Immigration Discussion: Its a hard knock life!

[NERVUN]

Why? For example, I am an immigrant to Japan. My wife is of Japanese birth. My sons hold duel citizenship.

Now, I, as an adult, work, pay taxes, am a teacher, and a volunteer firefighter in my community.

None of the above apply to my sons nor my wife at this point in her life (Actually I have a longer record of paying taxes than she does currently). So... why is it logical to value them over me?


*sighs* Here we go again. See the post a bit above you about that.


Just more sad about the ignorance, really.

Did you move to Japan illegally?

No, but that has nothing to do with the post.

[Albrenia]

How so? Nationalism is, as defined by the Merriam-Webster Dictionary;

“loyalty and devotion to a nation”.

How is that bad?

Mostly because nationalist have a tendency to take it to the "That means we're better than them*".


*Them can be applied however you wish.

In addition, it's a great excuse for people to turn a blind eye to horrors just because they happen across a border.

[Chernoslavia]

Did you move to Japan illegally?

No, but that has nothing to do with the post.

It does have to do with Sicaris's however. If you come to a country illegally the only thing you ''deserve'' is a one way trip back. Moving to other people's lands isn't a right.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No, but that has nothing to do with the post.

It does have to do with Sicaris's however. If you come to a country illegally the only thing you ''deserve'' is a one way trip back. Moving to other people's lands isn't a right.

It technically is.

[NERVUN]

No, but that has nothing to do with the post.

It does have to do with Sicaris's however. If you come to a country illegally the only thing you ''deserve'' is a one way trip back. Moving to other people's lands isn't a right.

You may want to read again.

Resources should not be given to illegal immigrants and immigrants from another country should not be the primary concern of the country they want to live in. Let the country take care of it’s own citizens and own problems first before devoting resources to people that aren’t even of that country.

He didn't just call out only illegal immigrants, but ALL immigrants.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/
Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 13: (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 15: (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

[Chernoslavia]

It does have to do with Sicaris's however. If you come to a country illegally the only thing you ''deserve'' is a one way trip back. Moving to other people's lands isn't a right.

You may want to read again.

Resources should not be given to illegal immigrants and immigrants from another country should not be the primary concern of the country they want to live in. Let the country take care of it’s own citizens and own problems first before devoting resources to people that aren’t even of that country.

He didn't just call out only illegal immigrants, but ALL immigrants.

I agree with the illegal immigrant bit however.

[Rio Cana]

All this not wanting illegal immigrants. So make them legal or at least give them yearly temporary work permits after which time they go back home until next year.

One result of getting tough on immigrants can be found in the state of Michigan. Seems that they cannot find enough people to milk and take care of cows in Michigan. Seems US citizens are not into milking cows or cleaning up after them for the price they are paying unless everyone would like to pay $10 for a gallon of milk.

So there solution is to advertise for cheap labor at the job centers located in the US territories They should go milk there own cows or get out of the cow milking business altogether.

Actually, Bolivians and Nicaraguans workers would be ideal for this job since both nations have plenty of people who tend to cows/cattle.

[Oil exporting People]

All this not wanting illegal immigrants. So make them legal or at least give them yearly temporary work permits after which time they go back home until next year.

Please go and rethink these two sentences for a little bit, and then come back to this thread.

One result of getting tough on immigrants can be found in the state of Michigan. Seems that they cannot find enough people to milk and take care of cows in Michigan. Seems US citizens are not into milking cows or cleaning up after them for the price they are paying unless everyone would like to pay $10 for a gallon of milk.

Same goes for this one.

[Chernoslavia]

All this not wanting illegal immigrants. So make them legal or at least give them yearly temporary work permits after which time they go back home until next year.

um no? they need to go back.

[Rio Cana]

All this not wanting illegal immigrants. So make them legal or at least give them yearly temporary work permits after which time they go back home until next year.

Please go and rethink these two sentences for a little bit, and then come back to this thread.

One result of getting tough on immigrants can be found in the state of Michigan. Seems that they cannot find enough people to milk and take care of cows in Michigan. Seems US citizens are not into milking cows or cleaning up after them for the price they are paying unless everyone would like to pay $10 for a gallon of milk.

Same goes for this one.

So what's the problem!!

People complain about illegals but certain industries need them. So make them legal. If you want it more clearly then I mean this

Temporary worker visas are for persons who want to enter the United States for employment lasting a fixed period of time, and are not considered permanent or indefinite. Each of these visas requires the prospective employer to first file a petition with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)

When it comes to the last statement what's the problem!! I am just showing an example. It seems with the tough stance on illegals immigrants, many low paying industries have decided to look for cheap labor in the US territories since in there own States they cannot find anyone willing to work under who knows what conditions and most likely no benefits for those low wages.

Are you now satisfied.

[Bombadil]

Even being a regular immigrant is somewhat of a pain - one needs a visa to work, but that also means one needs to work to maintain a visa. That can be restrictive in the decisions one makes, you're less free to quit, you have less support if you do and if you're laid off your decisions are that more stark.

[Neu Leonstein]

Even being a regular immigrant is somewhat of a pain - one needs a visa to work, but that also means one needs to work to maintain a visa. That can be restrictive in the decisions one makes, you're less free to quit, you have less support if you do and if you're laid off your decisions are that more stark.

Tell me about it. Me and my partner are about to spend more than A$10,000 just on paperwork so that she can come live with me permanently and work and all that. And the amount of information they want about your private life to make a judgement on whether or not they deem your relationship genuine would make anyone with even the slightest hint of a civil liberties bent shudder.

[NERVUN]

Even being a regular immigrant is somewhat of a pain - one needs a visa to work, but that also means one needs to work to maintain a visa. That can be restrictive in the decisions one makes, you're less free to quit, you have less support if you do and if you're laid off your decisions are that more stark.

Tell me about it. Me and my partner are about to spend more than A$10,000 just on paperwork so that she can come live with me permanently and work and all that. And the amount of information they want about your private life to make a judgement on whether or not they deem your relationship genuine would make anyone with even the slightest hint of a civil liberties bent shudder.

You have my sympathies. I went through the same circus when going from instructor to spouse visa. They wanted photos, letters, etc.

Oddly enough, the paperwork wasn't nearly so invasive going from spouse to permanent resident.

[Bombadil]

Even being a regular immigrant is somewhat of a pain - one needs a visa to work, but that also means one needs to work to maintain a visa. That can be restrictive in the decisions one makes, you're less free to quit, you have less support if you do and if you're laid off your decisions are that more stark.

Tell me about it. Me and my partner are about to spend more than A$10,000 just on paperwork so that she can come live with me permanently and work and all that. And the amount of information they want about your private life to make a judgement on whether or not they deem your relationship genuine would make anyone with even the slightest hint of a civil liberties bent shudder.

Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago of someone who was technically an illegal immigrant in Australia who had married a single mother with children, essentially been a good husband who paid his taxes yet was discovered some 10-15 years later and threatened with being thrown out.

There's been a spate of cases recently in the UK where this is the same, people who've lived there for some 30-40 years on a review, and finally in comes the review to kick them out despite having built a life.

I think people really need to consider the different types of immigrants before blanket judging. Truth is sometimes it's hard to move somewhere even legally. It can be very hard to stay somewhere illegally but they're looking for a better life so it's worth it.

And it's hard to drop the comfort of cultural memories in a new environment.

The language around immigration is often so at the edge of definitions, good or bad without the millions of stories in between. And frankly the strict and lengthy legislation often in place creates the path of illegal entry because it can be easier just to get there first and ask questions later.

[Pamat]

Dang. This thread is getting farther then I though. I though it would have died but no, it keeps getting better!

[Likar]

Bump

[Likar]

I did melting pot model

[Mushet]

Either way, what's your point?

You know the answer to that question. But let's just say that, having grown up in Germany in the 1990s, the idea of an anti-immigration eastern European is amusing to me.

American who has lived in Australia for a year. Does that help?

It does, though obviously not as much as if it had been to somewhere that's genuinely different.

Limiting the discussion to an extremely small and likely biased demographic doesn't seem intuitive to a good debate/discussion at all.

Well, first of all, ask yourself why that demographic would be biased.

But aside from that, why should actual experience not be a prerequisite for having one's opinion be taken seriously? Nobody will take my opinion about period pains seriously, because as a biological male I haven't had any and won't have any. Similarly, I don't see the value of someone in some 95%-white medium-sized town in the American midwest making pronouncements on how people of different cultures can't live together.

Well I've only lived in immigrant heavy neighborhoods, and most others I frequent are immigrant heavy too.

But I'm not an immigrant.

[Xadufell]

You know the answer to that question. But let's just say that, having grown up in Germany in the 1990s, the idea of an anti-immigration eastern European is amusing to me.


It does, though obviously not as much as if it had been to somewhere that's genuinely different.


Well, first of all, ask yourself why that demographic would be biased.

But aside from that, why should actual experience not be a prerequisite for having one's opinion be taken seriously? Nobody will take my opinion about period pains seriously, because as a biological male I haven't had any and won't have any. Similarly, I don't see the value of someone in some 95%-white medium-sized town in the American midwest making pronouncements on how people of different cultures can't live together.

Well I've only lived in immigrant heavy neighborhoods, and most others I frequent are immigrant heavy too.

But I'm not an immigrant.

Sweet dollar tea from McDonalds, I drink that. Supah-hot-fire, I spit dat.

But I'm not a rapper

[Aillyria]

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/
Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 13: (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 15: (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Good, they have 190 or so countries to choose from. So, they can go to Europe and take advantage of their save-all-the immigrants-at-the-expense-of-our-citizens policies

[Huntpublic]

Personally I'm not against immigration, I'm against Illegal immigration

[Kubumba Tribe]

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/
Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 13: (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 15: (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Good, they have 190 or so countries to choose from. So, they can go to Europe and take advantage of their save-all-the immigrants-at-the-expense-of-our-citizens policies

Europe's not doing anything at the expense of its own citizens.

[Ifreann]

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/
Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 13: (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 15: (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Good, they have 190 or so countries to choose from. So, they can go to Europe and take advantage of their save-all-the immigrants-at-the-expense-of-our-citizens policies

Foolish Eurotypes, helping people in need instead of just helping people with the right paperwork.

[Thermodolia]

Hello everyone! My first discussion so please mind that this will be cringed and bad. But hey might as well try...

Immigration and Migration are things humans have been doing since the dawn of humanity. First leaving Africa, then crawling into the North American grounds and then expanding world wide. Soon people started to think in there tribes and newly found coubtri “How can we keep the good in and bad guys out?”. So they made border control. Then there like “How much birder control?”. The left on politics be like “Let’s accept more people!” while the right be like “More regulation equals no bad guys!”. Back to 2018, everyone thinks different. Now it’s even more complicated with Immigration, because refugees, illegal immigrants and so much more!

Your opinion?

The idea that all of the left is anti-borders is hilarious, just like the idea that pro-borders is a entirely right wing idea