NationStates

Goverwal wrote:I have often thought, looking around, that the typical large town of forty thousand plus people has the capacity, at least in theory, to build a fairly competent military. In a typical town of this size, you are likely to find a builders' merchant, schools, etc.
In this scenario, countries as we know them have collapsed into a series of town and city states. This means that large towns, small cities, and some neighbourhoods within larger cities all have complete autonomy, and need to serve all of the needs of the populace, including security. Small towns (without the sorts of facilities mentioned above) and villages are usually under the control of the nearest large town. Your town has just declared war on another local town.
Using only the sorts of materials that are likely to be found at schools, builders' merchants etc., your town must build an army or face permanent destruction.
This is not a place to discuss small weapons (guns, bombs, etc.), for two reasons:
1) It's dangerous. If you share this information people could die. Do you want to have to take responsibility for such suffering. I will not, so if anyone tries to break this rule I will be visiting moderation
2) We're big picture people! We want to build nuclear missiles (I'll give this as an example later), tanks, etc.

I'll start: Nuclear missiles!

The easy part here is the warhead. Many schools have materials such as plutonium, uranium, etc. (I know, it's not weapons grade, but let's make that tiny allowance at least). The difficult part is the missile. In terms of fuel, many schools will have access to hydrogen peroxide, methane, hydrogen (though it may have to be produced on site). Petrol stations often sell various types of gas (especially methane and butane). I don't know enough about rocketry to be able to pick the most practical or effective option. This is where you come in, NSG. How do we get the rocket to go anywhere? How do we ensure it goes where we want it to go, using only the materials found in a typical town?
This is an exercise in chemistry and physics, applied to a fun(?) context, which I hope will increase interest in science in the community.

Grenartia wrote:1. No significant number of schools have any significant amount of uranium, much less plutonium. Much less weapons grade versions of them.
2. Most towns will not have access to refined petroleum products on their own, and those that do will not have access to crude oil to turn into refined products. And most won't have either one, and will have to depend on at least two other towns to get said refined petroleum. And even then, most of said refined petroleum will be used for the production, refinement, and transport of said petroleum, making its use in rocketry significantly wasteful (especially if you're wanting to loft a fucking nuke into the next town over). In reality, most towns will need at least several other towns' (think 4 digits) cooperation to manage to build and fuel a rocket of that kind of power. At that point, you don't have city-states warring with each other, you have small nations.


tl;dr: your scenario is impossible, economics is not on your side.

Goverwal wrote:

Grenartia wrote:1. No significant number of schools have any significant amount of uranium, much less plutonium. Much less weapons grade versions of them.
2. Most towns will not have access to refined petroleum products on their own, and those that do will not have access to crude oil to turn into refined products. And most won't have either one, and will have to depend on at least two other towns to get said refined petroleum. And even then, most of said refined petroleum will be used for the production, refinement, and transport of said petroleum, making its use in rocketry significantly wasteful (especially if you're wanting to loft a fucking nuke into the next town over). In reality, most towns will need at least several other towns' (think 4 digits) cooperation to manage to build and fuel a rocket of that kind of power. At that point, you don't have city-states warring with each other, you have small nations.


tl;dr: your scenario is impossible, economics is not on your side.

It's a flawed scenario, I admit. The idea is think about the theoretical science, making small allowances for impurities in the materials (as I mentioned in the OP regarding uranium. I would counter your point about the number of schools with uranium: I attend a state school with access to such materials. Nuclear radiation is on the curriculum so schools have these materials for demonstrations

On your other point: global trade is possible. You are only at war with one town/city; many other towns cities will be willing to trade with you. Japan manages to import oils so why can't we. Aside from this I should remind you that the focus of this is science, not economics.

In other news, I am wondering about the feasibility of something along the lines of a google maps-derived system to guide the missile. Any (polite) thoughts on this, or other suggestions on the issue?

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Give me some football gear and I can make you a legion worthy of Caesar.

Goverwal wrote:This is not a place to discuss small weapons (guns, bombs, etc.), for.. reasons:

..It's dangerous. If you share this information people could die. Do you want to have to take responsibility for such suffering. I will not, so if anyone tries to break this rule I will be visiting moderation..

I'll start: Nuclear missiles!

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Give me some football gear and I can make you a legion worthy of Caesar.

Goverwal wrote:

Grenartia wrote:1. No significant number of schools have any significant amount of uranium, much less plutonium. Much less weapons grade versions of them.
2. Most towns will not have access to refined petroleum products on their own, and those that do will not have access to crude oil to turn into refined products. And most won't have either one, and will have to depend on at least two other towns to get said refined petroleum. And even then, most of said refined petroleum will be used for the production, refinement, and transport of said petroleum, making its use in rocketry significantly wasteful (especially if you're wanting to loft a fucking nuke into the next town over). In reality, most towns will need at least several other towns' (think 4 digits) cooperation to manage to build and fuel a rocket of that kind of power. At that point, you don't have city-states warring with each other, you have small nations.


tl;dr: your scenario is impossible, economics is not on your side.

1. It's a flawed scenario, I admit. 2. The idea is think about the theoretical science, making small allowances for impurities in the materials (as I mentioned in the OP regarding uranium. 3. I would counter your point about the number of schools with uranium: I attend a state school with access to such materials. 4. Nuclear radiation is on the curriculum so schools have these materials for demonstrations
5. On your other point: global trade is possible. You are only at war with one town/city; many other towns cities will be willing to trade with you. 6. Japan manages to import oils so why can't we. 7. Aside from this I should remind you that the focus of this is science, not economics.

8. In other news, I am wondering about the feasibility of something along the lines of a google maps-derived system to guide the missile. Any (polite) thoughts on this, or other suggestions on the issue?

Goverwal wrote:Having established that nobody thinks much of nuclear missiles, how do we feel about more conventional missiles? The fuel and guidance systems in particular?

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Your militia will operate almost entirely off of small arms and technicals and such things. Maybe you can throw together some improvised mortars like the IRA used if you're desperate for some form of longish range capabilities.

The East Marches II wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Your militia will operate almost entirely off of small arms and technicals and such things. Maybe you can throw together some improvised mortars like the IRA used if you're desperate for some form of longish range capabilities.

>His town doesn't have the capacity to produce siege artillery

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

The East Marches II wrote:
>His town doesn't have the capacity to produce siege artillery

I mean, I could probably make it happen with a full town backing me, not sure how effective it would be tho

Goverwal wrote:Having established that nobody thinks much of nuclear missiles, how do we feel about more conventional missiles? The fuel and guidance systems in particular?

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Your militia will operate almost entirely off of small arms and technicals and such things. Maybe you can throw together some improvised mortars like the IRA used if you're desperate for some form of longish range capabilities.

The East Marches II wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Your militia will operate almost entirely off of small arms and technicals and such things. Maybe you can throw together some improvised mortars like the IRA used if you're desperate for some form of longish range capabilities.

>His town doesn't have the capacity to produce siege artillery

Four Truths wrote:

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Give me some football gear and I can make you a legion worthy of Caesar.

Degenerates like you belong on a cross.

Datlofff wrote:

The East Marches II wrote:
>His town doesn't have the capacity to produce siege artillery

Seige artillery is pointless, no modern cities have walls, this isn't Jericho. Just disguise some people, sneak them in, and then have them start a massive riot as you attack from the outside. This isn't that difficult as we all look similar, and speak the same language here in America. Unless of course you are trying to attack polish hill, in which case expect moi cavalry

Datlofff wrote:

The East Marches II wrote:
>His town doesn't have the capacity to produce siege artillery

Seige artillery is pointless, no modern cities have walls, this isn't Jericho. Just disguise some people, sneak them in, and then have them start a massive riot as you attack from the outside. This isn't that difficult as we all look similar, and speak the same language here in America. Unless of course you are trying to attack polish hill, in which case expect moi cavalry

Datlofff wrote:Given Im polish and cavalry is in my blood I would start a massive mongol like dragoon brigade and terrorize the mid west

Datlofff wrote:

The East Marches II wrote:
>His town doesn't have the capacity to produce siege artillery

Seige artillery is pointless, no modern cities have walls, this isn't Jericho. Just disguise some people, sneak them in, and then have them start a massive riot as you attack from the outside. This isn't that difficult as we all look similar, and speak the same language here in America. Unless of course you are trying to attack polish hill, in which case expect moi cavalry

Datlofff wrote:

Four Truths wrote:Degenerates like you belong on a cross.

Awe, True to Caesar

Datlofff wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Your militia will operate almost entirely off of small arms and technicals and such things. Maybe you can throw together some improvised mortars like the IRA used if you're desperate for some form of longish range capabilities.

A Pringles can and a rubber band proper against a rock doesn't make a mortar