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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:42 am
by The Xenopolis Confederation
Hammer Britannia wrote:"God is dead"
-Random 6 year old

Anyways, why does Satanism count as irreligious? I get it is the worship of man, kinda, but still.e

Not really conventional theism to say the least. Many schools of satanism don't have traditional gods and many satanists are just LARPing atheists.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:43 am
by Big Jim P
The New California Republic wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:I chose secular humanist in the poll. I'm not super knowledgeable about the particulars, but its way more of a life philosophy than atheism is or could ever be.

But atheism can be far more liberating, but can also be (somewhat contradictorily) a terrible burden as well. Nietzsche's parable of the Madman sums it up pretty well:

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!" -- As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated? -- Thus they yelled and laughed.
The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him -- you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars -- and yet they have done it themselves.

It has been related further that on the same day the madman forced his way into several churches and there struck up his requiem aeternam deo. Led out and called to account, he is said always to have replied nothing but: "What after all are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?"

Any time I seek god, I just find the nearest mirror. *not snarking*

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:43 am
by Eol Sha
The New California Republic wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:I chose secular humanist in the poll. I'm not super knowledgeable about the particulars, but its way more of a life philosophy than atheism is or could ever be.

But atheism can be far more liberating, but can also be (somewhat contradictorily) a terrible burden as well. Nietzsche's parable of the Madman sums it up pretty well:

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!" -- As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated? -- Thus they yelled and laughed.
The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him -- you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars -- and yet they have done it themselves.

It has been related further that on the same day the madman forced his way into several churches and there struck up his requiem aeternam deo. Led out and called to account, he is said always to have replied nothing but: "What after all are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?"

......Okay :unsure:

Like, I still consider myself an atheist.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:44 am
by Big Jim P
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:"God is dead"
-Random 6 year old

Anyways, why does Satanism count as irreligious? I get it is the worship of man, kinda, but still.e

Not really conventional theism to say the least. Many schools of satanism don't have traditional gods and many satanists are just LARPing atheists.


There are theistic branches, and kids playing at being edgy. I personally try to avoid both.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:45 am
by The Xenopolis Confederation
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:Who do you worship?


The Greek pantheon. There's a couple polytheists hanging around NSG, not enough to keep a discussion thread active though.

w o k e

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:46 am
by The New California Republic
Eol Sha wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:But atheism can be far more liberating, but can also be (somewhat contradictorily) a terrible burden as well. Nietzsche's parable of the Madman sums it up pretty well:


......Okay :unsure:

Like, I still consider myself an atheist.

I wasn't disputing that, just food for thought. Have you ever read Nietzsche?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:47 am
by Ifreann
Alvecia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I think I've seen four or five atheism threads since the Christian thread started, and none of them lasted very long.

Turns out that when the thing people have in common is not believing in any god or gods, that doesn't give them a lot to talk about.

"God still not existing?"
"Yup"
"K"
"..."

*tumbleweed*
"Bet God didn't do that"
"Yeah"

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:48 am
by Big Jim P
Ifreann wrote:
Alvecia wrote:"God still not existing?"
"Yup"
"K"
"..."

*tumbleweed*
"Bet God didn't do that"
"Yeah"

It is entirely possible that I did kick that tumbleweed. >:(

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:50 am
by Eol Sha
The New California Republic wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:......Okay :unsure:

Like, I still consider myself an atheist.

I wasn't disputing that, just food for thought. Have you ever read Nietzsche?

Nah, man. The only thing I could glean from that twisted salad of words was that churches will become the tombs of God as people abandon religion.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:50 am
by The Xenopolis Confederation
Auze wrote:
Arkhall wrote:That had a pretty weak OP and thus, little to discuss from the start.

Lasted 15 pages before dying. My point is, wouldn't it be better to necro it than form a new one? Not sure about the rules there.

I didn't realise it existed, because I only looked for "Atheist" discussion thread.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:53 am
by The Xenopolis Confederation
FelrikTheDeleted wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Adding to that, if you're keen on podcasts, I'd recommed the Scathing Atheist guys. They also do a show where they review shitty Christian movies. They tackled the newest God's Not Dead film not that long ago.


Bloody hell, those movies are embarrassments, why some Catholics gave it good ratings I will never know.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Also, here's some atheist/agnostic YouTubers;




>rationality rules

After they put a dunce hat on top of Thomas Aquinas’ head, I can’t say I would recommend them. Vernaculis and Armoured Skeptic are people I’d recommend though, on the basis that they’re entertaining.

I don't know who Thomas Aquinas is so that's neither here nor there for me.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:54 am
by The New California Republic
Eol Sha wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:I wasn't disputing that, just food for thought. Have you ever read Nietzsche?

Nah, man. The only thing I could glean from that twisted salad of words was that churches will become the tombs of God as people abandon religion.

Sure, Nietzsche takes a bit of getting used to, but he is well worth reading with a bit of patience.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:58 am
by The New California Republic
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I don't know who Thomas Aquinas is so that's neither here nor there for me.

He is quite an important figure in the history of philosophy. Some of his writings are just fantastic to read.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:06 am
by FelrikTheDeleted
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I don't know who Thomas Aquinas is so that's neither here nor there for me.


Thomas is an important saint, theologian and philosopher, for both Christian’s and atheist’s living in the West; his works laid down the ground work for the renaissance and his influence on Western thought is considerable. His works are fantastic to read, although hard to understand if you’re not familiar with Aristotle’s or the Church Father’s works, not to mention the Bible.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:08 am
by Alvecia
The New California Republic wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I don't know who Thomas Aquinas is so that's neither here nor there for me.

He is quite an important figure in the history of philosophy. Some of his writings are just fantastic to read.

He's too OP, plz nerf

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:18 am
by Hammer Britannia
Big Jim P wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Not really conventional theism to say the least. Many schools of satanism don't have traditional gods and many satanists are just LARPing atheists.


There are theistic branches, and kids playing at being edgy. I personally try to avoid both.

Personally, I believe Edgy kids who are pretending to worship a reglion (or lack thereof) belong in their own group...

... Pretentious Pretenders or (PP for short)

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:28 am
by Big Jim P
Hammer Britannia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
There are theistic branches, and kids playing at being edgy. I personally try to avoid both.

Personally, I believe Edgy kids who are pretending to worship a reglion (or lack thereof) belong in their own group...

... Pretentious Pretenders or (PP for short)


Good one. I tend to avoid the as I said, but I do keep my eye out for those who may grow into proper Satanists. Even those are likely to go through an annoying, militant anti-Christian phase (I did). Until their Satanism matures a bit, I still avoid them.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:32 am
by The New California Republic
Alvecia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:He is quite an important figure in the history of philosophy. Some of his writings are just fantastic to read.

He's too OP, plz nerf

Don't worry, the Thomas Aquinas card can easily be countered as long as you have the Bertrand Russell card. You could also use the Friedrich Nietzsche card against Aquinas, as long as you use the "God is Dead" special power on the reverse of the card.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:49 am
by FelrikTheDeleted
The New California Republic wrote:
Alvecia wrote:He's too OP, plz nerf

Don't worry, the Thomas Aquinas card can easily be countered as long as you have the Bertrand Russell card. You could also use the Friedrich Nietzsche card against Aquinas, as long as you use the "God is Dead" special power on the reverse of the card.


>Bertrand Russell

Whilst he is certainly a respectable philosopher, his arguments against St Thomas Aquinas’ Five Ways were, as far as I’m aware, born out of wrongly interpreting the subject content (that said, there are arguments to be made for his refutation of Thomas). A far better refutation of Thomas can be found in Kant, although, like all of his opposition, there is an argument to be made that he misunderstood what Thomas said (which is an incredibly easy thing to do, even for experienced theologians and philosophers).

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:50 am
by Collatis
Saganist here.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:52 am
by Alvecia
Collatis wrote:Saganist here.

Was not even aware that was a descriptor

Only definition I could find was on Urban Dictionary of all places

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:06 am
by The New California Republic
FelrikTheDeleted wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Don't worry, the Thomas Aquinas card can easily be countered as long as you have the Bertrand Russell card. You could also use the Friedrich Nietzsche card against Aquinas, as long as you use the "God is Dead" special power on the reverse of the card.


>Bertrand Russell

Whilst he is certainly a respectable philosopher, his arguments against St Thomas Aquinas’ Five Ways were, as far as I’m aware, born out of wrongly interpreting the subject content (that said, there are arguments to be made for his refutation of Thomas). A far better refutation of Thomas can be found in Kant, although, like all of his opposition, there is an argument to be made that he misunderstood what Thomas said (which is an incredibly easy thing to do, even for experienced theologians and philosophers).

Apologies. I should have my serious philosophy face on, instead of the joking one. I just don't get a chance to make bad jokes related to philosophy that often.

But you are right of course. I find that Russell had a tendency to dismiss the works of other philosophers too readily. Case in point: his unjustified attacks on Nietzsche in The History of Western Philosophy. The section on Nietzsche is just laughable, it reads like tabloid trash.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 am
by FelrikTheDeleted
The New California Republic wrote:
FelrikTheDeleted wrote:
>Bertrand Russell

Whilst he is certainly a respectable philosopher, his arguments against St Thomas Aquinas’ Five Ways were, as far as I’m aware, born out of wrongly interpreting the subject content (that said, there are arguments to be made for his refutation of Thomas). A far better refutation of Thomas can be found in Kant, although, like all of his opposition, there is an argument to be made that he misunderstood what Thomas said (which is an incredibly easy thing to do, even for experienced theologians and philosophers).

Apologies. I should have my serious philosophy face on, instead of the joking one. I just don't get a chance to make bad jokes related to philosophy that often.

But you are right of course. I find that Russell had a tendency to dismiss the works of other philosophers too readily. Case in point: his unjustified attacks on Nietzsche in The History of Western Philosophy. The section on Nietzsche is just laughable, it reads like tabloid trash.


The joking face is fine, I should have made a joke myself considering I knew you were taking the piss. In anycase, I agree.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:35 am
by Collatis
Alvecia wrote:
Collatis wrote:Saganist here.

Was not even aware that was a descriptor

Only definition I could find was on Urban Dictionary of all places

It isn’t really, but the similarity to ‘Satanist’ is amusing.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:57 am
by Auze
Ifreann wrote:I think I've seen four or five atheism threads since the Christian thread started, and none of them lasted very long.

Turns out that when the thing people have in common is not believing in any god or gods, that doesn't give them a lot to talk about.

The closest thing I've seen to a "successful" atheist discussion thread was the "If God exists why is there evil" one, and it was a mess to read (got plenty of zealots from both sides). I guess this comment applies to it:
Bombadil wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:Why do we need a thread for this? I'm mostly asking as a personal question rather than as a mod because I am atheist and I don't see the point of it.


Sort of agree, sort of like ‘discuss not being a hamster, how has not being a hamster affected your life and views’.. and then it just devolves into a hamster bashing thread.