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Phenia
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Founded: May 06, 2009
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Phenia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:36 pm

UnitedStatesOfAmerica- wrote:There are plenty of other examples of representations of nudity of youths.


I have a feeling that is as close to admitting you're wrong you're ever going to get.

]You have no proof that the figurines were not based on adolescents.


You have no proof that the figurines were not ancient artifacts left behind by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to deceive the world.

I don't need to prove that they weren't, you need to prove that they were. The burden of proof is on you when you make such assertions.

The fact is that the depiction of nude children is not a modern phenomenon.


I never said it was. Again a strawman.

Nor was porn just invented by Hugh Hefnar. It's been around for millenia.


Another strawman.

The only difference is that they didn't need real children to create those sculptures, figurines, or paintings. Just as no child is used in the creation of CG porn. Therefore, there are no victims.


The Cat-Tribe already trounced the notion that CG child porn is victimless pages back. Your moronic and failed digressions do not even address the issue of victimization. I am putting you on ignore since you're obviously a troll, and I've fed you enough.

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Triniteras
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:39 pm

Tiurabo wrote:Well, here's where I've got to disagree, mi amigo. Whereas I agree with the 'no victim, no crime' argument for the most part, real child pornography is pretty sick.

How will you know if it's real when everyone can put images in their mind onto film?

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UnitedStatesOfAmerica-
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby UnitedStatesOfAmerica- » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:44 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depictions_of_nudity

Some sculptures depict nude child figures. A particularly famous one is Manneken Pis in Brussels showing a nude young boy urinating into the fountain below. Jeune nymphe descendant dans l'eau (1824) by Georges Jacquot shows a seated nude prepubescent girl.


With fanatical interpretations of history such as yours, we get stuff like this:

There have been incidents in which snapshots taken by parents of their infant or toddler children bathing or otherwise naked were destroyed or turned over to law enforcement as child pornography.[2]


TCT never addressed the flaw in his argument that anything that depicts any nude person doing something can be used to persuade any one, including children, to engage in such activity. If the reasoning is to protect children from having their inhibitions removed, then all porn would be banned, not just CG child porn.
In fact, it is most likely that child molestors use regular porn to lure their victims because it is easier to get and is perfectly legal to possess.
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Tiurabo
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Tiurabo » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:47 pm

Ooh, that's a good one... I suppose there'd probably be a bit of a fuzz on it. Thoughts are incredibly frenetic, or at least most people I know are, so I think you'd be able to tell. Of course, with a really good editor, and once the technology progresses... Still that's not really on topic, since apparently the discussion is on straw-- I mean, victimization.

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Triniteras
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:50 pm

Tiurabo wrote:Ooh, that's a good one... I suppose there'd probably be a bit of a fuzz on it. Thoughts are incredibly frenetic, or at least most people I know are, so I think you'd be able to tell. Of course, with a really good editor, and once the technology progresses... Still that's not really on topic, since apparently the discussion is on straw-- I mean, victimization.

It is not off topic, it is the development of the topic.

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L3 Communications
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Founded: Jun 21, 2009
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby L3 Communications » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:50 pm

Tiurabo wrote:Ooh, that's a good one... I suppose there'd probably be a bit of a fuzz on it. Thoughts are incredibly frenetic, or at least most people I know are, so I think you'd be able to tell. Of course, with a really good editor, and once the technology progresses... Still that's not really on topic, since apparently the discussion is on straw-- I mean, victimization.


Ooooh, snap!
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Lyras wrote:Thirdly, the inclusion of multiple penetration aids (such as flares, chaff, false-target balloons and lubricant)...

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Triniteras
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:51 pm

L3 Communications wrote:Ooooh, snap!

Are you going to take that shit, Tiurabo?

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Tiurabo
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Tiurabo » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:54 pm

Uh... yeah, I am. Not that it really matters. On topic, guys. Please.

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Triniteras
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:01 pm

Okay, I got one. Everything is a picture. What does it matter if it's on film or in your mind, or transferred from the picture in your mind onto paper?
What will you do when we have the technology transfer the pictures in our minds onto film?

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Cameroi
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Cameroi » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:28 pm

adulthood begins at 21 or 18. childhood ends at 11.
the only thing wrong with porn is that most of it is rather cleched
and rediculous amounts of money are frequently involved.
the latter of course is an even bigger problem at the supply side
then for the consumer, because it motivates 'shortcuts' that
might be considered abusive.

i don't support unhappiness making, but the thing is, the way i see it,
its the money thing that's the only real reason there's any problems with it.

i mean the only real reason that motivates whatever problems there might actually be.

and of course the cultural view of eros as being somehow inheierently negative,
which i absolutely see as the real root of emotional conflicts and resaulting mental
difficulties that come out of them.
truth isn't what i say. isn't what you say. isn't what anybody says. truth is what is there, when no one is saying anything.

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Triniteras
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:31 pm

Cameroi wrote:and of course the cultural view of eros as being somehow inheierently negative,
which i absolutely see as the real root of emotional conflicts and resaulting mental
difficulties that come out of them.

I wonder how many other people are capable of containing such a notion?

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L3 Communications
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby L3 Communications » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:40 pm

Cameroi wrote:adulthood begins at 21 or 18. childhood ends at 11.


Biologically, childhood ends at around 12-13; adulthood begins around 15-16. Depending on when puberty begins and ends, there are always outliers but that is the average-ish.
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New Nicksyllvania wrote:WA is jew infested tyranny that does not understand freedom and 0% taxation

Lyras wrote:Thirdly, the inclusion of multiple penetration aids (such as flares, chaff, false-target balloons and lubricant)...

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New New Anarchy
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Founded: Jun 26, 2009
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby New New Anarchy » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:37 pm

L3 Communications wrote:
Cameroi wrote:adulthood begins at 21 or 18. childhood ends at 11.


Biologically, childhood ends at around 12-13; adulthood begins around 15-16. Depending on when puberty begins and ends, there are always outliers but that is the average-ish.

Politics is never based on science, only gut!

Childhood ends when your sexy!
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JuNii
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Founded: Aug 22, 2004
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby JuNii » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:27 am

The Schro wrote:I noticed this being brought up in another thread and wanted to start an actual discussion about it.

Not real child porn, where children are forced to do degrading things; but things made through CGI, drawing, or even literature. In America at the moment, it's kind of a hot issue. Kind of. Do you think it should be illegal for some reason? Or are you not interested in stifling the creative interests of artists?

I think you can tell my stance well enough. /discuss!


Showing fictionally created images of murder is not actual murder.

Showing fictionally created images of rape is NOT rape.

Showing fictionally created images of Child Porn is not Child Porn.

that being said, I neither care nor am I attracted to any artistic rendering of child pornography and won't be sad to see it go.
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

Unscramble these words...1) PNEIS. 2)HTIELR 3) NGGERI 4) BUTTSXE
1) SPINE. 2) LITHER 3)GINGER 4)SUBTEXT

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Triniteras
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:13 am

JuNii wrote:Showing fictionally created images of murder is not actual murder.

In the future, there will be movies with characters played by AI's who eventually become psychologically indistinguishable from human beings. Does it then become murder? At what point was it no longer fiction?

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JuNii
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Founded: Aug 22, 2004
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby JuNii » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:35 am

Triniteras wrote:
JuNii wrote:Showing fictionally created images of murder is not actual murder.

In the future, there will be movies with characters played by AI's who eventually become psychologically indistinguishable from human beings. Does it then become murder? At what point was it no longer fiction?

what is Murder...

isn't it "the deliberate taking of a life"?

so... would characters who are 'AI's alive?

if so, then the line would be crossed.

if not then the line won't be crossed.

Look at movies nowdays.... death scenes are getting more and more realistic. should they be stopped?
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

Unscramble these words...1) PNEIS. 2)HTIELR 3) NGGERI 4) BUTTSXE
1) SPINE. 2) LITHER 3)GINGER 4)SUBTEXT

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Restromain
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Founded: Jun 28, 2009
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Restromain » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:40 am

This a retarded subject -_- Why would you bother making a thread?

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Triniteras
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:46 am

JuNii wrote:so... would characters who are 'AI's alive?

At what point is something alive?

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JuNii
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Founded: Aug 22, 2004
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby JuNii » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:50 am

Triniteras wrote:
JuNii wrote:so... would characters who are 'AI's alive?

At what point is something alive?

Good question. perhaps it should be researched, debated and studied properly.
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

Unscramble these words...1) PNEIS. 2)HTIELR 3) NGGERI 4) BUTTSXE
1) SPINE. 2) LITHER 3)GINGER 4)SUBTEXT

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Triniteras
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Founded: Jan 02, 2007
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:54 am

JuNii wrote:Good question. perhaps it should be researched, debated and studied properly.

Are you asking for help?

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JuNii
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Founded: Aug 22, 2004
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby JuNii » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:04 am

Triniteras wrote:
JuNii wrote:Good question. perhaps it should be researched, debated and studied properly.

Are you asking for help?

nope, I'm hinting that the discussion of whether computer AI's can be considered 'life' is not to be discussed in this thread. since this thread is about Computer Generated Images, Drawing and other such renditions being classified as Child Porn.
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

Unscramble these words...1) PNEIS. 2)HTIELR 3) NGGERI 4) BUTTSXE
1) SPINE. 2) LITHER 3)GINGER 4)SUBTEXT

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Triniteras
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Founded: Jan 02, 2007
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:09 am

JuNii wrote:nope, I'm hinting that the discussion of whether computer AI's can be considered 'life' is not to be discussed in this thread. since this thread is about Computer Generated Images, Drawing and other such renditions being classified as Child Porn.

Really? It seems to me that this is the exact development of the thread.
Afterall, CGI, drawings and other such renditions are simulation. AI is only more simulation. The aim remains the same, the only difference is the extent to which it has been taken.

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JuNii
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Founded: Aug 22, 2004
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby JuNii » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:18 am

Triniteras wrote:
JuNii wrote:nope, I'm hinting that the discussion of whether computer AI's can be considered 'life' is not to be discussed in this thread. since this thread is about Computer Generated Images, Drawing and other such renditions being classified as Child Porn.

Really? It seems to me that this is the exact development of the thread.
Afterall, CGI, drawings and other such renditions are simulation. AI is only more simulation. The aim remains the same, the only difference is the extent to which it has been taken.

and weither or not AI can be considered Alive is not the topic of discussion.
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

Unscramble these words...1) PNEIS. 2)HTIELR 3) NGGERI 4) BUTTSXE
1) SPINE. 2) LITHER 3)GINGER 4)SUBTEXT

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Triniteras
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Founded: Jan 02, 2007
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Triniteras » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:34 am

JuNii wrote:and weither or not AI can be considered Alive is not the topic of discussion.

You're missing the point. You say you have a problem with child porn but not with images of child porn. At what point does the image become a child?
Last edited by Triniteras on Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Domminus
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Founded: Jun 26, 2009
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Domminus » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:56 am

Triniteras wrote:
JuNii wrote:and weither or not AI can be considered Alive is not the topic of discussion.

You're missing the point. You say you have a problem with child porn but not with images of child porn. At what point does the image become a child?


When it's an actual child that images are taken of? You know, one that was born from a human woman, lives, and breathes? When the picture is taken of a juvenile homo sapien?

I find this whole thing disgusting. That being said... I can't see what the compelling interest is to keep people from drawing pictures.

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