The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Frievolk]

Alright, I've read the Quran from back to back at least twice when I was a Muslim and another time when I was not. I'm pretty sure that Quran does not talk about Rajm at all, much less Rajm about the Gays. Do you have any source?

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)

There you are. Seems very easy to miss, although you’ve apparently read it front to back and payed great attention.

That's... not an order. It literally says "We rained down on them a shower of brimstone" in what you quoted. That's the story of Lut and that's a divine punishment, not a "Hokm"
Orders are "do this", nor "I did this". God is god, we don't have his authority, nor his abilities.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Red Party, stop. You're not speaking with knowledge on this subject.

See, that’s the issue with our religion. Whenever someone has an opinion contrary to Islam, those who support Islam adamantly will simply resort to the notion that those who they argue against are uneducated. With all due respect, that notion offends me. I was born into a Shia family, I observe the world around me. I don’t need a degree in “Islamic Interpatation” to make a point contrary to yours.

Actually you do. Laymen shouldn't be interpreting the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah like they're scholars. And yes, the 2 arguments you said in this thread (1: Ummah is uneducated and culturally backward; 2: Stoning homosexuals is part of Shari'ah) shows that you don't know a lot about these subjects.

[Red Party]

See, that’s the issue with our religion. Whenever someone has an opinion contrary to Islam, those who support Islam adamantly will simply resort to the notion that those who they argue against are uneducated. With all due respect, that notion offends me. I was born into a Shia family, I observe the world around me. I don’t need a degree in “Islamic Interpatation” to make a point contrary to yours.

Actually you do. Laymen shouldn't be interpreting the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah like they're scholars. And yes, the 2 arguments you said in this thread (1: Ummah is uneducated and culturally backward; 2: Stoning homosexuals is part of Shari'ah) shows that you don't know a lot about these subjects.

I don’t? Aren’t you the same person that argued you’d fuck over the country that supports you in the name of Islam?

[Jolthig]

1. The majority aren't always right (and i like how you have no accurate answer to my rebuttal and instead attack my sect; it proves you have no valid argument)
2. There is no evidence that there is fraud in Ahmadiyya
3. Ahmadiyya is the same Religion as revealed to prophet Muhammad (saw)

The whole sect is built on an idea that is simply blasemphous in Islam. You’re not a Muslim if you believe that there was a prophet after the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. It’s clear cut and simple. You’re part of a tiny group of individuals that believes it is correct, please don’t argue on behalf of Islam.

It's not blasphemous to Islam. And I am a Muslim because I believe Muhammad (saw) to be the Khatam Nabiyyan. Even Mirza Ghulam Ahmad argued this several times in his books. A great example is Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya pts I and II.

Prophethood in Ahmadiyya is defined by complete obedience to Muhammad (saw). All prophethood outside of Muhammadan Prophethood is closed, but now prophethood is bestowed on those who completely immense themselves in the love for Allah and his Messenger (saw). Thus, Allah gives them the titles of Rasullah and Nabi.

And that is a terrible argument. My community is a very fast growing Community. According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the fastest growing sect in Islam:

[n 3] The Ahmadiyya Movement has been the fastest growing sect according to the World Christian Encyclopedia for a number of decades. For this, see earlier editions. The 2001 edition places the growth rate at 3.25%, which is the highest of all Islamic sects and schools of thought. See:
David B. Barrett; George Thomas Kurian; Todd M. Johnson, eds. (February 15, 2001). World Christian Encyclopedia. Oxford University Press USA. ISBN 0195079639.

Especially among the people of Africa. Don't believe me? Go look it up right now. The Gambia (although no data according to Wikipedia, yet has many Ahmadis) is a really good example. If you want countries with data, there is Nigeria and Tanzania.

I won't stop arguing on behalf on Islam until the day I die because my community requires me to preach to people. As a matter fact, we are putting up billboards all over the United States to let people know our message. If you don't like it, that's too bad. You won't be able to stop us.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Actually you do. Laymen shouldn't be interpreting the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah like they're scholars. And yes, the 2 arguments you said in this thread (1: Ummah is uneducated and culturally backward; 2: Stoning homosexuals is part of Shari'ah) shows that you don't know a lot about these subjects.

I don’t? Aren’t you the same person that argued you’d screw over the country that supports you in the name of Islam?

What are you talking about?

[Geneviev]

Jolthig, do you mind if I quote some of the things you wrote in this thread?

[Jolthig]

Jolthig, do you mind if I quote some of the things you wrote in this thread?

Go ahead

[Geneviev]

Jolthig, do you mind if I quote some of the things you wrote in this thread?

Go ahead

Cool. Thank you.

[Kowani]

See, that’s the issue with our religion. Whenever someone has an opinion contrary to Islam, those who support Islam adamantly will simply resort to the notion that those who they argue against are uneducated. With all due respect, that notion offends me. I was born into a Shia family, I observe the world around me. I don’t need a degree in “Islamic Interpatation” to make a point contrary to yours.

Actually you do. Laymen shouldn't be interpreting the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah like they're scholars. And yes, the 2 arguments you said in this thread (1: Ummah is uneducated and culturally backward; 2: Stoning homosexuals is part of Shari'ah) shows that you don't know a lot about these subjects.

Kubumba, restricting interpretation of the Qur’an to only a few people is a recipe for disaster. Although this isn’t the Christianity Thread, I feel prudent that that sort of thinking is what led to the Inquisition. Allowing anyone to interpret the books how they want and preventing the more fringe, and violent elements from gaining traction not through violence, but speech is much better.

Also, I assume that Ummah refers to the Muslim Community? Like every culture, there are good and bad parts. The Apostasy thing we discussed earlier is a good example of some of the “backwardness” of certain parts of Islamic Culture.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Actually you do. Laymen shouldn't be interpreting the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah like they're scholars. And yes, the 2 arguments you said in this thread (1: Ummah is uneducated and culturally backward; 2: Stoning homosexuals is part of Shari'ah) shows that you don't know a lot about these subjects.

Kubumba, restricting interpretation of the Qur’an to only a few people is a recipe for disaster. Although this isn’t the Christianity Thread, I feel prudent that that sort of thinking is what led to the Inquisition. Allowing anyone to interpret the books how they want and preventing the more fringe, and violent elements from gaining traction not through violence, but speech is much better.

That's not how Al-Islam works. People who don't know the details, the ins and outs, the looks and crannies of Al-Islam are not fit to judge it. People who have dedicated themselves to studying the religion are better fit.
https://legacy.quran.com/4/59, https://legacy.quran.com/33/36, https://legacy.quran.com/40/35, https://legacy.quran.com/40/56

Also, I assume that Ummah refers to the Muslim Community? Like every culture, there are good and bad parts. The Apostasy thing we discussed earlier is a good example of some of the “backwardness” of certain parts of Islamic Culture.

Apostasy does not have a worldly penalty in Al-Islam, so idk what you mean by this.

[Frievolk]

Kubumba, restricting interpretation of the Qur’an to only a few people is a recipe for disaster. Although this isn’t the Christianity Thread, I feel prudent that that sort of thinking is what led to the Inquisition. Allowing anyone to interpret the books how they want and preventing the more fringe, and violent elements from gaining traction not through violence, but speech is much better.

That's not how Al-Islam works. People who don't know the details, the ins and outs, the looks and crannies of Al-Islam are not fit to judge it. People who have dedicated themselves to studying the religion are better fit.

Also, I assume that Ummah refers to the Muslim Community? Like every culture, there are good and bad parts. The Apostasy thing we discussed earlier is a good example of some of the “backwardness” of certain parts of Islamic Culture.

Apostasy does not have a worldly penalty in Al-Islam, so idk what you mean by this.

1- That's bullshit and you know it. The system Islam follows where the Ulema know the ins-and-outs of the religion while others do not is no longer a feasible system, because that system only existed due to a low literacy rate and there being a very noticeable scarcity in the religious texts. At this point, any person can, and should, have their own personal opinions about their religion, and the doctrine of Taqlid should be abandoned.

2- Yeah, no. Irtedad's punishment has always been punished in Islam, sometimes execution, as according Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17, Sahih Muslim, 16:4152, and Sahih Muslim, 16:4154, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260, etc.
OF course, then again, there are also multiple hadith reducing that sentence to "life in prison" or "Exile" as well. But there is always been a punishment lmao.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

There is no verse that prescribes a punishment for stoning gays with limestone.

You may be referring to the punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah where Lot fails to get the city to worship Allah and after he and his family leave, his wife, and the people of the cities we're punished with stones from the sky.

These are directly divine punishment and not a prescribed punishment to the Muslims. There is no stoning for gays.

There are some hadith considered Sahih by Sunnis that say both Muslim and non Muslim gays should be stoned to death, but my Community rejects these Hadith as it goes against the Qu'ran of no compulsion in religion.

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)

My mistake, it’s brimestone.

My dude. Come on. It's pitiful at this point. That is from the story of Lot when God rained fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. As it says there, "we" did it. The Quran is told from the perspective of God and his angels. The "we" there is them. Brimstone isn't even something you can really throw at someone to kill them. It's sulfur, dude. Fire and brimstone is just another way of saying like "hellfire".

[Sahansahiye Iran]

1. The majority aren't always right (and i like how you have no accurate answer to my rebuttal and instead attack my sect; it proves you have no valid argument)
2. There is no evidence that there is fraud in Ahmadiyya
3. Ahmadiyya is the same Religion as revealed to prophet Muhammad (saw)

The whole sect is built on an idea that is simply blasemphous in Islam. You’re not a Muslim if you believe that there was a prophet after the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. It’s clear cut and simple. You’re part of a tiny group of individuals that believes it is correct, please don’t argue on behalf of Islam.

Lol did you just try to takfir Jolthig? I laugh.

[Kowani]

Kubumba, restricting interpretation of the Qur’an to only a few people is a recipe for disaster. Although this isn’t the Christianity Thread, I feel prudent that that sort of thinking is what led to the Inquisition. Allowing anyone to interpret the books how they want and preventing the more fringe, and violent elements from gaining traction not through violence, but speech is much better.

That's not how Al-Islam works. People who don't know the details, the ins and outs, the looks and crannies of Al-Islam are not fit to judge it. People who have dedicated themselves to studying the religion are better fit.
https://legacy.quran.com/4/59, https://legacy.quran.com/33/36, https://legacy.quran.com/40/35, https://legacy.quran.com/40/56

Also, I assume that Ummah refers to the Muslim Community? Like every culture, there are good and bad parts. The Apostasy thing we discussed earlier is a good example of some of the “backwardness” of certain parts of Islamic Culture.

Apostasy does not have a worldly penalty in Al-Islam, so idk what you mean by this.

Those who have studied it should be able to give a much more nuanced judgement, true. However, the idea that not having been a scholar invalidates an opinion on a religion is both elitist and useless. If the common people cannot see and judge, then Muslims would be nothing more than sheep. And as we saw with The Catholic Church, this sort of thing lead to the selling of indulgences, the Protestant Revolution...And war.

[Jolthig]

The whole sect is built on an idea that is simply blasemphous in Islam. You’re not a Muslim if you believe that there was a prophet after the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. It’s clear cut and simple. You’re part of a tiny group of individuals that believes it is correct, please don’t argue on behalf of Islam.

Lol did you just try to takfir Jolthig? I laugh.

He did. Hahahaha.

I'm still waiting for him to refute my last response.

[Beylik of Tunis]

That's not how Al-Islam works. People who don't know the details, the ins and outs, the looks and crannies of Al-Islam are not fit to judge it. People who have dedicated themselves to studying the religion are better fit.
https://legacy.quran.com/4/59, https://legacy.quran.com/33/36, https://legacy.quran.com/40/35, https://legacy.quran.com/40/56

Apostasy does not have a worldly penalty in Al-Islam, so idk what you mean by this.

Those who have studied it should be able to give a much more nuanced judgement, true. However, the idea that not having been a scholar invalidates an opinion on a religion is both elitist and useless. If the common people cannot see and judge, then Muslims would be nothing more than sheep. And as we saw with The Catholic Church, this sort of thing lead to the selling of indulgences, the Protestant Revolution...And war.

I think that’s a very reductive perspective. What your doing here is reading a historical object through a foreign lens without being sensitive to that object’s own internal paradigms and histories. You’ve assumed that Muslim scholars existed in a hierarchy as a group of people separate and above the ordinary masses, you’ve assumed that, as a group, they roughly equate to a Christian church, you’ve assumed that the kind of Protestant reformation you’ve called for isn’t already happening and your assuming that humanity follows a universal trajectory of development or progress towards what I can only imagine is some sort of Fukuyama-esque ‘end of history’.

[Red Party]

[quote="Jolthig";p="34447182][/quote]
snip[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Here’s what you fail to realize: on Judgement Day, when you stand before God, he won’t give a shit about the quantity of your “sect”. Mirza has made several false predictions, including the the Jews would never have a state, which is obviously countered today with Israel. Furthermore, Mirza challenged himself.

“J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)

Can you explain to the group why that isn’t in any Ahmadiyya literature? No? I’ll do it for you.
The entire “sect” proves itself to be false, as Mirza himself died before Mr. Piggot.

http://wiki.qern.org/mirza-ghulam-ahmad ... o-divinity

[Jolthig]

Here’s what you fail to realize: on Judgement Day, when you stand before God, he won’t give a shit about the quantity of your “sect”. Mirza has made several false predictions, including the the Jews would never have a state, which is obviously countered today with Israel. Furthermore, Mirza challenged himself.

On the Day of Resurrection, God will bear witness between you and I which one of us is the liar. Inshallah. Agreed?

I would like a source for your claim on the Jews. And oh boy, we're gonna have a war of words for the next few days on here. I know what you're gonna do: like what you're doing below, you're gonna cherry pick from several anti Ahmadi websites to prove that you're somehow an expert on the prophecies of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Well let me tell you something: you are not an expert on these things. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad literally wrote 90 books that we both still have lots to read.

“J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)

Can you explain to the group why that isn’t in any Ahmadiyya literature? No? I’ll do it for you.
The entire “sect” proves itself to be false, as Mirza himself died before Mr. Piggot.

http://wiki.qern.org/mirza-ghulam-ahmad ... o-divinity

To assume that Ahmadiyya is false just because of this claim of yours is in itself fallcious and dishonest. Quit assuming my position. And prove that this isn't in Ahmadiyya literature. I have some of the references of the argument between Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and Piggott right here in my lap.

November 20, 1902

Upon prayer with concentration concerning Piggott, the Promised Messiah (as) saw in a dream some books on which it was written three times: Tasbih, Tasbih, Tasbih and then received the revelation:

[Arabic] Allah is severe in retribution. They are not acting righteously.

This revelation indicates that the present condition of Piggott is not good or that he would not repent in future. It can also mean that he would not believe in God and planning against Him, is not good. The part: [Allah is severe in retribution] shows that his end will be doomed and he will be afflicted with God's chastisement. Indeed, it is a very caring thing to claim to be God.

al-Badr, vol. 1, no. 4, November 21, 1902, p. 25 and al-Badr, vol. 1 nos. 5 and 6, November 28 and December 5, 1902 p. 42 and al-Hakam, vol. 6, no. 42, November 24, 1902, p. 6

And here's a footnote by Jalal-ud-Din Shams on the above reference:

Piggott was a Christian priest of London who had claimed to be the Promised Messiah. A few people joined him. A typed announcement from him was received by Mufti Muhammad Sadiq, which he presented before the Promised Messiahas. Thereupon the Promised Messiahas gave a very short announcement of one page to Maulavi Muhammad ‘Ali to translate it, and get it printed and sent to England. In that announcement the Promised Messiahas said: My secretary has received the announcement containing your claim. You are false in making this claim. If you have the power, come and compete with me. God has informed me that I am the Promised Messiah and Islam is the true faith. When he received this announcement, he made no response. The announcement was published by newspapers in England, and cuttings from them were received in Qadian. In those days he [Piggott] was cohabiting with a woman, for which he received adverse publicity in the newspapers. After receiving the announcement of the Promised Messiahas he remained quiet and made no further claims, nor established any community. He died in this condition.

To support the above footnate, the small letter that is cited by my opponent says that Piggott's death is to be brought about by prayer, meaning a prayer Duel.

Besides, maybe you didn't hear this, but prophecies are conditional . They'll be fulfilled one way or another. Or they could be cancelled or delayed (such as the case of Abdullah Atham). Therefore, the reason Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said he would die in his lifetime was because he was actually challenging Piggott to a prayer duel as I've shown in the footnote and in the letter you cited. Had he accepted, he would've died in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's lifetime.

[Kowani]

Those who have studied it should be able to give a much more nuanced judgement, true. However, the idea that not having been a scholar invalidates an opinion on a religion is both elitist and useless. If the common people cannot see and judge, then Muslims would be nothing more than sheep. And as we saw with The Catholic Church, this sort of thing lead to the selling of indulgences, the Protestant Revolution...And war.

I think that’s a very reductive perspective. What your doing here is reading a historical object through a foreign lens without being sensitive to that object’s own internal paradigms and histories. You’ve assumed that Muslim scholars existed in a hierarchy as a group of people separate and above the ordinary masses, you’ve assumed that, as a group, they roughly equate to a Christian church, you’ve assumed that the kind of Protestant reformation you’ve called for isn’t already happening and your assuming that humanity follows a universal trajectory of development or progress towards what I can only imagine is some sort of Fukuyama-esque ‘end of history’.

I may be assuming things, but here are some counter arguments.
1) While not every theologian lives detached from the masses, at least on the topic of religion, if the common person is unable to interpret their holy book because of a written rule, you have therefore separated them from the people they are supposed to represent.

I doubt that Islam and the Catholic Church work along the same mindset. However, if you tell enough people: These are the beliefs to live by, here’s how to interpret the book that gives you those values, and here are some people who can change how to interpret that book, eventually, someone will get pissed off.

As for the “End of History”, well that’ll happen when humanity dies out.

[Kubumba Tribe]

That's not how Al-Islam works. People who don't know the details, the ins and outs, the looks and crannies of Al-Islam are not fit to judge it. People who have dedicated themselves to studying the religion are better fit.
https://legacy.quran.com/4/59, https://legacy.quran.com/33/36, https://legacy.quran.com/40/35, https://legacy.quran.com/40/56

Apostasy does not have a worldly penalty in Al-Islam, so idk what you mean by this.

Those who have studied it should be able to give a much more nuanced judgement, true. However, the idea that not having been a scholar invalidates an opinion on a religion is both elitist and useless.

I didn't mean it like that. Yeah, some things in Al-Islam aren't rocket-science, they're easy to understand. But more complex stuff should be left to the scholars.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

[quote="Jolthig";p="34447182][/quote]
snip[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Here’s what you fail to realize: on Judgement Day, when you stand before God, he won’t give a shit about the quantity of your “sect”. Mirza has made several false predictions, including the the Jews would never have a state, which is obviously countered today with Israel. Furthermore, Mirza challenged himself.

“J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)

Can you explain to the group why that isn’t in any Ahmadiyya literature? No? I’ll do it for you.
The entire “sect” proves itself to be false, as Mirza himself died before Mr. Piggot.

http://wiki.qern.org/mirza-ghulam-ahmad ... o-divinity[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Every argument you have put forward so far has fallen through the floor so now you are trying to target Jolthig personally in an attempt to discredit his arguments and say he can't "argue for Islam" or however you put it? Pathetic.

Edit: I'm not even going to bother to fix the formatting that you fucked up so badly in your post.

[Jolthig]

[quote="Jolthig";p="34447182][/quote]
snip[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Here’s what you fail to realize: on Judgement Day, when you stand before God, he won’t give a shit about the quantity of your “sect”. Mirza has made several false predictions, including the the Jews would never have a state, which is obviously countered today with Israel. Furthermore, Mirza challenged himself.

“J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)

Can you explain to the group why that isn’t in any Ahmadiyya literature? No? I’ll do it for you.
The entire “sect” proves itself to be false, as Mirza himself died before Mr. Piggot.

http://wiki.qern.org/mirza-ghulam-ahmad ... o-divinity[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
Every argument you have put forward so far has fallen through the floor so now you are trying to target Jolthig personally in an attempt to discredit his arguments and say he can't "argue for Islam" or however you put it? Pathetic.

Edit: I'm not even going to bother to fix the formatting that you fucked up so badly in your post.[/quote]

Ive dealt with these people so much I know their intentions: Their only goal is convert people to their faith or ideology with whatever means. It doesn't matter to them if they have to confuse their opponent in order to do so. They will use whatever means.

Unfortunately for him, I've dealt with these people so much I can easily call out their bogus and dishonest attempts.

They're not interested in hearing about what my community has to say; only to confuse Ahmadis into joining their communities.

[Kubumba Tribe]

But the state of Muslims is the effect of state of Islam. Without central authority every Imam can say what he wants and even say that it is written in Quoran. That is a thing which allows some so-called Imams advocate for terrorism. Of course an educated person can always read the Quoran and say that "Imam" is lying. But there are always some uneducated people who will start killing unbelievers...

In fairness what we know from the earliest annals of Islamic warfare, even among Muhammad and the five early caliphs, does not exactly set a glowing precedence for humanitarian standards in warfare.

https://sunnah.com/adab/24/10:

"Allah has revealed to me that you should be humble so that none of you will oppress anyone else"

https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/3
http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/unders ... ml?start=9

[Kowani]

In fairness what we know from the earliest annals of Islamic warfare, even among Muhammad and the five early caliphs, does not exactly set a glowing precedence for humanitarian standards in warfare.

https://sunnah.com/adab/24/10:

"Allah has revealed to me that you should be humble so that none of you will oppress anyone else"

https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/3
http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/unders ... ml?start=9

Man, you can talk all you want about what Muhammad said, but the truth is that, as was characteristic of the time, Islam’s spread was done through quite a lot of violence, and this being the 7th century, warfare was not anywhere close to what we would consider decent. I mean, look at what happened to Asma bint Marwan and Abu 'Afak. Insult Muslims? Welp, have a nice death!

Or the fate of the Banu Qurayza. Convert or die. At least for the men, women and children were enslaved. (And all of this without mentioning his wife, Aisha. His conquests May have been characteristic of the time and place, but defending child marriage and sex? Culture is good and all, but that’s still wrong.)

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://sunnah.com/adab/24/10:

"Allah has revealed to me that you should be humble so that none of you will oppress anyone else"

https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/3
http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/unders ... ml?start=9

Man, you can talk all you want about what Muhammad said, but the truth is that, as was characteristic of the time, Islam’s spread was done through quite a lot of violence, and this being the 7th century, warfare was not anywhere close to what we would consider decent. I mean, look at what happened to Asma bint Marwan and Abu 'Afak. Insult Muslims? Welp, have a nice death!

Both of them advocated for the death of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), and Abu 'Afak (LA) actually fought against him. So it wasn't just "insult Muslims", it was "kill the Prophet". Also, the stories are a weak narration anyway.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asma_bint_Marwan
https://islamqa.info/en/177694
https://www.google.com/amp/s/discover-t ... art-1/amp/

Or the fate of the Banu Qurayza. Convert or die. At least for the men, women and children were enslaved.

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2012/07/ ... ntroversy/

(And all of this without mentioning his wife, Aisha. His conquests May have been characteristic of the time and place, but defending child marriage and sex? Culture is good and all, but that’s still wrong.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lOhyhxOKI4E&t=192s
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1GMwR1gmZ6M&t=12s
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LZHTEv1BI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q126oUJF6vw&t=114s