا دَاوُدُ عَنْ عَامِرٍ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ وَقَالَ عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى عَنْ دَاوُدَ عَنْ عَامِرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 10In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 3USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 10  (deprecated numbering scheme)

He further says:

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais:

While I was going to help this man ('Ali Ibn Abi Talib), Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I am going to help that person." He said, "Go back for I have heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, 'When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.' I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?' Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "He surely had the intention to kill his companion."

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَيُّوبُ، وَيُونُسُ، عَنِ الْحَسَنِ، عَنِ الأَحْنَفِ بْنِ قَيْسٍ، قَالَ ذَهَبْتُ لأَنْصُرَ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ، فَلَقِيَنِي أَبُو بَكْرَةَ فَقَالَ أَيْنَ تُرِيدُ قُلْتُ أَنْصُرُ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ‏.‏ قَالَ ارْجِعْ فَإِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِذَا الْتَقَى الْمُسْلِمَانِ بِسَيْفَيْهِمَا فَالْقَاتِلُ وَالْمَقْتُولُ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هَذَا الْقَاتِلُ فَمَا بَالُ الْمَقْتُولِ قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حَرِيصًا عَلَى قَتْلِ صَاحِبِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 31In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 24USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 31  (deprecated numbering scheme)


So therefore, the anti-Islamic and Salafist interpretation of Sahih Bukhari 25 is false and as I've demonstrated from Sahih Muslim 21 c and An-Nasa'i 3982, he said he will fight the hostile idolators until they change their minds.

The Hadith I will quote from Sunan Dawud also lends support to my above arguments:

Sulaiman bin Buraidah reported on the authority of his father. When the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) appointed a Commander over an Army or a detachment, he instructed him to fear Allaah himself and consider the welfare of the Muslims who were with him. He then said “When you meet the polytheists who are your enemy, summon them tone of three things and accept whichever of them they are willing to agree to, and refrain from them. Summon them to Islam and if they agree, accept it from them and refrain from them. Then summon them to leave their territory and transfer to the abode of the Emigrants and tell them that if they do so, they will have the same rights and responsibilities as the Emigrants, but if they refuse and choose their own abode, tell them that they will be like the desert Arabs who are Muslims subject to Allaah’s jurisdiction which applies to the believers, but will have no spoil or booty unless they strive with the Muslims. If they refuse demand jizyah (poll tax) from them, if they agree accept it from them and refrain from them. But if they refuse, seek Alaah’s help and fight with them. When you invade the fortress and they (its people) offer to capitulate and have the matter referred to Allaah’s jurisdiction, do not grant this, for you do not know whether or not you will hit on Allaah’s jurisdiction regarding them. But let them capitulate and have the matter refereed to your jurisdiction and make a decision about them later on as you wish.

Sufyan (bin ‘Uyainah) said thah ‘Alqamah said “I mentioned this tradition to Muqatil bin Habban, He said “Muslim narrated it to me.” Abu Dawud said “He is Ibn Haidam narrated from Al Nu’man in Muqqarin from the Prophet (ﷺ) like the tradition of Sulaiman bin Buraidah.


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ الأَنْبَارِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ بْنِ مَرْثَدٍ، عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا بَعَثَ أَمِيرًا عَلَى سَرِيَّةٍ أَوْ جَيْشٍ أَوْصَاهُ بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ فِي خَاصَّةِ نَفْسِهِ وَبِمَنْ مَعَهُ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ خَيْرًا وَقَالَ ‏ "‏ إِذَا لَقِيتَ عَدُوَّكَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِحْدَى ثَلاَثِ خِصَالٍ أَوْ خِلاَلٍ فَأَيَّتُهَا أَجَابُوكَ إِلَيْهَا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمُ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى الإِسْلاَمِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوكَ فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ ثُمَّ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى التَّحَوُّلِ مِنْ دَارِهِمْ إِلَى دَارِ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ إِنْ فَعَلُوا ذَلِكَ أَنَّ لَهُمْ مَا لِلْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ مَا عَلَى الْمُهَاجِرِينَ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا وَاخْتَارُوا دَارَهُمْ فَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ يَكُونُونَ كَأَعْرَابِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ يُجْرَى عَلَيْهِمْ حُكْمُ اللَّهِ الَّذِي يَجْرِي عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَكُونُ لَهُمْ فِي الْفَىْءِ وَالْغَنِيمَةِ نَصِيبٌ إِلاَّ أَنْ يُجَاهِدُوا مَعَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ فَإِنْ هُمْ أَبَوْا فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِعْطَاءِ الْجِزْيَةِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا فَاسْتَعِنْ بِاللَّهِ تَعَالَى وَقَاتِلْهُمْ وَإِذَا حَاصَرْتَ أَهْلَ حِصْنٍ فَأَرَادُوكَ أَنْ تُنْزِلَهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِ اللَّهِ تَعَالَى فَلاَ تُنْزِلْهُمْ فَإِنَّكُمْ لاَ تَدْرُونَ مَا يَحْكُمُ اللَّهُ فِيهِمْ وَلَكِنْ أَنْزِلُوهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِكُمْ ثُمَّ اقْضُوا فِيهِمْ بَعْدُ مَا شِئْتُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ سُفْيَانُ بْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ قَالَ عَلْقَمَةُ فَذَكَرْتُ هَذَا الْحَدِيثَ لِمُقَاتِلِ بْنِ حَيَّانَ فَقَالَ حَدَّثَنِي مُسْلِمٌ - قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ هُوَ ابْنُ هَيْصَمٍ - عَنِ النُّعْمَانِ بْنِ مُقَرِّنٍ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِثْلَ حَدِيثِ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ ‏.‏

Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)  صحيح   (الألباني)حكم     :

Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 2612In-book reference : Book 15, Hadith 136English translation : Book 14, Hadith 2606


Again, the idolators were never forced to give up their faith. If they didn't want to give up their faith, they payed Jizya and lived in peace with the Muslims. Just like the People of the Book.

السلام وعليكم

I honestly think we should fight against Atheism

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Does Sahih Bukhari 25 say to kill disbelievers until they embrace Islam?

A common Hadith that is raised by both opponents of Islam and Salafist is that Muhammad (saw) said:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

They say it means that all disbelievers should be fought against until they embrace Islam. However there are numerous historical inaccuracies in this interpretation of this Hadith. It also goes against al-Baqarah 2:256 where it says there's no comparison in religion.

I would argue that Sahih Bukhari Hadith doesn't say that Muslims need to force people to convert to Islam.

Hazrat Jabir (ra) gives a more detailed explanation in Sahih Muslim Hadith #21 c:

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said:

I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).

Another detailed Hadith from an-Nasa'i Hadith #3982 says:

It was narrated that An-Nu'man bin Salim said:

"I heard Aws say: 'I came to the Messenger of Allah [SAW] among the delegation of Thaqif and I was with him in a tent. Everyone in the tent had gone to sleep except him and I. A man came and whispered to him, and he said: Go and kill him. Then he said: Does he not bear witness to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah? He said: He does bear witness to that. The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: Leave him alone. Then he said: I have been commanded to fight the people until they say La ilaha illallah. If they say it, then their blood and their wealth become forbidden to me, except for a right that is due. (One of the narrators) Muhammad said: I said to Shu'bah: 'Doesn't the Hadith contain: Does he not testify to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah?' He said: 'I think it is both, but I do not know.'"

The tribe of Thaqif, like the Meccans, were quite hostile to Muhammad. This is why a man said that Aws should be killed, but because Aws became a Muslim, Muhammad forbade the man to kill him. This shows that Muhammad did not say "Embrace Islam or die". He meant, "I will fight the disbelievers who are hostile to me unless they have a change of heart and become Muslims."

This adds up the Hadith I quoted from Jabir in Sahih Muslim 21 c that he did not say "Force the believers to become Muslims". He quoted form the Qu'ran that he is not a dictator over the people.

The reason Muhammad ceased from continuing on fighting former idolators is because in another Hadith, he says:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. And a Muhajir (emigrant) is the one who gives up (abandons) all what Allah has forbidden."

حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ بْنُ أَبِي إِيَاسٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي السَّفَرِ، وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ الْمُسْلِمُ مَنْ سَلِمَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ مِنْ لِسَانِهِ وَيَدِهِ، وَالْمُهَاجِرُ مَنْ هَجَرَ مَا نَهَى اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ وَقَالَ أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ حَدَّثَنَا دَاوُدُ عَنْ عَامِرٍ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ وَقَالَ عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى عَنْ دَاوُدَ عَنْ عَامِرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 10In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 3USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 10  (deprecated numbering scheme)

He further says:

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais:

While I was going to help this man ('Ali Ibn Abi Talib), Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I am going to help that person." He said, "Go back for I have heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, 'When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.' I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?' Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "He surely had the intention to kill his companion."

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَيُّوبُ، وَيُونُسُ، عَنِ الْحَسَنِ، عَنِ الأَحْنَفِ بْنِ قَيْسٍ، قَالَ ذَهَبْتُ لأَنْصُرَ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ، فَلَقِيَنِي أَبُو بَكْرَةَ فَقَالَ أَيْنَ تُرِيدُ قُلْتُ أَنْصُرُ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ‏.‏ قَالَ ارْجِعْ فَإِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِذَا الْتَقَى الْمُسْلِمَانِ بِسَيْفَيْهِمَا فَالْقَاتِلُ وَالْمَقْتُولُ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هَذَا الْقَاتِلُ فَمَا بَالُ الْمَقْتُولِ قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حَرِيصًا عَلَى قَتْلِ صَاحِبِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 31In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 24USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 31  (deprecated numbering scheme)


So therefore, the anti-Islamic and Salafist interpretation of Sahih Bukhari 25 is false and as I've demonstrated from Sahih Muslim 21 c and An-Nasa'i 3982, he said he will fight the hostile idolators until they change their minds.

The Hadith I will quote from Sunan Dawud also lends support to my above arguments:

Sulaiman bin Buraidah reported on the authority of his father. When the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) appointed a Commander over an Army or a detachment, he instructed him to fear Allaah himself and consider the welfare of the Muslims who were with him. He then said “When you meet the polytheists who are your enemy, summon them tone of three things and accept whichever of them they are willing to agree to, and refrain from them. Summon them to Islam and if they agree, accept it from them and refrain from them. Then summon them to leave their territory and transfer to the abode of the Emigrants and tell them that if they do so, they will have the same rights and responsibilities as the Emigrants, but if they refuse and choose their own abode, tell them that they will be like the desert Arabs who are Muslims subject to Allaah’s jurisdiction which applies to the believers, but will have no spoil or booty unless they strive with the Muslims. If they refuse demand jizyah (poll tax) from them, if they agree accept it from them and refrain from them. But if they refuse, seek Alaah’s help and fight with them. When you invade the fortress and they (its people) offer to capitulate and have the matter referred to Allaah’s jurisdiction, do not grant this, for you do not know whether or not you will hit on Allaah’s jurisdiction regarding them. But let them capitulate and have the matter refereed to your jurisdiction and make a decision about them later on as you wish.

Sufyan (bin ‘Uyainah) said thah ‘Alqamah said “I mentioned this tradition to Muqatil bin Habban, He said “Muslim narrated it to me.” Abu Dawud said “He is Ibn Haidam narrated from Al Nu’man in Muqqarin from the Prophet (ﷺ) like the tradition of Sulaiman bin Buraidah.


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ الأَنْبَارِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ بْنِ مَرْثَدٍ، عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا بَعَثَ أَمِيرًا عَلَى سَرِيَّةٍ أَوْ جَيْشٍ أَوْصَاهُ بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ فِي خَاصَّةِ نَفْسِهِ وَبِمَنْ مَعَهُ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ خَيْرًا وَقَالَ ‏ "‏ إِذَا لَقِيتَ عَدُوَّكَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِحْدَى ثَلاَثِ خِصَالٍ أَوْ خِلاَلٍ فَأَيَّتُهَا أَجَابُوكَ إِلَيْهَا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمُ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى الإِسْلاَمِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوكَ فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ ثُمَّ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى التَّحَوُّلِ مِنْ دَارِهِمْ إِلَى دَارِ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ إِنْ فَعَلُوا ذَلِكَ أَنَّ لَهُمْ مَا لِلْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ مَا عَلَى الْمُهَاجِرِينَ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا وَاخْتَارُوا دَارَهُمْ فَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ يَكُونُونَ كَأَعْرَابِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ يُجْرَى عَلَيْهِمْ حُكْمُ اللَّهِ الَّذِي يَجْرِي عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَكُونُ لَهُمْ فِي الْفَىْءِ وَالْغَنِيمَةِ نَصِيبٌ إِلاَّ أَنْ يُجَاهِدُوا مَعَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ فَإِنْ هُمْ أَبَوْا فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِعْطَاءِ الْجِزْيَةِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا فَاسْتَعِنْ بِاللَّهِ تَعَالَى وَقَاتِلْهُمْ وَإِذَا حَاصَرْتَ أَهْلَ حِصْنٍ فَأَرَادُوكَ أَنْ تُنْزِلَهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِ اللَّهِ تَعَالَى فَلاَ تُنْزِلْهُمْ فَإِنَّكُمْ لاَ تَدْرُونَ مَا يَحْكُمُ اللَّهُ فِيهِمْ وَلَكِنْ أَنْزِلُوهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِكُمْ ثُمَّ اقْضُوا فِيهِمْ بَعْدُ مَا شِئْتُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ سُفْيَانُ بْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ قَالَ عَلْقَمَةُ فَذَكَرْتُ هَذَا الْحَدِيثَ لِمُقَاتِلِ بْنِ حَيَّانَ فَقَالَ حَدَّثَنِي مُسْلِمٌ - قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ هُوَ ابْنُ هَيْصَمٍ - عَنِ النُّعْمَانِ بْنِ مُقَرِّنٍ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِثْلَ حَدِيثِ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ ‏.‏

Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)  صحيح   (الألباني)حكم     :

Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 2612In-book reference : Book 15, Hadith 136English translation : Book 14, Hadith 2606


Again, the idolators were never forced to give up their faith. If they didn't want to give up their faith, they payed Jizya and lived in peace with the Muslims. Just like the People of the Book.

السلام وعليكم

I honestly think we should fight against Atheism

Well we do that a lot in this thread. Atheists are the main kaafiroon we fight against in this thread.

[Jolthig]

Does Sahih Bukhari 25 say to kill disbelievers until they embrace Islam?

A common Hadith that is raised by both opponents of Islam and Salafist is that Muhammad (saw) said:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

They say it means that all disbelievers should be fought against until they embrace Islam. However there are numerous historical inaccuracies in this interpretation of this Hadith. It also goes against al-Baqarah 2:256 where it says there's no comparison in religion.

I would argue that Sahih Bukhari Hadith doesn't say that Muslims need to force people to convert to Islam.

Hazrat Jabir (ra) gives a more detailed explanation in Sahih Muslim Hadith #21 c:

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said:

I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).

Another detailed Hadith from an-Nasa'i Hadith #3982 says:

It was narrated that An-Nu'man bin Salim said:

"I heard Aws say: 'I came to the Messenger of Allah [SAW] among the delegation of Thaqif and I was with him in a tent. Everyone in the tent had gone to sleep except him and I. A man came and whispered to him, and he said: Go and kill him. Then he said: Does he not bear witness to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah? He said: He does bear witness to that. The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: Leave him alone. Then he said: I have been commanded to fight the people until they say La ilaha illallah. If they say it, then their blood and their wealth become forbidden to me, except for a right that is due. (One of the narrators) Muhammad said: I said to Shu'bah: 'Doesn't the Hadith contain: Does he not testify to La ilaha illallah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah?' He said: 'I think it is both, but I do not know.'"

The tribe of Thaqif, like the Meccans, were quite hostile to Muhammad. This is why a man said that Aws should be killed, but because Aws became a Muslim, Muhammad forbade the man to kill him. This shows that Muhammad did not say "Embrace Islam or die". He meant, "I will fight the disbelievers who are hostile to me unless they have a change of heart and become Muslims."

This adds up the Hadith I quoted from Jabir in Sahih Muslim 21 c that he did not say "Force the believers to become Muslims". He quoted form the Qu'ran that he is not a dictator over the people.

The reason Muhammad ceased from continuing on fighting former idolators is because in another Hadith, he says:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. And a Muhajir (emigrant) is the one who gives up (abandons) all what Allah has forbidden."

حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ بْنُ أَبِي إِيَاسٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي السَّفَرِ، وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ الْمُسْلِمُ مَنْ سَلِمَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ مِنْ لِسَانِهِ وَيَدِهِ، وَالْمُهَاجِرُ مَنْ هَجَرَ مَا نَهَى اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ وَقَالَ أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ حَدَّثَنَا دَاوُدُ عَنْ عَامِرٍ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ وَقَالَ عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى عَنْ دَاوُدَ عَنْ عَامِرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 10In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 3USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 10  (deprecated numbering scheme)

He further says:

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais:

While I was going to help this man ('Ali Ibn Abi Talib), Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I am going to help that person." He said, "Go back for I have heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, 'When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.' I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?' Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "He surely had the intention to kill his companion."

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَيُّوبُ، وَيُونُسُ، عَنِ الْحَسَنِ، عَنِ الأَحْنَفِ بْنِ قَيْسٍ، قَالَ ذَهَبْتُ لأَنْصُرَ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ، فَلَقِيَنِي أَبُو بَكْرَةَ فَقَالَ أَيْنَ تُرِيدُ قُلْتُ أَنْصُرُ هَذَا الرَّجُلَ‏.‏ قَالَ ارْجِعْ فَإِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِذَا الْتَقَى الْمُسْلِمَانِ بِسَيْفَيْهِمَا فَالْقَاتِلُ وَالْمَقْتُولُ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هَذَا الْقَاتِلُ فَمَا بَالُ الْمَقْتُولِ قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حَرِيصًا عَلَى قَتْلِ صَاحِبِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 31In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 24USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 31  (deprecated numbering scheme)


So therefore, the anti-Islamic and Salafist interpretation of Sahih Bukhari 25 is false and as I've demonstrated from Sahih Muslim 21 c and An-Nasa'i 3982, he said he will fight the hostile idolators until they change their minds.

The Hadith I will quote from Sunan Dawud also lends support to my above arguments:

Sulaiman bin Buraidah reported on the authority of his father. When the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) appointed a Commander over an Army or a detachment, he instructed him to fear Allaah himself and consider the welfare of the Muslims who were with him. He then said “When you meet the polytheists who are your enemy, summon them tone of three things and accept whichever of them they are willing to agree to, and refrain from them. Summon them to Islam and if they agree, accept it from them and refrain from them. Then summon them to leave their territory and transfer to the abode of the Emigrants and tell them that if they do so, they will have the same rights and responsibilities as the Emigrants, but if they refuse and choose their own abode, tell them that they will be like the desert Arabs who are Muslims subject to Allaah’s jurisdiction which applies to the believers, but will have no spoil or booty unless they strive with the Muslims. If they refuse demand jizyah (poll tax) from them, if they agree accept it from them and refrain from them. But if they refuse, seek Alaah’s help and fight with them. When you invade the fortress and they (its people) offer to capitulate and have the matter referred to Allaah’s jurisdiction, do not grant this, for you do not know whether or not you will hit on Allaah’s jurisdiction regarding them. But let them capitulate and have the matter refereed to your jurisdiction and make a decision about them later on as you wish.

Sufyan (bin ‘Uyainah) said thah ‘Alqamah said “I mentioned this tradition to Muqatil bin Habban, He said “Muslim narrated it to me.” Abu Dawud said “He is Ibn Haidam narrated from Al Nu’man in Muqqarin from the Prophet (ﷺ) like the tradition of Sulaiman bin Buraidah.


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ الأَنْبَارِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ بْنِ مَرْثَدٍ، عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا بَعَثَ أَمِيرًا عَلَى سَرِيَّةٍ أَوْ جَيْشٍ أَوْصَاهُ بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ فِي خَاصَّةِ نَفْسِهِ وَبِمَنْ مَعَهُ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ خَيْرًا وَقَالَ ‏ "‏ إِذَا لَقِيتَ عَدُوَّكَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِحْدَى ثَلاَثِ خِصَالٍ أَوْ خِلاَلٍ فَأَيَّتُهَا أَجَابُوكَ إِلَيْهَا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمُ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى الإِسْلاَمِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوكَ فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ ثُمَّ ادْعُهُمْ إِلَى التَّحَوُّلِ مِنْ دَارِهِمْ إِلَى دَارِ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ إِنْ فَعَلُوا ذَلِكَ أَنَّ لَهُمْ مَا لِلْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَأَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ مَا عَلَى الْمُهَاجِرِينَ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا وَاخْتَارُوا دَارَهُمْ فَأَعْلِمْهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ يَكُونُونَ كَأَعْرَابِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ يُجْرَى عَلَيْهِمْ حُكْمُ اللَّهِ الَّذِي يَجْرِي عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَكُونُ لَهُمْ فِي الْفَىْءِ وَالْغَنِيمَةِ نَصِيبٌ إِلاَّ أَنْ يُجَاهِدُوا مَعَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ فَإِنْ هُمْ أَبَوْا فَادْعُهُمْ إِلَى إِعْطَاءِ الْجِزْيَةِ فَإِنْ أَجَابُوا فَاقْبَلْ مِنْهُمْ وَكُفَّ عَنْهُمْ فَإِنْ أَبَوْا فَاسْتَعِنْ بِاللَّهِ تَعَالَى وَقَاتِلْهُمْ وَإِذَا حَاصَرْتَ أَهْلَ حِصْنٍ فَأَرَادُوكَ أَنْ تُنْزِلَهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِ اللَّهِ تَعَالَى فَلاَ تُنْزِلْهُمْ فَإِنَّكُمْ لاَ تَدْرُونَ مَا يَحْكُمُ اللَّهُ فِيهِمْ وَلَكِنْ أَنْزِلُوهُمْ عَلَى حُكْمِكُمْ ثُمَّ اقْضُوا فِيهِمْ بَعْدُ مَا شِئْتُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ سُفْيَانُ بْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ قَالَ عَلْقَمَةُ فَذَكَرْتُ هَذَا الْحَدِيثَ لِمُقَاتِلِ بْنِ حَيَّانَ فَقَالَ حَدَّثَنِي مُسْلِمٌ - قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ هُوَ ابْنُ هَيْصَمٍ - عَنِ النُّعْمَانِ بْنِ مُقَرِّنٍ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِثْلَ حَدِيثِ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ ‏.‏

Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)  صحيح   (الألباني)حكم     :

Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 2612In-book reference : Book 15, Hadith 136English translation : Book 14, Hadith 2606


Again, the idolators were never forced to give up their faith. If they didn't want to give up their faith, they payed Jizya and lived in peace with the Muslims. Just like the People of the Book.

السلام وعليكم

I honestly think we should fight against Atheism

Walakium salaam.

Fight against atheism? Physically or do you mean like on here?

[The Alma Mater]

السلام وعليكم

I honestly think we should fight against Atheism

Walakium salaam.

Fight against atheism? Physically or do you mean like on here?

No doubt he means that muslims should show the world that they are better than atheists. That they bring more joy, more health, more beauty, more knowledge etc. to the world.

Of course, they currently are lagging a tiiiinnnyy bit behind there. But with some effort I am certain they can grow. Eventually.

[Frievolk]

Walakium salaam.

Fight against atheism? Physically or do you mean like on here?

No doubt he means that muslims should show the world that they are better than atheists. That they bring more joy, more health, more beauty, more knowledge etc. to the world.

Of course, they currently are lagging a tiiiinnnyy bit behind there. But with some effort I am certain they can grow. Eventually.

Knowing Larin, he probably means fighting as in physical.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

السلام وعليكم

I honestly think we should fight against Atheism

Or you could just, ya know, leave them be and let them do their own thing so long as they're not harming you. Just an idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[The Alma Mater]

No doubt he means that muslims should show the world that they are better than atheists. That they bring more joy, more health, more beauty, more knowledge etc. to the world.

Of course, they currently are lagging a tiiiinnnyy bit behind there. But with some effort I am certain they can grow. Eventually.

Knowing Larin, he probably means fighting as in physical.

I know. I just much prefer the Gulen way of conquest: work hard, learn hard, rise into positions of power, become indispensable and let the country become Islamic naturally.

Sadly, Erdogan and his cronies showed the weakness of that tactic: it takes several centuries, during which you are vulnerable.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

The Turkish currency is going down the tubes. It will be interesting to see how Erdogan deals with that.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The Turkish currency is going down the tubes. It will be interesting to see how Erdogan deals with that.

Insha-Allah all will be well.

[The Alma Mater]

The Turkish currency is going down the tubes. It will be interesting to see how Erdogan deals with that.

Deny there is any problem while at the same time blaming the Gulenists, the Jews, fascist Europe, dictator Trump and everyone but himself.
Same as always.

[Frievolk]

The Turkish currency is going down the tubes. It will be interesting to see how Erdogan deals with that.

Deny there is any problem while at the same time blaming the Gulenists, the Jews, fascist Europe, dictator Trump and everyone but himself.
Same as always.

You forgot the Kurds, the Persians, the Turkmen, and the Greeks

[Jolthig]

No doubt he means that muslims should show the world that they are better than atheists. That they bring more joy, more health, more beauty, more knowledge etc. to the world.

Of course, they currently are lagging a tiiiinnnyy bit behind there. But with some effort I am certain they can grow. Eventually.

Knowing Larin, he probably means fighting as in physical.

I would've said no to both physical fighting and fighting atheism on here anyway.

[Russiyskaya Respublica]

Walakium salaam.

Fight against atheism? Physically or do you mean like on here?

No doubt he means that muslims should show the world that they are better than atheists. That they bring more joy, more health, more beauty, more knowledge etc. to the world.

Of course, they currently are lagging a tiiiinnnyy bit behind there. But with some effort I am certain they can grow. Eventually.

I very much doubt that, since fighting atheists in many cases means fighting science and civil rights, like your glorious Sharia law, yay to patriarchy!

Knowing Larin, he probably means fighting as in physical.

I would've said no to both physical fighting and fighting atheism on here anyway.

Of course you would fight atheists physically, what better way to show right-wingers that Muslims indeed do enjoy violence, good job giving the right what they want!

[Auze]

Deny there is any problem while at the same time blaming the Gulenists, the Jews, fascist Europe, dictator Trump and everyone but himself.
Same as always.

You forgot the Kurds, the Persians, the Turkmen, and the Greeks

And if none of those work, he still has the Pontics, Armenians, and Assyrians to fall back on.