Poll Taxes and their Merits

[Mike the Progressive]

Parkus, I have the utmost respect for you. But I'll be frank.

No.

I get where you were coming from. A couple years back, I found me some religion, I embraced what I saw as a better America. But it wasn't. It was shit. Like it is today and forever will be. Like every country will be. Because people are shit. And as long as people are shit everything they touch will have shit on, in or all over it.

I agree completely, I think this is a very important truth and has lead me to this conclusion

Great. For me it's pushed me towards indifference. The realization that in the grand scheme of things it does not matter. None of it.

For the sake of NS general, I'll play.

I agree it's problematic that people who don't pay taxes vote and often vote for candidates who pander to their interests (granted that's the nature of representative democracy). At the same time I'm not convinced a poll tax is going to change that trend. A change to the tax code perhaps might address the issue you're concerned about. But a poll tax will only create an incentive to not vote, especially if you're poor, a minority, already indifferent or D). all of the above.

Suddenly all the pandering will merely just shift from one group to another if you created a poll tax. Like I said, same shit.

[The Parkus Empire]

I agree completely, I think this is a very important truth and has lead me to this conclusion

Great. For me it's pushed me towards indifference. The realization that in the grand scheme of things it does not matter. None of it.

For the sake of NS general, I'll play.

I agree it's problematic that people who don't pay taxes vote and often vote for candidates who pander to their interests (granted that's the nature of representative democracy). At the same time I'm not convinced a poll tax is going to change that trend. A change to the tax code perhaps might address the issue you're concerned about. But a poll tax will only create an incentive to not vote, especially if you're poor, a minority, already indifferent or D). all of the above.

Suddenly all the pandering will merely just shift from one group to another if you created a poll tax. Like I said, same shit.

Pandering to taxpayers?

The issue is, if you reject Rousseau's theory of human nature, then you must by extension reject esteem for "general will"

[Mike the Progressive]

Great. For me it's pushed me towards indifference. The realization that in the grand scheme of things it does not matter. None of it.

For the sake of NS general, I'll play.

I agree it's problematic that people who don't pay taxes vote and often vote for candidates who pander to their interests (granted that's the nature of representative democracy). At the same time I'm not convinced a poll tax is going to change that trend. A change to the tax code perhaps might address the issue you're concerned about. But a poll tax will only create an incentive to not vote, especially if you're poor, a minority, already indifferent or D). all of the above.

Suddenly all the pandering will merely just shift from one group to another if you created a poll tax. Like I said, same shit.

Pandering to taxpayers?

Until a chunk of those taxpayers realize they can stiff the other "-insert-" % of taxy payers into paying more since they have more, so that the guys doing the stiffing can pay less or even get some money back. In other words it's what's happening now but you keep shrinking the tax base.

The issue is, if you reject Rousseau's theory of human nature, then you must by extension reject esteem for "general will"

I'm not going to lie. I actually had to Bing that shit (yes, I said Bing) since it has been awhile. What I do remember is that I've always been a fan of Hobbe's leviathan myself.

If your concern is the non-tax payer shafting the tax payer, the only real solution is to radically change the tax code, or even more radically abolish the income tax/embrace a flat tax (either of which would req. a const. amendment if you don't want undesired consequences).

[The Parkus Empire]

Pandering to taxpayers?

Until a chunk of those taxpayers realize they can stiff the other "-insert-" % of taxy payers into paying more since they have more, so that the guys doing the stiffing can pay less or even get some money back. In other words it's what's happening now but you keep shrinking the tax base.

The issue is, if you reject Rousseau's theory of human nature, then you must by extension reject esteem for "general will"

I'm not going to lie. I actually had to Bing that shit (yes, I said Bing) since it has been awhile. What I do remember is that I've always been a fan of Hobbe's leviathan myself.

If your concern is the non-tax payer shafting the tax payer, the only real solution is to radically change the tax code, or even more radically abolish the income tax/embrace a flat tax (either of which would req. a const. amendment if you don't want undesired consequences).

There is nothing wrong with someone who has more paying more. I oppose income tax indeed (I think tariffs would be better), but in principle the better elements of society are called to shoulder more responsibility.

However we are still left with property taxes, which I do think need to be seriously reduced. Is there any way to do this apart from poll taxes?

[Mike the Progressive]

Until a chunk of those taxpayers realize they can stiff the other "-insert-" % of taxy payers into paying more since they have more, so that the guys doing the stiffing can pay less or even get some money back. In other words it's what's happening now but you keep shrinking the tax base.



I'm not going to lie. I actually had to Bing that shit (yes, I said Bing) since it has been awhile. What I do remember is that I've always been a fan of Hobbe's leviathan myself.

If your concern is the non-tax payer shafting the tax payer, the only real solution is to radically change the tax code, or even more radically abolish the income tax/embrace a flat tax (either of which would req. a const. amendment if you don't want undesired consequences).

There is nothing wrong with someone who has more paying more. I oppose income tax indeed (I think tariffs would be better), but in principle the better elements of society are called to shoulder more responsibility.

However we are still left with property taxes, which I do think need to be seriously reduced. Is there any way to do this apart from poll taxes?

You might appreciate this, but I've always found property taxes to be immoral. Perhaps when you do not own the property outright (like you're paying a mortgage). But as silly as it sounds, I've always believed if you own that land, you shouldn't have to pay taxes on it. I get the argument for, but I just don't agree with it.

I'm not sure what to do tbh about that. If there is any real way to control it or restrict it. But I don't believe poll taxes will affect it the way you think it would or it would have adverse effects.

Don't get me started on tariffs.

[The Parkus Empire]

There is nothing wrong with someone who has more paying more. I oppose income tax indeed (I think tariffs would be better), but in principle the better elements of society are called to shoulder more responsibility.

However we are still left with property taxes, which I do think need to be seriously reduced. Is there any way to do this apart from poll taxes?

You might appreciate this, but I've always found property taxes to be immoral. Perhaps when you do not own the property outright (like you're paying a mortgage). But as silly as it sounds, I've always believed if you own that land, you shouldn't have to pay taxes on it. I get the argument for, but I just don't agree with it.

I'm not sure what to do tbh about that. If there is any real way to control it or restrict it. But I don't believe poll taxes will affect it the way you think it would or it would have adverse effects.

Don't get me started on tariffs.

I too fiercely hate property taxes. And poll taxes are the only alternative

[Mike the Progressive]

You might appreciate this, but I've always found property taxes to be immoral. Perhaps when you do not own the property outright (like you're paying a mortgage). But as silly as it sounds, I've always believed if you own that land, you shouldn't have to pay taxes on it. I get the argument for, but I just don't agree with it.

I'm not sure what to do tbh about that. If there is any real way to control it or restrict it. But I don't believe poll taxes will affect it the way you think it would or it would have adverse effects.

Don't get me started on tariffs.

I too fiercely hate property taxes. And poll taxes are the only alternative

Well shit if you say so...

Here's the problem do you sincerely believe that if allow poll taxes that the state will suddenly stop taxing property? Because I don't know what world you live in, but send me an invite.

[The Parkus Empire]

I too fiercely hate property taxes. And poll taxes are the only alternative

Well shit if you say so...

Here's the problem do you sincerely believe that if allow poll taxes that the state will suddenly stop taxing property? Because I don't know what world you live in, but send me an invite.

The areas property and poll taxes go to are small enough to be able to cope with that. They aren't statewide goverments, they are local.

[Mike the Progressive]

Well shit if you say so...

Here's the problem do you sincerely believe that if allow poll taxes that the state will suddenly stop taxing property? Because I don't know what world you live in, but send me an invite.

The areas property and poll taxes go to are small enough to be able to cope with that. They aren't statewide goverments, they are local.

Ok. I understand that and when I say the state, I mean any government entity. I'm saying is you cannot seriously and sincerely believe that if you give any government -local, state, federal- the power to tax that they will suddenly drop other forms of taxation because they should.

It just won't happen. It's why I'm even critical of the fair tax or flat tax. Because I think what would happen is they would do that and then just not get rid of everything else.

[The Parkus Empire]

The areas property and poll taxes go to are small enough to be able to cope with that. They aren't statewide goverments, they are local.

Ok. I understand that and when I say the state, I mean any government entity. I'm saying is you cannot seriously and sincerely believe that if you give any government -local, state, federal- the power to tax that they will suddenly drop other forms of taxation because they should.

It just won't happen. It's why I'm even critical of the fair tax or flat tax. Because I think what would happen is they would do that and then just not get rid of everything else.

Uh, I am familiar with my city assembly, they're very conservative (they have always refused to borrow money). I am pretty sure they would be more than happy to lower the property taxes, not the least because they too pay them

[Mike the Progressive]

Ok. I understand that and when I say the state, I mean any government entity. I'm saying is you cannot seriously and sincerely believe that if you give any government -local, state, federal- the power to tax that they will suddenly drop other forms of taxation because they should.

It just won't happen. It's why I'm even critical of the fair tax or flat tax. Because I think what would happen is they would do that and then just not get rid of everything else.

Uh, I am familiar with my city assembly, they're very conservative (they have always refused to borrow money). I am pretty sure they would be more than happy to lower the property taxes, not the least because they too pay them

Bully for you. Then pitch and bitch to them about it instead of calling on NS general to march on DC and bring the poll tax back via constitutional amendment.

[The Parkus Empire]

Uh, I am familiar with my city assembly, they're very conservative (they have always refused to borrow money). I am pretty sure they would be more than happy to lower the property taxes, not the least because they too pay them

Bully for you. Then pitch and bitch to them about it instead of calling on NS general to march on DC and bring the poll tax back via constitutional amendment.

I mean they would lower them with an alternative source of revenue

[Mike the Progressive]

Bully for you. Then pitch and bitch to them about it instead of calling on NS general to march on DC and bring the poll tax back via constitutional amendment.

I mean they would lower them with an alternative source of revenue

Sure they would, buddy. And when my mayor makes a campaign promise, by george, he keeps them!

[The Parkus Empire]

I mean they would lower them with an alternative source of revenue

Sure they would, buddy. And when my mayor makes a campaign promise, by george, he keeps them!

Depends on the mayor. But a rural area helps, I think

[Petrolheadia]

Bully for you. Then pitch and bitch to them about it instead of calling on NS general to march on DC and bring the poll tax back via constitutional amendment.

I mean they would lower them with an alternative source of revenue

You... are... serious...?

[The Parkus Empire]

I mean they would lower them with an alternative source of revenue

You... are... serious...?

Yes. My town's government and its people are not a thousand miles apart, they're very close knit