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California to Vote on Splitting in Three in November

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Northeast American Federation
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Postby Northeast American Federation » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:47 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kramanica wrote:Because the state government is legitimately terrible and does everything it can to undermine the rule of law. It should be contained.

How so? As i pointed out int the OP the logistics of this make no sense. For example Why should someone in San Diego have to pay exorbitant tuition to attend UC Berkeley?

Because then it'd be in another state. At that point, it'd be like me asking why I'd have to pay exorbitant tuition to go there when I live on the other side of the country. Not that I'd ever want to go there.
Last edited by Northeast American Federation on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Emeline
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Postby New Emeline » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:48 pm

Who is proposing this again? A Silicon Valley exec?

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:49 pm

New Emeline wrote:Who is proposing this again? A Silicon Valley exec?

Yes Tim Draper whose also a billionaire
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kramanica
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Postby Kramanica » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:49 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kramanica wrote:Because the state government is legitimately terrible and does everything it can to undermine the rule of law. It should be contained.

How so? As i pointed out int the OP the logistics of this make no sense. For example Why should someone in San Diego have to pay exorbitant tuition to attend UC Berkeley?

Through their immigration laws essentially trying to undermine federal immigration law and legalize illegals without actually legalizing them.

And I don't care.
Last edited by Kramanica on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:49 pm

Northeast American Federation wrote:
Geneviev wrote:State's rights. What more can I say?

Also, California's very nice.

I like how state's rights trump federal rules now that a certain someone is in office, but when it was other states and someone else was in office, it was all about the federal supremacy.

At the very least, I've heard the weather and landscape is generally fairly pleasant. That much won't change regardless of how this referendum goes(if it happens).

Fun, how state's rights are irrelevant now that President Trump is in the oval office. Anyways, this referendum is ridiculous in my opinion. California is a state and that shouldn't change.

I have to say the weather is great. I've been staring at the sky today because it's a very pleasant shade of blue.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:49 pm

Californias. No apostrophe. Argh.
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Kazarogkai
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Postby Kazarogkai » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:49 pm

Personally I consider most states(not just california) to be far too large when it comes down to in order to be a proper democracy. Democracy unlike most things doesn't really scale that nicely. Hence the smaller the better. So if this helps contribute to a couple smaller and more humongous states then I'm all for it. City states would be preferable from a size standpoint but this is ok I guess.

One might ask what I consider to be the ideal size for a democratic society? The overall size should be small enough to allow direct democracy to be used effectively to the greatest extent so with the lessons of Athens in mind something like 100,000 people seems to be about right. I understand that wouldn't be perfectly feasible so maybe less than 1,000,000 could potentially work albeit the actual state would be very weak with the vast majority of power and duties granted to the smaller municipalities that comprise it who themselves would be run via direct democracy and would probably have less than 100,000 people. Just some thoughts.
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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:50 pm

How will the break up happen?
What parts of CA will become their own states under this?
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New Emeline
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Postby New Emeline » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:50 pm

San Lumen wrote:
New Emeline wrote:Who is proposing this again? A Silicon Valley exec?

Yes Tim Draper whose also a billionaire

thinking emoji

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Bakra
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Postby Bakra » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:50 pm

San Lumen wrote:
New Emeline wrote:Why do they want to do this?

Dilute voting power for one and anger in some interior counties that they are outvoted by the coast. I very much doubt this would pass if it got to the ballot and even if it did Sacramento would never approve it.

This.

As someone who grew up on the coast then moved to the interior, I kind of appreciate why the interior gets so pissy at always getting buried either during voting or in the Capitol. Oddly enough there are siazable regions of the state that are decidedly conservative, they just get consistently outvoted or quelled.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:50 pm

Kramanica wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How so? As i pointed out int the OP the logistics of this make no sense. For example Why should someone in San Diego have to pay exorbitant tuition to attend UC Berkeley?

Through their immigration laws essentially trying to undermine federal immigration law and legalize illegals without actually legalizing them.

And I don't care.


Why dont you care? Plus there is also the issue of water. Los Angeles gets its water from the proposed Southern California. What's to stop the possible new government from refusing to supply them with water?
Or does that also not matter to you?
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Northeast American Federation
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Postby Northeast American Federation » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Northeast American Federation wrote:I like how state's rights trump federal rules now that a certain someone is in office, but when it was other states and someone else was in office, it was all about the federal supremacy.

At the very least, I've heard the weather and landscape is generally fairly pleasant. That much won't change regardless of how this referendum goes(if it happens).

Fun, how state's rights are irrelevant now that President Trump is in the oval office. Anyways, this referendum is ridiculous in my opinion. California is a state and that shouldn't change.

I have to say the weather is great. I've been staring at the sky today because it's a very pleasant shade of blue.

It's a breakup, not a secession. Well, at least this particular push isn't for secession. And last I checked, there are certain areas of policy in which the federal government has authority over the states. Constitutional authority at that. I suppose we could go crazy over the states rights argument but in the state this country is in, it's liable to go the same way it did the last time it came up during a time when the country was frenzied.
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Kramanica
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Postby Kramanica » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:53 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kramanica wrote:Through their immigration laws essentially trying to undermine federal immigration law and legalize illegals without actually legalizing them.

And I don't care.


Why dont you care? Plus there is also the issue of water. Los Angeles gets its water from the proposed Southern California. What's to stop the possible new government from refusing to supply them with water?
Or does that also not matter to you?

lol

When has that ever happened anywhere in the country? States can't blockade each other.

And I just don't care.
Last edited by Kramanica on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:53 pm

Valgora wrote:How will the break up happen?
What parts of CA will become their own states under this?

Look at the link in the OP. It would work like this. If a majority of the population votes yes it would go to the state legislature for approval. if they approved it by a majority vote it would go to congress who would then have to sign off on it as well and then submit it to the President. Its extremely unlikely the state legislature would approve it.

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Northeast American Federation
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Postby Northeast American Federation » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Kramanica wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Why dont you care? Plus there is also the issue of water. Los Angeles gets its water from the proposed Southern California. What's to stop the possible new government from refusing to supply them with water?
Or does that also not matter to you?

lol

When has that ever happened anywhere in the country? States can't blockade each other.

And I just don't care.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhh state's rights they can do whatever they want

It's a weak argument, and that's being very charitable.
Pro: United States of America, American Exceptionalism, Bill of Rights, Capitalism, Western Civilization, Federalism, Nationalism, Democratic Republics, Militarism, Traditional Families and gender roles, Space Exploration, Law and Order, Equality of opportunity(not to be confused with outcome), Border Security

Anti: Communism, Socialism, Modern Feminism, "Progressivism", Nazism(actual nazism, not "you disagree with me so you're a nazi" nazism), Monarchy, Globalism, Racism and racial supremacy groups of all colors, radical Islamic terrorism, Anarchism, Direct Democracy, Open Borders, Drugs, Antifa


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New Emeline
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Postby New Emeline » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Kramanica wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Why dont you care? Plus there is also the issue of water. Los Angeles gets its water from the proposed Southern California. What's to stop the possible new government from refusing to supply them with water?
Or does that also not matter to you?

lol

When has that ever happened anywhere in the country? States can't blockade each other.

And I just don't care.

There's actually a novel about that. It's called The Water Knife.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Kramanica wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Why dont you care? Plus there is also the issue of water. Los Angeles gets its water from the proposed Southern California. What's to stop the possible new government from refusing to supply them with water?
Or does that also not matter to you?

lol

When has that ever happened anywhere in the country? States can't blockade each other.

And I just don't care.


Why dont you care?

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Zyr and Pony
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Postby Zyr and Pony » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:55 pm

Valgora wrote:How will the break up happen?
What parts of CA will become their own states under this?

From the OP's source

In the proposal, the Bay Area would be in ‘Norcal’ along with the counties north of Merced. Along the coast from Monterey to Los Angeles would be ‘California’ and the counties east would be ‘Socal’.

The population of each new state would range from 13.9 million people in Socal and 13.3 million in Norcal to 12.3 million in California.


Also, wouldn't this still need approval from Congress, even if by some miracle (or disaster, rather), it passed?

I don't see that happening.
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Bakra
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Postby Bakra » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:56 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kramanica wrote:lol

When has that ever happened anywhere in the country? States can't blockade each other.

And I just don't care.


Why dont you care?


Probably for the same reason we’re discussing the non-possibility of California dividing rather than the ethnic cleansings in Burma.

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Northeast American Federation
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Postby Northeast American Federation » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:56 pm

Bakra wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Why dont you care?


Probably for the same reason we’re discussing the non-possibility of California dividing rather than the ethnic cleansings in Burma.

Shh, they can't blame white racist Drumpf supporters for that, so we don't talk about it.
Last edited by Northeast American Federation on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Pro: United States of America, American Exceptionalism, Bill of Rights, Capitalism, Western Civilization, Federalism, Nationalism, Democratic Republics, Militarism, Traditional Families and gender roles, Space Exploration, Law and Order, Equality of opportunity(not to be confused with outcome), Border Security

Anti: Communism, Socialism, Modern Feminism, "Progressivism", Nazism(actual nazism, not "you disagree with me so you're a nazi" nazism), Monarchy, Globalism, Racism and racial supremacy groups of all colors, radical Islamic terrorism, Anarchism, Direct Democracy, Open Borders, Drugs, Antifa


Si vis pacem, para bellum


Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: 3.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.87

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:57 pm

Northeast American Federation wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Fun, how state's rights are irrelevant now that President Trump is in the oval office. Anyways, this referendum is ridiculous in my opinion. California is a state and that shouldn't change.

I have to say the weather is great. I've been staring at the sky today because it's a very pleasant shade of blue.

It's a breakup, not a secession. Well, at least this particular push isn't for secession. And last I checked, there are certain areas of policy in which the federal government has authority over the states. Constitutional authority at that. I suppose we could go crazy over the states rights argument but in the state this country is in, it's liable to go the same way it did the last time it came up during a time when the country was frenzied.

I meant a state, as in one state. Secession is something completely different and a subject of its own. I mean, Yes California and Calexit campaigns are trying to revive again.

This country's going to ruin itself in my opinion. A house divided on itself can not stand and all that. Even this thread has people saying they don't like California - which, last I checked, is unrelated.
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New Emeline
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Postby New Emeline » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:57 pm

Northeast American Federation wrote:
Bakra wrote:
Probably for the same reason we’re discussing the non-possibility of California dividing rather than the ethnic cleansings in Burma.

Shh, they can't blame white racist Drumpf supporters for that, so we don't talk about it.

If you think we should talk about it, make a thread for it.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:57 pm

Zyr and Pony wrote:
Valgora wrote:How will the break up happen?
What parts of CA will become their own states under this?

From the OP's source

In the proposal, the Bay Area would be in ‘Norcal’ along with the counties north of Merced. Along the coast from Monterey to Los Angeles would be ‘California’ and the counties east would be ‘Socal’.

The population of each new state would range from 13.9 million people in Socal and 13.3 million in Norcal to 12.3 million in California.


Also, wouldn't this still need approval from Congress, even if by some miracle (or disaster, rather), it passed?

I don't see that happening.


It would have to be approved by the state legislature first.

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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:57 pm

Does this splitting the state into three new ones help Draper in anyway?
I already don't trust him since he's a billionaire.
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Kramanica
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Postby Kramanica » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:58 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kramanica wrote:lol

When has that ever happened anywhere in the country? States can't blockade each other.

And I just don't care.


Why dont you care?

Because I don't care about someone's tuition at UC Berkley.
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