Debatable and debated, forsooth, without even coming to a definitive answer.
Also, a genocide is made of multiple accounts of murder, and the OT says it's ok as long as you murder people whose land and homes you stole.
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by Risottia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:52 am
by Albrenia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:55 am
Mujahidah wrote:Chan Island wrote:Darkmatter 2525 has uploaded a new video. This one is about how anti-theists are often compared to various Communist despots. Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GjCRWeG_AQ
I've never quite understood the logic behind anti-theists. They hold religion to be "excessively dogmatic" and "oppressive" and yet they dogmatically assail people simply for believing in something different. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?
by The Grims » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:12 am
Albrenia wrote:Mujahidah wrote:
I've never quite understood the logic behind anti-theists. They hold religion to be "excessively dogmatic" and "oppressive" and yet they dogmatically assail people simply for believing in something different. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?
I dislike it when people bludgeon (figuratively or literally) the religious for their beliefs. The beliefs themselves, however, can be criticised without it being an attack on the believer.
by Mujahidah » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:13 am
Albrenia wrote:Mujahidah wrote:
I've never quite understood the logic behind anti-theists. They hold religion to be "excessively dogmatic" and "oppressive" and yet they dogmatically assail people simply for believing in something different. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?
I dislike it when people bludgeon (figuratively or literally) the religious for their beliefs. The beliefs themselves, however, can be criticised without it being an attack on the believer.
The Parkus Empire wrote:To paraphrase my hero, Richard Nixon: she's pink right down to her hijab.
The Parkus Empire wrote:I misjudged you, you are much more smarter than I gave you credit for.
Northern Davincia wrote:Can we engrave this in a plaque?
The Parkus Empire wrote:I am not sure I'm entirely comfortable with a woman being this well informed, but I'll try not to judge.
The Parkus Empire wrote:Ah, m'lady, if I were a heathen I'd wed thee four times
by Albrenia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:14 am
The Grims wrote:Albrenia wrote:
I dislike it when people bludgeon (figuratively or literally) the religious for their beliefs. The beliefs themselves, however, can be criticised without it being an attack on the believer.
How can one claim the morals and teachings of a religion are worthless and/or vile while at the same time not attacking the people who willingly follow said teachings ?
by Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:17 am
Mujahidah wrote:Albrenia wrote:
I dislike it when people bludgeon (figuratively or literally) the religious for their beliefs. The beliefs themselves, however, can be criticised without it being an attack on the believer.
If you call my beliefs despicable, you are insulting me. One can simultaneously not hold ill-will towards religion while being irreligious.
by The Grims » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:26 am
Albrenia wrote:The Grims wrote:
How can one claim the morals and teachings of a religion are worthless and/or vile while at the same time not attacking the people who willingly follow said teachings ?
Because the vast majority of people I know who are 'of faith' are nice people who would never lock people up in a torture dungeon for eternity? Their God may not live up to them, but they're good people nonetheless.
by Albrenia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:32 am
The Grims wrote:Albrenia wrote:
Because the vast majority of people I know who are 'of faith' are nice people who would never lock people up in a torture dungeon for eternity? Their God may not live up to them, but they're good people nonetheless.
You misunderstand. If you were to tell a follower of religion X his deity (that he loves) is unworthy of worship, nonexistent or whatever you are automatically also attacking them personally.
by The New California Republic » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:56 am
The Grims wrote:Albrenia wrote:
Because the vast majority of people I know who are 'of faith' are nice people who would never lock people up in a torture dungeon for eternity? Their God may not live up to them, but they're good people nonetheless.
You misunderstand. If you were to tell a follower of religion X his deity (that he loves) is unworthy of worship, nonexistent or whatever you are automatically also attacking them personally.
by The Parkus Empire » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:25 am
by Topoliani » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:29 am
by The New California Republic » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:31 am
Topoliani wrote:If there is no god, then why does sleep exist?
No universe where there isn't a loving god would this gift exist.
by The Tomerlands » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:32 am
by Topoliani » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:33 am
by The New California Republic » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:34 am
by Albrenia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:44 pm
by Reikoku » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:50 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Depending on how you look at it, I am an atheist AND a polytheist.
Mujahidah wrote:Chan Island wrote:Darkmatter 2525 has uploaded a new video. This one is about how anti-theists are often compared to various Communist despots. Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GjCRWeG_AQ
I've never quite understood the logic behind anti-theists. They hold religion to be "excessively dogmatic" and "oppressive" and yet they dogmatically assail people simply for believing in something different. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?
by Philjia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:50 pm
Nemesis the Warlock wrote:I am the Nemesis, I am the Warlock, I am the shape of things to come, the Lord of the Flies, holder of the Sword Sinister, the Death Bringer, I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams, I am all these things and many more
by Geneviev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:51 pm
The Grims wrote:Albrenia wrote:
Because the vast majority of people I know who are 'of faith' are nice people who would never lock people up in a torture dungeon for eternity? Their God may not live up to them, but they're good people nonetheless.
You misunderstand. If you were to tell a follower of religion X his deity (that he loves) is unworthy of worship, nonexistent or whatever you are automatically also attacking them personally.
by Happy Christian Land » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:55 pm
by Happy Christian Land » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:59 pm
Albrenia wrote:I wonder if Atheism shows a strong correlation with other sorts of disbelief, for example are there many Atheists who believe in things like ghosts, karma, aliens, OBEs or NDEs?
Myself, I don't believe in ghosts, metaphysical karma, psychics or things like OBEs. I suspect aliens exist, but are so far away I'll be long dead before we discover them, if we ever do.
by Lower Nubia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:00 pm
Lower Nubia wrote:Again, typical of the 21st century to impose our individualism onto 15th century BCE collectivism. Notice that this isn’t a cultural aspect, but a universal set of actions followed by people of varying cultures. Due in part to a universal set of qualities: poor populace, low total populace, low literacy, low food and water, and low resources. Over 60% of the modern worlds population have collectivist leanings and these countries are all poor, (Japan seems to be centerfield for this one). Egypt’s population wasn’t innocent.
The narrative placed the Egyptian nation as forcing the Israelites into slavery (a harsh slavery based on daunting manual labour, where Pharoah illustrates that the labour would hault the growth of the Israelites “lest they increase”, so in other words he worked the women and men to death, this lasted 80 years, the slavery lasted roughly 300 years) while also the Egyptians themselves were all commanded to propagate the murder of the Hebrew newborns. This irritable idea that the Egyptians were innocent is ridiculous, all members of that society were warned. From the first 9 plagues came warning, the “innocent” Egyptians had plenty of opportunity to repent and free the Israelites, Pharoah himself hardened his heart along with the entire nation of Egypt, which even the Philistines understood to be true as in Samuel 6:
“Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?”
Even While non of the Egyptian peoples sought anything against Pharoah, whose tenuous role as elected by the gods would be called into question by the plagues. Finally all first borns had a price placed upon them from Egyptian to Israelite as in Numbers 3:12:
“And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine; Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the Lord.”
What’s even more interesting that you say: “kills them when he wishes to” but in reality he only punished them after they had committed terrible crimes. As previously eluded too, God does not flip flop on this, he has cut himself off from the world due to sin and is therefore not some magic fairy where all your problems disappear even if you’re an ardent follower. The cost is high, what is given was necessary and it was sufficient to do what was needed, that’s all God needed to do, but even then, He provides more than they deserved. God’s methods specificallly play on the human weakness, to illustrate the failure of man to provide for himself, which is exactly what man wants because of his sin.
It’s ironic isn’t it? The Egyptians would not only have seen it as a just punishment, but the only necessary punishment. Yet you claim to be for the Egyptian position, even though the very qualities of your judgement, they would reject. If individual states provide legitimacy within the law, then who are we to judge the Egyptian’s own position on what is proper and true according to their law? We present ourselves as a more sophisticated and intellectual people’s, a mantle we only hold because we have more to sustain that sophistry, not because we’re a better or more noble populace today than then.
Your final objection has been dealt with on the CDT, so stop sticking to the fundamentalist canard.
Albrenia wrote:So, in short, the children of Egypt had it coming because they were born into a society which committed evil. Nice. They should have repented their little baby hearts, they were warned! Just saying "they weren't innocent' doesn't make it so. The firstborn would have included newborns and young children
Albrenia wrote:, as well as less well off Egyptians with zero part to play in the grand evils of the more wealthy.
Albrenia wrote:I also doubt the Egyptians who lost their children would have thought "Well, it's a fair cop." so nice work putting words in the mouths of ancient people. Even if they did, being beaten into accepting an entity's will is not proof of the will being moral.
Notice that this isn’t a cultural aspect, but a universal set of actions followed by people of varying cultures. Due in part to a universal set of qualities: poor populace, low total populace, low literacy, low food and water, and low resources.
The Teaching of Ankhsheshonqy (AEL 3: 159–84) was discovered on a long papyrus scroll written in the late 1st century b.c. The beginning of the text and the top lines of all twenty-eight columns are lost. The citation of lines, some in sequence, on two papyri of 2d century b.c. date suggests that the original goes back to the early Ptolemaic period. ... There are striking parallels between some maxims in the two compositions. The most significant themes concerning the wise man versus the fool and the certainty of retribution, together with two formulations of the Golden Rule.
Albrenia wrote:In short, just more excuses for an evil act of God. He didn't need to kill anyone, at all. Any omnipotent and all powerful God could have easily freed all of Israel without taking a single innocent life... or guilty life for that matter.
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by Albrenia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:23 pm
Lower Nubia wrote:-snip-
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