Gun Control III - the Gunnening

[The Chuck]

Also the fact that they've got more shit in the brush then Montana... I've got friends up there who carry large caliber rifles to school as a bear deterrent.

Damn. Yeah, the isolation doesn’t help.

Also Kowani, was there something you wanted to discuss/debate with me? I saw earlier you said you'd get to me in a minute lol

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Be more like South Carolina.

Don't be like Florida. We get enough headlines of wives killing their husbands with taxidermied squirrels as it is.


Divining the tea-leaves aside... it doesn't explain Alabama at all.

New Mexico we can understand, the large presence of Native Americans puts extra weight on the scales. Alabama though. Hmm. Yeah, I have no clue.

Alabama is the best state.

[Licana]

Yeah, the spacing on that graph is kind of off, but checking the per-country statistics from other sources shows that Spain is probably not one of the visible larger bars. It still shows that, internationally, there's no strong correlation between firearms ownership and murder rate. This is true within the US specifically, as well.

What I’m seeing from this second one is a trend. Obviously, there are outliers, such as Delaware having such a high rate (and Delaware doesn’t have a major urban are with a lot of crime, either, so I don’t know that much. What I am seeing, however, is that areas that are poorer tend to have higher murder rates, but not necessarily gun ownership, although areas with high poverty and high gun ownership seem to become extra violent. Look at Louisiana and Missouri. Maryland is explained through Baltimore, though.

To a degree, poverty rate and murder rate (and general crime) certainly has a statistical correlation, which is more than can be said for gun ownership and murder rate. Regardless, laying the safety (or lack thereof) in any given state solely to its prevalence (or lack thereof) of gun control measures is disingenuous.

As a note, West Virginia is much poorer on average than both of those states and has a significantly lower murder rate (actually lower than the national average). It also has a firearms ownership rate higher than both Missouri and Lousiana, too.

[Kowani]

Damn. Yeah, the isolation doesn’t help.

Also Kowani, was there something you wanted to discuss/debate with me? I saw earlier you said you'd get to me in a minute lol

Ostia, you’re right. My bad.

But. Essentially, my feelings come down to a theoretical and a practical. On a theoretical, disarm everyone. On a practical, because that’s simply impossible, make it harder for gangs to arm themselves, but before that, elimination of the material circumstances that make crime a necessity.

[Kowani]

What I’m seeing from this second one is a trend. Obviously, there are outliers, such as Delaware having such a high rate (and Delaware doesn’t have a major urban are with a lot of crime, either, so I don’t know that much. What I am seeing, however, is that areas that are poorer tend to have higher murder rates, but not necessarily gun ownership, although areas with high poverty and high gun ownership seem to become extra violent. Look at Louisiana and Missouri. Maryland is explained through Baltimore, though.

To a degree, poverty rate and murder rate (and general crime) certainly has a statistical correlation, which is more than can be said for gun ownership and murder rate. Regardless, laying the safety (or lack thereof) in any given state solely to its prevalence (or lack thereof) of gun control measures is disingenuous.

As a note, West Virginia is much poorer on average than both of those states and has a significantly lower murder rate (actually lower than the national average). It also has a firearms ownership rate higher than both Missouri and Lousiana, too.

West Virginia’s also sparse as fuck, homicides out of anger and dislike become much rarer.

New Mexico we can understand, the large presence of Native Americans puts extra weight on the scales. Alabama though. Hmm. Yeah, I have no clue.

Alabama is the best state.

If this is serious, it’s…really not.

[The Chuck]

Also Kowani, was there something you wanted to discuss/debate with me? I saw earlier you said you'd get to me in a minute lol

Ostia, you’re right. My bad.

But. Essentially, my feelings come down to a theoretical and a practical. On a theoretical, disarm everyone. On a practical, because that’s simply impossible, make it harder for gangs to arm themselves, but before that, elimination of the material circumstances that make crime a necessity.

I wish that was a possibility around these parts. Im grabbing a pinch to eat but ill give you a detailed response from my view on why disarming the gangs is neigh impossible

[Communist Zombie Horde]

If this is serious, it’s…really not.

Alabama first, the South second, America third and nobody else matters.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Ostia, you’re right. My bad.

But. Essentially, my feelings come down to a theoretical and a practical. On a theoretical, disarm everyone. On a practical, because that’s simply impossible, make it harder for gangs to arm themselves, but before that, elimination of the material circumstances that make crime a necessity.

I wish that was a possibility around these parts. Im grabbing a pinch to eat but ill give you a detailed response from my view on why disarming the gangs is neigh impossible

Short answer: they tend to get uppity-violent all in yo crib if you so much as try.

[Kowani]

If this is serious, it’s…really not.

Alabama first, the South second, America third and nobody else matters.

Alabama sucks to live in by almost any metric.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Alabama first, the South second, America third and nobody else matters.

Alabama sucks to live in by almost any metric.

But hey, you're half as likely to get shot than you would in Florida.

[Licana]

West Virginia’s also sparse as fuck, homicides out of anger and dislike become much rarer.

Yeah, someone touched on urbanization earlier, but I didn't see that while writing the post.

The point being is that focusing efforts on disarmament for the purposes of reducing crime (when crime rates are obviously a very multivariable function and something that gun ownership has little to no demonstratable statistical correlation toward) doesn't follow logically, which makes it reek of ulterior motive.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Alabama first, the South second, America third and nobody else matters.

Alabama sucks to live in by almost any metric.

How? I’m proud to be an Alabaman.

[Kowani]

West Virginia’s also sparse as fuck, homicides out of anger and dislike become much rarer.

Yeah, someone touched on urbanization earlier, but I didn't see that while writing the post.

The point being is that focusing efforts on disarmament for the purposes of reducing crime (when crime rates are obviously a very multivariable function and something that gun ownership has little to no demonstratable statistical correlation toward) doesn't follow logically, which makes it reek of ulterior motive.

Oh, that’s fair. Nuance is needed for things such as these.

Alabama sucks to live in by almost any metric.

How? I’m proud to be an Alabaman.

Median Household Income: 46th.
Poverty Rate: 6th
Highest Per Capita Death Penalty Rate
Income Taxes beneath the poverty line.
4th lowest graduation rate in America.
Life expectancy a full 3 years below the national average.

[The Chuck]

Kowani

Alright, so it looks like we see eye to eye but I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum as you are... lol. In my eyes, theoretically, we would arm everyone from 18+. Practically no, we can't do this due to mental instability, deep rooted contempt for others, etc.

As for criminals and gangs, I assume you know that for the longest time, Missouri was the meth capital of America? We still have an insane number of meth addicts unfortunately, especially in rural Missouri like around where my university is. Missouri no longer actually produces the majority of meth found in the US. That honor goes to the cartels south of the border who are able to make it in greater quantities and slip it across. The reason St. Louis is so damn bad with gang violence is due to the fact that we're smack dab in the middle of the US. We've become essentially a distribution point for every damn major drug player in/outside of the US. The weapons play into this now too. It's true that you can legally buy a firearm and do illicit things and have it end up in the hands of criminals... except it's also true that you can sneak weapons across the border/make your own that have less likelyhood of being traced to potential suspects up/down the chain of a criminal ring.

As for your dream of removing crime. Unfortunately, that will always be a dream. It's a beautiful dream but it will never become an actuality. People are at their hearts creatures of desire. The desire for power and wealth is a strong one and those involved in criminal operations usually see it as the easiest way to achieve these and other desires. Even once you achieve wealth, power, etc. you'll always want more so yeah...

---

Also... Shameless plug. My discord in my signature is geared towards gun discussion and firearms. Wherever you sit on the political spectrum, you're more than welcome to swing by and have a peek and talk with us!

Also, if I start veering off course, just holler to drag me back on point

[Kowani]

Kowani

Alright, so it looks like we see eye to eye but I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum as you are... lol.

Funny how that works, huh?

In my eyes, theoretically, we would arm everyone from 18+. Practically no, we can't do this due to mental instability, deep rooted contempt for others, etc.

Eh, that’s fair. Personally, I dislike the idea of a massively armed populace, but…

As for criminals and gangs, I assume you know that for the longest time, Missouri was the meth capital of America? We still have an insane number of meth addicts unfortunately, especially in rural Missouri like around where my university is. Missouri no longer actually produces the majority of meth found in the US. That honor goes to the cartels south of the border who are able to make it in greater quantities and slip it across.

Decriminalize, regulate,

subsidize.
The reason St. Louis is so damn bad with gang violence is due to the fact that we're smack dab in the middle of the US. We've become essentially a distribution point for every damn major drug player in/outside of the US. The weapons play into this now too. It's true that you can legally buy a firearm and do illicit things and have it end up in the hands of criminals... except it's also true that you can sneak weapons across the border/make your own that have less likelyhood of being traced to potential suspects up/down the chain of a criminal ring.

I don’t really have a solution for the homemade guns. As for the imported ones, hmm. I favor the carrot over the stick, so... Work with Mexico on cutting down the cartels and stabilizing the damn country.

As for your dream of removing crime. Unfortunately, that will always be a dream. It's a beautiful dream but it will never become an actuality. People are at their hearts creatures of desire. The desire for power and wealth is a strong one and those involved in criminal operations usually see it as the easiest way to achieve these and other desires. Even once you achieve wealth, power, etc. you'll always want more so yeah...

Eh. Of course it can never be eliminated in its entirety. However, once you’ve achieved a certain level of success, then you have something to lose, and violent crime becomes much less appealing. The state can return stolen money, but dead bodies cannot be returned to life.

---

Also... Shameless plug. My discord in my signature is geared towards gun discussion and firearms. Wherever you sit on the political spectrum, you're more than welcome to swing by and have a peek and talk with us!

Also, if I start veering off course, just holler to drag me back on point

I mean, I’ve never liked Discord, so there’s that. But thanks!

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Median Household Income: 46th.
Poverty Rate: 6th
Highest Per Capita Death Penalty Rate
Income Taxes beneath the poverty line.
4th lowest graduation rate in America.
Life expectancy a full 3 years below the national average.

You are a weak-a** liberal who probably doesn’t eat meat daily. Capital punishment is necessary and adjustment for cost of products and real estate is more accurate. Also you won’t be really poor or dead if you live right. Teachin’ responsibility, that’s what Alabama does,

[The Chuck]

Kowani,

Decriminalizing Methamphetamines isn't necessarily something you want to do... Although Missouri ain't in the lead for meth production anymore... we still get the fairly regular reports of trailer homes blowing up from people attempting to make meth. The other issue is how ornery/violent meth addicts are. We actually had a man two weeks ago who was outside our dorm with a woman threatening to kill her and I had to call the campus police. It's an unfortunate scenario but decriminalization of methamphetamine usage is not the golden ticket unfortunately.

[Kowani]

Median Household Income: 46th.
Poverty Rate: 6th
Highest Per Capita Death Penalty Rate
Income Taxes beneath the poverty line.
4th lowest graduation rate in America.
Life expectancy a full 3 years below the national average.

You are a weak-a** liberal who probably doesn’t eat meat daily.

What does that have to do with anything, exactly?

Capital punishment is necessary

and adjustment for cost of products and real estate is more accurate.

Would you like more stats about how crappy the economy is?

Also you won’t be really poor or dead if you live right.

Considering how many people die early and live poor, I don’t think that’s it.

Teachin’ responsibility, that’s what Alabama does,

Well…

Kowani,

Decriminalizing Methamphetamines isn't necessarily something you want to do... Although Missouri ain't in the lead for meth production anymore... we still get the fairly regular reports of trailer homes blowing up from people attempting to make meth. The other issue is how ornery/violent meth addicts are. We actually had a man two weeks ago who was outside our dorm with a woman threatening to kill her and I had to call the campus police. It's an unfortunate scenario but decriminalization of methamphetamine usage is not the golden ticket unfortunately.

It’s not so much for the addicts as it is stopping the black market and the cartels. With them out of the way, then actual solutions can happen.

[The Chuck]

You are a weak-a** liberal who probably doesn’t eat meat daily.

What does that have to do with anything, exactly?

Capital punishment is necessary

and adjustment for cost of products and real estate is more accurate.

Would you like more stats about how crappy the economy is?

Also you won’t be really poor or dead if you live right.

Considering how many people die early and live poor, I don’t think that’s it.

Teachin’ responsibility, that’s what Alabama does,

Well…

Kowani,

Decriminalizing Methamphetamines isn't necessarily something you want to do... Although Missouri ain't in the lead for meth production anymore... we still get the fairly regular reports of trailer homes blowing up from people attempting to make meth. The other issue is how ornery/violent meth addicts are. We actually had a man two weeks ago who was outside our dorm with a woman threatening to kill her and I had to call the campus police. It's an unfortunate scenario but decriminalization of methamphetamine usage is not the golden ticket unfortunately.

It’s not so much for the addicts as it is stopping the black market and the cartels. With them out of the way, then actual solutions can happen.

I wish that was true. Another major issue that is effecting the US is the opiod epidemic... and that is a whole shit show in its own right. With fentanyl and all the crap that exists, there isn't really a way to completely get rid of the drug trade.

[Kowani]

What does that have to do with anything, exactly?



Would you like more stats about how crappy the economy is?
Considering how many people die early and live poor, I don’t think that’s it.

Well…


It’s not so much for the addicts as it is stopping the black market and the cartels. With them out of the way, then actual solutions can happen.

I wish that was true. Another major issue that is effecting the US is the opiod epidemic... and that is a whole shit show in its own right. With fentanyl and all the crap that exists, there isn't really a way to completely get rid of the drug trade.

We’ve gotta hit the corporations as well. Stopping it completely’ll never happen, that’s unrealistic, but we can definitely cut down on it.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Me and boys (and some gals) have often wondered and at much discussion at length and making fun of their intelligence/knowlege during these alcohol fueled talks , if these parasitic anti gun groups/talking heads, anti gun backers and anti gun politicians got their way and were able to got every one of their boxes checked off, what would they have left to rail against? What would be the next thing that rubs their vaginas raw, pump actions? Lever actions? Revolvers? Single shots? Or maybe they would move on to evil assault bows/crossbows? Knives? Is their end game as a parasite to kill the host, which would kill them off as well?

It's also interesting in how, if a shooting doesn't fit a defined narrative the media and all the talking heads just move on to the next carnage to bathe and dance in.
Take this latest one in Colorado, seems one of the shitbricks didn't fit the media narrative and has been mostly ignored.

Nobody needs a quiver that can hold more than ten arrows!

Are we talking about .30 caliber quivers?

[The Chuck]

I wish that was true. Another major issue that is effecting the US is the opiod epidemic... and that is a whole shit show in its own right. With fentanyl and all the crap that exists, there isn't really a way to completely get rid of the drug trade.

We’ve gotta hit the corporations as well. Stopping it completely’ll never happen, that’s unrealistic, but we can definitely cut down on it.

It isn't actually only the corporations. An issue is the doctors over prescribing opiods for anything and everything. Hell, last year in H.S. I put a screw gun through my hand working on the set of a play and had to go to the hospital. While there, I got a couple stitches and the pain was moderate but the doctor prescribed me Oxycodone 30mg tablets. Thankfully my brother is a researcher and immediately told me not to get the prescription filled and gave me a couple NSAIDs to take instead. Even if the medical field reduces prescribing these prescriptions, to many people are hooked so it will keep the cycle rolling. People will continue to over-medicate even when given instructions and becoming addicted. As such, illicit trade of medicine/drugs will continue and criminal organizations will continue to exist which will result in weapons and arms falling into the wrong hands.

[Farnhamia]

Median Household Income: 46th.
Poverty Rate: 6th
Highest Per Capita Death Penalty Rate
Income Taxes beneath the poverty line.
4th lowest graduation rate in America.
Life expectancy a full 3 years below the national average.

You are a weak-a** liberal who probably doesn’t eat meat daily. Capital punishment is necessary and adjustment for cost of products and real estate is more accurate. Also you won’t be really poor or dead if you live right. Teachin’ responsibility, that’s what Alabama does,

Based on your record on other nations, you win a *** 3 day ban for flaming. *** Remember, this means all your nations, not just this one.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Nobody needs a quiver that can hold more than ten arrows!

Are we talking about .30 caliber quivers?

Nobody needs an assault bow!

#Uklolwut

[Kowani]

We’ve gotta hit the corporations as well. Stopping it completely’ll never happen, that’s unrealistic, but we can definitely cut down on it.

It isn't actually only the corporations. An issue is the doctors over prescribing opiods for anything and everything. Hell, last year in H.S. I put a screw gun through my hand working on the set of a play and had to go to the hospital. While there, I got a couple stitches and the pain was moderate but the doctor prescribed me Oxycodone 30mg tablets. Thankfully my brother is a researcher and immediately told me not to get the prescription filled and gave me a couple NSAIDs to take instead. Even if the medical field reduces prescribing these prescriptions, to many people are hooked so it will keep the cycle rolling. People will continue to over-medicate even when given instructions and becoming addicted. As such, illicit trade of medicine/drugs will continue and criminal organizations will continue to exist which will result in weapons and arms falling into the wrong hands.

It is an odd partnership between doctors and corporations. Case in Point

Now, as far as the stuff you said about those who are already hooked, I’m thinking of more rehabilitation programs.
Of course, one does have to deal with the crime syndicates somehow.