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"Child Porn"

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The Schro
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"Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:28 am

I noticed this being brought up in another thread and wanted to start an actual discussion about it.

Not real child porn, where children are forced to do degrading things; but things made through CGI, drawing, or even literature. In America at the moment, it's kind of a hot issue. Kind of. Do you think it should be illegal for some reason? Or are you not interested in stifling the creative interests of artists?

I think you can tell my stance well enough. /discuss!

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Greed and Death
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:34 am

The thing with simulated Child porn.
Put a profile on the back for those drawn and have the profile claim they are 18.
Because the differences between a underdeveloped midget 18 year old and a 14 year old are slim to none, and no one wants to outlaw midget porn.
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The Schro
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 am

So artists should be forced to lie?

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Franberry
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Franberry » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:40 am

The Schro wrote:I noticed this being brought up in another thread and wanted to start an actual discussion about it.

Not real child porn, where children are forced to do degrading things; but things made through CGI, drawing, or even literature. In America at the moment, it's kind of a hot issue. Kind of. Do you think it should be illegal for some reason? Or are you not interested in stifling the creative interests of artists?

I think you can tell my stance well enough. /discuss!

This is basically "do we outlaw art/free expression?" then. Because yeah, its horrible and most people would like to see it get rid of, but if you ban this why not ban political parties?

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Greed and Death
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:40 am

The Schro wrote:So artists should be forced to lie?

Age of someone drawn is subjective anyways.
unless you say from the moment drawn, then any drawing not locked up for 18 years is child porn.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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The Schro
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:42 am

greed and death wrote:
The Schro wrote:So artists should be forced to lie?

Age of someone drawn is subjective anyways.
unless you say from the moment drawn, then any drawing not locked up for 18 years is child porn.


what

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UNIverseVERSE
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby UNIverseVERSE » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:44 am

I agree with Neil Gaiman, who defends it on artistic grounds very well in his blog.
Fnord.

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Greed and Death
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:45 am

The Schro wrote:
greed and death wrote:
The Schro wrote:So artists should be forced to lie?

Age of someone drawn is subjective anyways.
unless you say from the moment drawn, then any drawing not locked up for 18 years is child porn.


what

you draw a picture of a girl.
How old is the girl? the drawing has no age so it is about how old the girl appears.
How old does the girl appear ?
Is everyone who sees the drawing going to guess the same age ?

It is subjective as there will be no one opinion on how old the girl is.
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Franberry
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Franberry » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:53 am

I don't think they should be forced to lie as what they're doing is not wrong, they are just expressing themselves.
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BunnySaurus Bugsii
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby BunnySaurus Bugsii » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:56 am

Do we ban the explicit depiction of acts of murder?

We do not. Movies freely portray acts of murder. Video news displays actual acts of murder.

The only criterion for whether some depiction is "child porn" should be whether a child was involved in the making of the "porn."

If models used are of legal age, or no models at all are used and the depiction is entirely built from the imagination, there is no victim.

No victim. No crime.
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The Schro
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:57 am

you draw a picture of a girl.
How old is the girl? the drawing has no age so it is about how old the girl appears.
How old does the girl appear ?
Is everyone who sees the drawing going to guess the same age ?

It is subjective as there will be no one opinion on how old the girl is.


So you want a don't ask, don't tell policy?

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Greed and Death
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:01 am

The Schro wrote:
you draw a picture of a girl.
How old is the girl? the drawing has no age so it is about how old the girl appears.
How old does the girl appear ?
Is everyone who sees the drawing going to guess the same age ?

It is subjective as there will be no one opinion on how old the girl is.


So you want a don't ask, don't tell policy?

It is impossible to prove someone's intent to draw a minor given the nature of art.
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NERVUN
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby NERVUN » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:05 am

UNIverseVERSE wrote:I agree with Neil Gaiman, who defends it on artistic grounds very well in his blog.

Pretty much can't argue with Neil Gaiman.
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The Schro
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:08 am

greed and death wrote:
The Schro wrote:
you draw a picture of a girl.
How old is the girl? the drawing has no age so it is about how old the girl appears.
How old does the girl appear ?
Is everyone who sees the drawing going to guess the same age ?

It is subjective as there will be no one opinion on how old the girl is.


So you want a don't ask, don't tell policy?

It is impossible to prove someone's intent to draw a minor given the nature of art.


...Well, your argument is really irrelevant. I'm asking you what your opinion on laws against fictional characters who -are- below the age of consent would be, not your opinion on methods to get around being prosecuted.

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San Ivanna
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby San Ivanna » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:09 am

in literature and art, artists can use child porn to show how evil it is, or to show the complexity of emotions between a child and an adult .... or two children ... often it isnt to stimulate the audience like porn

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Greed and Death
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:12 am

The Schro wrote:
greed and death wrote:
The Schro wrote:
So you want a don't ask, don't tell policy?

It is impossible to prove someone's intent to draw a minor given the nature of art.


...Well, your argument is really irrelevant. I'm asking you what your opinion on laws against fictional characters who -are- below the age of consent would be, not your opinion on methods to get around being prosecuted.

It is not so much get around as the law becomes nearly unenforceable.
Unenforceable laws are impractical and impractical laws should be repealed or amended.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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The Schro
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Founded: Jun 18, 2009
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:30 am

San Ivanna wrote:in literature and art, artists can use child porn to show how evil it is, or to show the complexity of emotions between a child and an adult .... or two children ... often it isnt to stimulate the audience like porn


But it's not ok if it is used to stimulate the audience?
Why not?

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The Schro
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:31 am

greed and death wrote:It is not so much get around as the law becomes nearly unenforceable.
Unenforceable laws are impractical and impractical laws should be repealed or amended.


And what if the artist specifically states that the character/s drawn are below the age of consent?

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Molested Sock
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Molested Sock » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:37 am

Obviously the baby jesus is childporn.
100% 80% of the time.

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Ifreann
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:37 am

Of course, realistic but fake child porn can be a cover for real child porn.
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The Schro
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:39 am

Ifreann wrote:Of course, realistic but fake child porn can be a cover for real child porn.


So could a fucking Newsweek magazine.
Last edited by The Schro on Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:40 am

The Schro wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Of course, realistic but fake child porn can be a cover for real child porn.


So could a fucking Newsweek magazine.

Newsweek features child porn? And they haven't all been arrested?
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Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
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Molested Sock
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby Molested Sock » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:41 am

Ifreann wrote:Of course, realistic but fake child porn can be a cover for real child porn.

Like Davinci and the true story behind his code, it's a paint by numbers of kiddy porn.
100% 80% of the time.

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The Schro
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby The Schro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:42 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Schro wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Of course, realistic but fake child porn can be a cover for real child porn.


So could a fucking Newsweek magazine.

Newsweek features child porn? And they haven't all been arrested?


They don't now, but they could!!11!

clearly we must place charges

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UnitedStatesOfAmerica-
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Re: "Child Porn"

Postby UnitedStatesOfAmerica- » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:42 am

The Schro wrote:I noticed this being brought up in another thread and wanted to start an actual discussion about it.

Not real child porn, where children are forced to do degrading things; but things made through CGI, drawing, or even literature. In America at the moment, it's kind of a hot issue. Kind of. Do you think it should be illegal for some reason? Or are you not interested in stifling the creative interests of artists?

I think you can tell my stance well enough. /discuss!

The reason drawings, CGI, and literary fiction are banned is because of religious wackjobs. The same people who want to ban Harry Potter books.
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