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Possible war with Syria?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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War with Syria?

1-This an attempt by war Hawks to trigger a war, to demonstrate American military might.
57
12%
2-This is an attempt by the military industrial complex to make money with another war.
93
19%
3-This is an attempt to engage in a proxy war with Russia.
77
16%
4-This is an attempt to trigger a war with Russia.
34
7%
5-Assad is merely evil, and it is our moral duty to take him out.
102
21%
6-Assad is evil, but we should stay out of the conflict.
117
24%
 
Total votes : 480

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Eol Sha
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Posts: 14708
Founded: Aug 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:16 pm

New Axiom wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Exactly! Exactly! There is almost never a real justification, so we stop attacking. Actually, no, I would just assume you go to my school. Going with the comparison, I would accuse you of assault.


But if you had poisoned some people using gas at a concert, that’d be enough justification for me to hit you, restrain you the best I can, and wait do what I need to do to make sure you can’t posion more people. This is the best analogy my tired brain can come up with for the use of force in Syria, forgive me if it’s bad.

Except the US isn't restraining Syria. Using the analogy, all you're doing to the poisoner is poking them in the chest and wagging your finger.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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Arkhall
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Founded: Feb 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Arkhall » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:16 pm

So much for option 6 on the poll.

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Geneviev
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:18 pm

New Axiom wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Exactly! Exactly! There is almost never a real justification, so we stop attacking. Actually, no, I would just assume you go to my school. Going with the comparison, I would accuse you of assault.


But if you had poisoned some people using gas at a concert, that’d be enough justification for me to hit you, restrain you the best I can, and wait do what I need to do to make sure you can’t posion more people. This is the best analogy my tired brain can come up with for the use of force in Syria, forgive me if it’s bad.

It is inaccurate. Restraining me would be justified. Killing me, not really.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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Mujahidah
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Posts: 2625
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Mujahidah » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:18 pm

Eol Sha wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
But if you had poisoned some people using gas at a concert, that’d be enough justification for me to hit you, restrain you the best I can, and wait do what I need to do to make sure you can’t posion more people. This is the best analogy my tired brain can come up with for the use of force in Syria, forgive me if it’s bad.

Except the US isn't restraining Syria. Using the analogy, all you're doing to the poisoner is poking them in the chest and wagging your finger.


I feel bombing chemical weapons facilities does do at least something tangible to diminish Assad's capabilities in using them.
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Geneviev
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Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:18 pm

Arkhall wrote:So much for option 6 on the poll.

The one I chose. Oh well. There goes my small pacifist heart.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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New Axiom
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Aug 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Axiom » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:20 pm

Eol Sha wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
But if you had poisoned some people using gas at a concert, that’d be enough justification for me to hit you, restrain you the best I can, and wait do what I need to do to make sure you can’t posion more people. This is the best analogy my tired brain can come up with for the use of force in Syria, forgive me if it’s bad.

Except the US isn't restraining Syria. Using the analogy, all you're doing to the poisoner is poking them in the chest and wagging your finger.


Fear my eccentric finger wagging, says the mighty US.

How, exactly, would you restrain a country? It’s not like it can go anywhere.
Everyone has a plan until the New Axiom Imperial Army comes. Then everyone is just like, omigawd. Run.

My favorite user quotes:
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.


Ethel mermania wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
You mean Black Friday as in the Apex Preadator of Capatalism?

Victory is measured in gi Joe dolls and easy bake ovens. It was not old age that killed castro, it was nintendo.


Pringles or Lays Stax? I prefer the Lays.

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Eol Sha
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14708
Founded: Aug 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:21 pm

Mujahidah wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:Except the US isn't restraining Syria. Using the analogy, all you're doing to the poisoner is poking them in the chest and wagging your finger.


I feel bombing chemical weapons facilities does do at least something tangible to diminish Assad's capabilities in using them.

I don't. I'm convinced this'll happen again sometime in the future.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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New Axiom
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Aug 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Axiom » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:21 pm

Mujahidah wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:Except the US isn't restraining Syria. Using the analogy, all you're doing to the poisoner is poking them in the chest and wagging your finger.


I feel bombing chemical weapons facilities does do at least something tangible to diminish Assad's capabilities in using them.


That was my thinking.
Everyone has a plan until the New Axiom Imperial Army comes. Then everyone is just like, omigawd. Run.

My favorite user quotes:
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.


Ethel mermania wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
You mean Black Friday as in the Apex Preadator of Capatalism?

Victory is measured in gi Joe dolls and easy bake ovens. It was not old age that killed castro, it was nintendo.


Pringles or Lays Stax? I prefer the Lays.

User avatar
New Axiom
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Aug 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Axiom » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:22 pm

Eol Sha wrote:
Mujahidah wrote:
I feel bombing chemical weapons facilities does do at least something tangible to diminish Assad's capabilities in using them.

I don't. I'm convinced this'll happen again sometime in the future.


“At least something” doesn’t exactly mean something gigantic and war winning.
Everyone has a plan until the New Axiom Imperial Army comes. Then everyone is just like, omigawd. Run.

My favorite user quotes:
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.


Ethel mermania wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
You mean Black Friday as in the Apex Preadator of Capatalism?

Victory is measured in gi Joe dolls and easy bake ovens. It was not old age that killed castro, it was nintendo.


Pringles or Lays Stax? I prefer the Lays.

User avatar
Eol Sha
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14708
Founded: Aug 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:22 pm

New Axiom wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:Except the US isn't restraining Syria. Using the analogy, all you're doing to the poisoner is poking them in the chest and wagging your finger.


Fear my eccentric finger wagging, says the mighty US.

How, exactly, would you restrain a country? It’s not like it can go anywhere.

A full-scale invasion.

You made the analogy.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

User avatar
Eol Sha
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14708
Founded: Aug 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:24 pm

New Axiom wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:I don't. I'm convinced this'll happen again sometime in the future.


“At least something” doesn’t exactly mean something gigantic and war winning.

The supposed purpose of these strikes is to stop Assad from using chemical weapons. If he uses them again in the future then these strikes were, at best, ineffective.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

User avatar
New Axiom
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Aug 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Axiom » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:26 pm

Eol Sha wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
Fear my eccentric finger wagging, says the mighty US.

How, exactly, would you restrain a country? It’s not like it can go anywhere.

A full-scale invasion.

You made the analogy.


I know, but a full scale military invasion would make Russia very unhappy. Think the poisoner has a gunman companion who will shoot you when you tackle the poisoner. Now, while you will disarm the gumnan and restrain the poisoner until the cops show up, you yourself was poisoned a little bit-nonlethally-and shot. You won’t die, but you were shot and poisoned. You’d lie there in the hospital bed thinking, was it worth it? After all, you didn’t take out all the bad guys in the world.
Everyone has a plan until the New Axiom Imperial Army comes. Then everyone is just like, omigawd. Run.

My favorite user quotes:
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.


Ethel mermania wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
You mean Black Friday as in the Apex Preadator of Capatalism?

Victory is measured in gi Joe dolls and easy bake ovens. It was not old age that killed castro, it was nintendo.


Pringles or Lays Stax? I prefer the Lays.

User avatar
Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:27 pm

Syrian state-run TV is reporting that three civilians have been wounded in the US-led missile attack on a military base in Homs.

Reports say the attack was largely thwarted by the derailing of incoming missiles but add that nonetheless, three people were wounded.

The TV network says a separate attack of “a number of missiles” - targeting a scientific research centre - destroyed a building and caused other material damage but no human losses. The network said the building in the research centre included an education centre and other laboratories.


Source: The Guardian

Justification? Three civilians, Assad still okay.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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Eol Sha
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14708
Founded: Aug 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:28 pm

New Axiom wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:A full-scale invasion.

You made the analogy.


I know, but a full scale military invasion would make Russia very unhappy. Think the poisoner has a gunman companion who will shoot you when you tackle the poisoner. Now, while you will disarm the gumnan and restrain the poisoner until the cops show up, you yourself was poisoned a little bit-nonlethally-and shot. You won’t die, but you were shot and poisoned. You’d lie there in the hospital bed thinking, was it worth it? After all, you didn’t take out all the bad guys in the world.

Well....now I'm lost.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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New Axiom
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Aug 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Axiom » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:29 pm

Eol Sha wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
I know, but a full scale military invasion would make Russia very unhappy. Think the poisoner has a gunman companion who will shoot you when you tackle the poisoner. Now, while you will disarm the gumnan and restrain the poisoner until the cops show up, you yourself was poisoned a little bit-nonlethally-and shot. You won’t die, but you were shot and poisoned. You’d lie there in the hospital bed thinking, was it worth it? After all, you didn’t take out all the bad guys in the world.

Well....now I'm lost.


Yeah, I’m failing at this. I concede for know, I’m too tired to keep up this debate.
Everyone has a plan until the New Axiom Imperial Army comes. Then everyone is just like, omigawd. Run.

My favorite user quotes:
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.


Ethel mermania wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
You mean Black Friday as in the Apex Preadator of Capatalism?

Victory is measured in gi Joe dolls and easy bake ovens. It was not old age that killed castro, it was nintendo.


Pringles or Lays Stax? I prefer the Lays.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19884
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:31 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Syrian state-run TV is reporting that three civilians have been wounded in the US-led missile attack on a military base in Homs.

Reports say the attack was largely thwarted by the derailing of incoming missiles but add that nonetheless, three people were wounded.

The TV network says a separate attack of “a number of missiles” - targeting a scientific research centre - destroyed a building and caused other material damage but no human losses. The network said the building in the research centre included an education centre and other laboratories.


Source: The Guardian

Justification? Three civilians, Assad still okay.


"Syrian state-run TV". Not really going to put much stock in the opinions of a mouthpiece of the regime.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

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Eol Sha
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Posts: 14708
Founded: Aug 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:32 pm

New Axiom wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:Well....now I'm lost.


Yeah, I’m failing at this. I concede for know, I’m too tired to keep up this debate.

And once again I crush my foes. Allow me to here your lamentations. :p

I fully understand. Politics is tiring.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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New Axiom
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Aug 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Axiom » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:32 pm

Eol Sha wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
Yeah, I’m failing at this. I concede for know, I’m too tired to keep up this debate.

And once again I crush my foes. Allow me to here your lamentations. :p

I fully understand. Politics is tiring.


Glad to see you’re polite and honorable in the face of victory. :hug:
Last edited by New Axiom on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Everyone has a plan until the New Axiom Imperial Army comes. Then everyone is just like, omigawd. Run.

My favorite user quotes:
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.


Ethel mermania wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
You mean Black Friday as in the Apex Preadator of Capatalism?

Victory is measured in gi Joe dolls and easy bake ovens. It was not old age that killed castro, it was nintendo.


Pringles or Lays Stax? I prefer the Lays.

User avatar
Saiwania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22269
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:35 pm

Kramanica wrote:An American hoping for Americans to get killed? Charming. You sure you aren't fifth column?


They'll be fine if they eject in time. If these planes are running amok over Syria, Syria has a right to defend its airspace. Yeah, I'll freely admit that I so strongly disagree with certain portions of my government's foreign policy. The last time there was no one to stop the US, Libya happened. Only Russian weapons can keep the US out. We have no right to be there like Russia is.
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19884
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:36 pm

"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

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New Emeline
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6275
Founded: Jan 16, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Emeline » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:37 pm


What about it is interesting?

User avatar
Eol Sha
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14708
Founded: Aug 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:37 pm

New Axiom wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:And once again I crush my foes. Allow me to here your lamentations. :p

I fully understand. Politics is tiring.


Glad to see you’re polite in the face of victory. :hug:

I guess the last thing I'll say on this is that I acknowledge that I could be wrong. While I think I have more than enough justification to question the effectiveness of these strikes, and the supposed morality of attacking Assad when he kills kids with chemical weapons, but not with barrel bombs, I realize that I'm not a fortune teller and that you could be right.

Anyway, Imma stop for tonight. :)
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19884
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:39 pm

New Emeline wrote:

What about it is interesting?


It's not openly expressing support for the strikes in Syria. Compare it with Australia's response.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
New Axiom
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Aug 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Axiom » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Yup, I’m off for the night as well. If we’re not all dead by the time I awake, I’ll see you all then!
Everyone has a plan until the New Axiom Imperial Army comes. Then everyone is just like, omigawd. Run.

My favorite user quotes:
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.


Ethel mermania wrote:
New Axiom wrote:
You mean Black Friday as in the Apex Preadator of Capatalism?

Victory is measured in gi Joe dolls and easy bake ovens. It was not old age that killed castro, it was nintendo.


Pringles or Lays Stax? I prefer the Lays.

User avatar
Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Geneviev wrote:
Source: The Guardian

Justification? Three civilians, Assad still okay.


"Syrian state-run TV". Not really going to put much stock in the opinions of a mouthpiece of the regime.

Fair point, I have to admit sadly. My fact-checking abilities seem to have disappeared this morning.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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