The Benefit of Slavery

[Chipolt Of Le IX]

You know what else there is a shortage of? Prison security. Let's just make the prisoners do that too!!!

Jokes aside, some sort of labor seems better than nothing, right? Maybe not plantations...

[Kramanica]

If your views end up changing to "slavery is good", well...

Whatever cheeses off the liberals.

Why do you feel so victimized?

[Auze]

So fundamentalist of a zealot that you don't even like the Constitution because it's too modern. :^)

Oldest surviving Constitution in the world tho

Actually, wouldn't that be the Constitution of San Marino?

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

Cheap labour that the incarcerated are required to do is already in wide use in many USA states. Work release pays inmates below minimum wage, and they do not earn much more over time than how much they would be sold for if slavery were legal. The amendments are much more flexible for inmates than the general population. Cruel and unusual punishment is considered unconstitutional, but dissidents were regularly coated in hot tar and feathers during the same time as the founders wrote against cruel and unusual punishments, and I would not be surprised if any or most of the founders supported that. The opinions made law those who have been dead for two centuries are not exactly the best arguments for why something should not be done.

One century, at-most. The Civil War was pretty much what decided the legality of slavery (technically the secession of states, but there was no more questioning on the matter of slavery as a result of the conflict).

Even then, Delaware didn't even ratify the 13th Amendment until 1901. Now, I'm pretty sure no Founding Fathers were alive in 1901, so...

I was referring to the eighth amendment found in the bill of rights and the practice of tarring and feathering. Both had support, likely including who wrote the eighth amendment.

[The Parkus Empire]

Parkus why do you want to travel back the late 1800s? First you want to bring back poll taxes and now you literally want to resurrect slavery.

Normally I don't call people racist during debates... but you arent making it easy.

And I'm pretty sure I've heard you before calling the modern right immoral. Yet your morality apparently justifies poll taxes and slavery.

I consider the modern right immoral because they do not believe in duty. Certainly shilling for the upper crust is and has always been part of the right, perhaps the defining principle of "right wing". But a stronger controlling interest and power by the top dogs means they must accept a much greater responsibility, obligation and duty. Disraeli vividly grasped that, but the current right for some time now has been in a quest to tear down any responsibility or obligation on the part of the ruling class, going so far as to say rather society and the environment must pay for all the ruling class's harm, while the ruling class can be a deadbeat dad. This is a recipe for outrage and disaster, and Joseph de Maistre rightfully observed that the French Revolution was divine wrath for the ruling class's narcissistic rejection of duty

[Orostan]

Sometimes true, sometimes not. For example, someone plotting to murder you tomorrow is a problem today.

Thinking that slavery is a good idea is not a problem today, though, and that's the idea we're talking about.

Yes it is. Ignorance is a problem.

[The Parkus Empire]

Are you serious? You’re talking about selling human beings.... how would you like to be sold?

As a criminal he would obviously welcome being sold, knowing that every lash of his master's whip was bringing him closer to being properly civilised.

It's not legal to whip people anymore. Back when whipping slaves was legal, whipping criminals was also legal in many states and public whipping was used as punishment

[Kramanica]

Parkus why do you want to travel back the late 1800s? First you want to bring back poll taxes and now you literally want to resurrect slavery.

Normally I don't call people racist during debates... but you arent making it easy.

And I'm pretty sure I've heard you before calling the modern right immoral. Yet your morality apparently justifies poll taxes and slavery.

I consider the modern right immoral because they do not believe in duty. Certainly shilling for the upper crust is and has always been part of the right, perhaps the defining principle of "right wing". But a stronger controlling interest and power by the top dogs means they must accept a much greater responsibility, obligation and duty. Disraeli vividly grasped that, but the current right for some time now has been in a quest to tear down any responsibility or obligation on the part of the ruling class, going so far as to say rather society and the environment must pay for all the ruling class's harm, while the ruling class can be a deadbeat dad. This is a recipe for outrage and disaster, and Joseph de Maistre rightfully observed that the French Revolution was divine wrath for the ruling class's narcissistic rejection of duty

And I consider you immoral for the aforementioned reasons.

How do you think slavery in the prison system will end?

[The Parkus Empire]

I consider the modern right immoral because they do not believe in duty. Certainly shilling for the upper crust is and has always been part of the right, perhaps the defining principle of "right wing". But a stronger controlling interest and power by the top dogs means they must accept a much greater responsibility, obligation and duty. Disraeli vividly grasped that, but the current right for some time now has been in a quest to tear down any responsibility or obligation on the part of the ruling class, going so far as to say rather society and the environment must pay for all the ruling class's harm, while the ruling class can be a deadbeat dad. This is a recipe for outrage and disaster, and Joseph de Maistre rightfully observed that the French Revolution was divine wrath for the ruling class's narcissistic rejection of duty

And I consider you immoral for the aforementioned reasons.

How do you think slavery in the prison system will end?

Why should it? I would consider it a great service to the poor if everyone caught trafficking over a pound of meth or heroin were enslaved. This is primarily because I don't like the death penalty, which takes away someone's ability to repent

[Kramanica]

And I consider you immoral for the aforementioned reasons.

How do you think slavery in the prison system will end?

Why should it? I would consider it a great service to the poor if everyone caught trafficking over a pound of meth or heroin were enslaved. This is primarily because I don't like the death penalty, which takes away someone's ability to repent

Because using people for slave labor is immoral. This was established centuries ago.

You're obviously result oriented. Do you not think that there would be resentment not just among the inmate population but also among the general population over the establishment of what are effectively forced labor camps that one would expect to find in North Korea?

[Ceolophysia]

And I consider you immoral for the aforementioned reasons.

How do you think slavery in the prison system will end?

Why should it? I would consider it a great service to the poor if everyone caught trafficking over a pound of meth or heroin were enslaved. This is primarily because I don't like the death penalty, which takes away someone's ability to repent

Drug trafficking? This severe of a punishment should not be for a crime like that. Maybe for robbery, but being enslaved for drug trafficking is more than just a little bit much.

[The South Falls]

This already happens. Anyway, the amount of Lifers (162,000) is a viable pool of labor. We already enslave prisoners. The definition is:S lavery is any system in which principles of property law are applied to people, allowing individuals to own, buy and sell other individuals, as a de jure form of property.[1] A slave is unable to withdraw unilaterally from such an arrangement and works without remuneration. This is the part of slavery that prisons have, and while they don't buy and sell humans, which I'm against, the prisons already own them, in that they have them confined, and can do what they want with them. Therefore, we already have slavery in prisons.

[The Parkus Empire]

Why should it? I would consider it a great service to the poor if everyone caught trafficking over a pound of meth or heroin were enslaved. This is primarily because I don't like the death penalty, which takes away someone's ability to repent

Because using people for slave labor isimmoral. This was established centuries ago.

You're obviously result oriented. Do you not think that there would be resentment not just among the inmate population but also among the general population over the establishment of what are effectively forced labor camps that one would expect to find in North Korea?

Enslaving innocent people is immoral. So is killing or imprisoning innocent people

I don't think you can compare it to NK as torture whipping or killing the laborers is prohibited, and they must be fed a nutritional diet and kept on a humane work regimen.

[The Parkus Empire]

Why should it? I would consider it a great service to the poor if everyone caught trafficking over a pound of meth or heroin were enslaved. This is primarily because I don't like the death penalty, which takes away someone's ability to repent

Drug trafficking? This severe of a punishment should not be for a crime like that. Maybe for robbery, but being enslaved for drug trafficking is more than just a little bit much.

Heh, drug traffickers cause a lot of robbery and know it. Druggies rob to pay for drugs

[Kramanica]

Because using people for slave labor isimmoral. This was established centuries ago.

You're obviously result oriented. Do you not think that there would be resentment not just among the inmate population but also among the general population over the establishment of what are effectively forced labor camps that one would expect to find in North Korea?

Enslaving innocent people is immoral. So is killing or imprisoning innocent people

No, enslavement of anybody is immoral.

I don't think you can compare it to NK as torture whipping or killing the laborers is prohibited, and they must be fed a nutritional diet and kept on a humane work regimen.

We already have plenty of abuses in our prison system already. Do you not think there would also be abuses under the system you advocate for? Effectively owning someone is a pretty easy way for abuses to occur.

[Syrixia]

I love how this is an obvious troll and you're all feeding it.

[Auze]

I love how this is an obvious troll and you're all feeding it.

Parkus is the living embodiment of Poe's law. He is likely very serious.

[Fartsniffage]

Drug trafficking? This severe of a punishment should not be for a crime like that. Maybe for robbery, but being enslaved for drug trafficking is more than just a little bit much.

Heh, drug traffickers cause a lot of robbery and know it. Druggies rob to pay for drugs

You were a druggy, did you rob?

[USS Monitor]

I love how this is an obvious troll and you're all feeding it.

If you think someone is trolling, report it. Don't just post to call them a troll.

[Ceolophysia]

Drug trafficking? This severe of a punishment should not be for a crime like that. Maybe for robbery, but being enslaved for drug trafficking is more than just a little bit much.

Heh, drug traffickers cause a lot of robbery and know it. Druggies rob to pay for drugs

I guess so, but they should be punished this severely only for the robbery, not for the trafficking. Maybe the two crimes combined.

[Crockerland]

Repeatedly I have heard that we have a labor shortage on our plantations here in the United States, and that we therefore need to important more immigrants. But I have an alternative, which is slavery. Specifically the enslaving of convicts. For those sentenced to life in prison or death, this is very straightforward: simply sell them to plantations. This saves a lot of money right there, in fact sale should recoup a lot of the court cost. Now as for those doing shorter terms, I propose a period of indentured servitude instead. Contracts for indentured convicts also would save or even make a lot of money. Also I am a strong believer in hard work's power to reform. Much better than shooting up drugs in a cell.

So, what do you say, NSG? Sounds good? It's 100% Constitutional.

It may be constitutional, just like replacing all of our navy ships with RC helicopters would be constitutional, that doesn't make it any less of an outlandish, objectively terrible, and dangerous idea.

Any understanding of how prisons and farms work should immediately turn you off from this plan, they are fortresses that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build and maintain, maybe billions, and even still prisoner escapes are fairly regular; A prisoner-worked plantation would have to essentially afford all the amenities of a prison, specifically a maximum security prison if manned by prisoners for life or especially death row inmates, but have said amenities be spread out over a much larger area.

The only way for a farm to make money off of this scheme would be for them to forgo all of the vital defense measures in place, making this an even more dangerous and terrible concept. Even if you somehow made it feasible, affordable, and safe (impossible), you would then be depriving farmhands of their jobs across the country, which would lead to more unemployment, homelessness, and crime, something we have quite enough of already.

[The Parkus Empire]

Heh, drug traffickers cause a lot of robbery and know it. Druggies rob to pay for drugs

You were a druggy, did you rob?

Heh, I robbed, actually, but I wasn't a druggy on the outs. I only did meth during my incarceration. But all the robbers I knew in prison did it for drug money except for those who were professional robbers (people who make about $20,000 a robbery, often by working with a fence).

[The Parkus Empire]

Heh, drug traffickers cause a lot of robbery and know it. Druggies rob to pay for drugs

I guess so, but they should be punished this severely only for the robbery, not for the trafficking. Maybe the two crimes combined.

You aren't going to deter druggie robberies very much because they are often crazed. Heroin addicts is even worse than meth addicts, because a come down for them is excruciating.

[The Parkus Empire]

Repeatedly I have heard that we have a labor shortage on our plantations here in the United States, and that we therefore need to important more immigrants. But I have an alternative, which is slavery. Specifically the enslaving of convicts. For those sentenced to life in prison or death, this is very straightforward: simply sell them to plantations. This saves a lot of money right there, in fact sale should recoup a lot of the court cost. Now as for those doing shorter terms, I propose a period of indentured servitude instead. Contracts for indentured convicts also would save or even make a lot of money. Also I am a strong believer in hard work's power to reform. Much better than shooting up drugs in a cell.

So, what do you say, NSG? Sounds good? It's 100% Constitutional.

It may be constitutional, just like replacing all of our navy ships with RC helicopters would be constitutional, that doesn't make it any less of an outlandish, objectively terrible, and dangerous idea.

Any understanding of how prisons and farms work should immediately turn you off from this plan, they are fortresses that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build and maintain, maybe billions, and even still prisoner escapes are fairly regular; A prisoner-worked plantation would have to essentially afford all the amenities of a prison, specifically a maximum security prison if manned by prisoners for life or especially death row inmates, but have said amenities be spread out over a much larger area.

The only way for a farm to make money off of this scheme would be for them to forgo all of the vital defense measures in place, making this an even more dangerous and terrible concept. Even if you somehow made it feasible, affordable, and safe (impossible), you would then be depriving farmhands of their jobs across the country, which would lead to more unemployment, homelessness, and crime, something we have quite enough of already.

Just use chains and shackles

[Internationalist Bastard]

As a criminal he would obviously welcome being sold, knowing that every lash of his master's whip was bringing him closer to being properly civilised.

It's not legal to whip people anymore. Back when whipping slaves was legal, whipping criminals was also legal in many states and public whipping was used as punishment

It’s not illegal to whip people?
That sounds like a horrible oversight