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Gun Control III - the Gunnening

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Gun Control n Stuff - Only 2 Options Pick Carefully

If my neighbors dog craps on my lawn I have a god-given right to respond with the use of force up to and including recreational nuclear warheads
500
51%
Guns are literally the embodiment of all evil ever created by mankind, and when the last gun is finally destroyed the entire world will be at peace
145
15%
I'm lame and choose not to use a poll with wild stereotypes about both sides because I'm lame
329
34%
 
Total votes : 974

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Len Hyet
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10700
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Gun Control III - the Gunnening

Postby Len Hyet » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Previously, on Gun Control.

Part I, Part II

Original Post & Thread by Conservative Morality:


Been gone from NSG recovering from a little accident (nothing major) so I thought I'd return to the forums with a true classic - gun control.

I speak on this issue as an American, and thus I necessarily refer back to the 2nd Amendment here. The 2nd Amendment is culturally important - practically, less so. In an age of effective nonlethal self-defense weapons, 'self-defense' rings somewhat hollow as a justification; in an age of the MIC, 'combat readiness' for the civilian population doubly so; and anyone who thinks that their militia is going to resist the tyranny of the Feds with small arms is loony enough that they probably shouldn't own any guns. One must remember that even in the American Revolutionary War it was not private firearms which provided the majority of the firepower of American forces; such firearm ownership was primarily the province of skirmishers and some irregulars.

I could care less, to be honest, about long guns. We aren't the Wild West. We aren't some wartorn third-world country. Even fully automatic long guns don't concern me too much. Our problems with firearms are overwhelmingly concerned with the tracking of individuals who misuse them, not so much the disarmament of individuals with firearms. We don't live in a country where militias and gangs can resist the force of the State without using the institutions of the State (judicial process, presumption of innocence, civil rights).

Registration and tracking of firearms is all-important, as is licensing for individuals. I'm not sure that there are many circumstances I would support a full ban on a person's right to own firearms, but restricting ownership of certain firearms for certain individuals is probably useful. Acquiring a license to own handguns in particular, I think, is a good idea. Criminal activity is overwhelmingly reliant on concealment of weaponry.

I do think a limitation on different 'classes' of weapons is useful - but the current definitions of 'assault' weapons are asinine and borderline useless. Restrictions on semiautomatic long guns should be based primarily on ease of concealment - 'tactical' attachments, bayonet lugs, that shit doesn't matter. Collapsing stocks and shortened barrels and extended magazine capacity is more important, and even then I don't believe in a complete ban on such things.

Private and government property, naturally, can restrict what comes onto their property. Your rights end where another's begin. If the city doesn't want your glock in the local social services department, leave it at home and quitcher bitchin'.

Silencers is a question I struggle with. Any policy on silencers has to be Federal, not piecemeal state-by-state, but... on one hand, the use of silencers to lessen hearing loss and damage is perfectly legitimate and silencers don't work like Hollywood 'plink plink' kind of bullshit. It turns a roar into a bark. It's not exactly a sneaky-beaky murder weapon. On the other hand, turning a roar into a bark is sometimes enough combined with background ambiance to conceal the firing of a gun in circumstances where a gun should not be fired, which is... problematic.

Open carry is an issue that I think should mostly be regulated by the individual states, with some exceptions. There is no fucking reason you need to open carry a fully automatic weapon in public, full stop. Keep that shit on private property. I'd prefer it if people didn't carry their AR-15 dick replacements into the local department stores with tactical webbing and camo from head to toe either, but I guess that's more a personal preference.

So? Agree? Disagree? Am I just rambling?
Last edited by Len Hyet on Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
=][= Founder, 1st NSG Irregulars. Our Militia is Well Regulated and Well Lubricated!

On a recently declared one-man campaign to elevate the discourse of you heathens.

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:00 pm

Image
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I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
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Sovaal
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:02 pm

Torrocca wrote:

I’ve got a pro-arms quote from a well known socialist, am I good?

Dirty centrist
Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Torrocca
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Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:03 pm

Sovaal wrote:
Torrocca wrote:

I’ve got a pro-arms quote from a well known socialist, am I good?


As long as you're cool with lefty-libertarians, yes. :^)
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Sovaal
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Posts: 13189
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:04 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Sovaal wrote:I’ve got a pro-arms quote from a well known socialist, am I good?


As long as you're cool with lefty-libertarians, yes. :^)

Anything’s better then authoritarians.

Dirty centrist
Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Telconi
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Posts: 21412
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:06 pm

Sovaal wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
As long as you're cool with lefty-libertarians, yes. :^)

Anything’s better then authoritarians.


Pretty much...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 12785
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:09 pm

Len Hyet wrote:Previously, on Gun Control.

Part I, Part II


Is this thread going to have a poll?
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38513
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:11 pm

I demand a poll.
Angry American who likes guns and trees
Islamophobia is a virtue
Australian gun control didn't work. A rebuttal to the "well regulated militia" argument.

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Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7808
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:11 pm

''The Gunnening'' really dude?
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:13 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I demand a poll.


Should the poll be like the other two, or should we have a completely new poll?

Chernoslavia wrote:''The Gunnening'' really guys?


A better name is possible.

If it is a reference to The Happening, then I would really prefer it if we didn't name our thread after a shitty movie.
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DISREGARD NS STATS
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Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
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Greater Redosia
Minister
 
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Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Greater Redosia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:56 pm

breathes in deeply That new thread smell of gunpowder
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Hammer Britannia
Senator
 
Posts: 4127
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Hammer Britannia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:57 pm

Torrocca wrote:

>Virgin/Chad
>Uses the wrong format

Didn't know Gulags made your IQ drop aswell.
The FN FAL fetishist, Bi Libertarian Pagan your mom warned you about
Buy my Chemical Weapons pls.
People ask "could", but nobody asks "should"
Click here for free cake.
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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:59 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:

>Virgin/Chad
>Uses the wrong format

Didn't know Gulags made your IQ drop aswell.


Doesn't have to use the right format to be factually correct :^)
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Hammer Britannia
Senator
 
Posts: 4127
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Hammer Britannia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:00 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:>Virgin/Chad
>Uses the wrong format

Didn't know Gulags made your IQ drop aswell.


Doesn't have to use the right format to be factually correct incorrect:^)

ftfy
The FN FAL fetishist, Bi Libertarian Pagan your mom warned you about
Buy my Chemical Weapons pls.
People ask "could", but nobody asks "should"
Click here for free cake.
Unironic Greek Pagan, thanks WRA | The Megali Idea didn't go far enough

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Torrocca
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Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:02 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Doesn't have to use the right format to be factually correct incorrect:^)

ftfy


False; Marx is more correct than the 2nd Amendment. :^)
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Hammer Britannia
Senator
 
Posts: 4127
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Hammer Britannia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:03 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:ftfy


False; Marx is more correct than the 2nd Amendment. :^)

Marx called the bourgeoisie the rich capitalist

Their literal translation is "City-person" or in English "Middle-Class"
Last edited by Hammer Britannia on Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The FN FAL fetishist, Bi Libertarian Pagan your mom warned you about
Buy my Chemical Weapons pls.
People ask "could", but nobody asks "should"
Click here for free cake.
Unironic Greek Pagan, thanks WRA | The Megali Idea didn't go far enough

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Greater Redosia
Minister
 
Posts: 3068
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Greater Redosia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:04 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:ftfy


False; Marx is more correct than the 2nd Amendment. :^)


Wait..if the second amendment came before Marx...what if Marx simply took that and put it in his own words....just without the whole well regulated militia part and simply was like Marx: lolz all workers and proletariat gets gunz. my tired mind works like a charm for sure.
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Tule
Senator
 
Posts: 3882
Founded: Jan 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Tule » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:05 pm

Here comes the boogeyman, this thread isn't christened until the first gun grabber shows his fangs:

Handguns and pump-action/semi-automatic centrefire rifles need to be restricted and licenses given on a strict need basis.

Bump stocks, trigger cranks and hellfire triggers should be restricted to the same extent as machine guns.
Formerly known as Bafuria.
NSMRC's friendly neighborhood luddite.

Radical moderate, conservative liberal, anarcho-statist.

...furthermore I consider that ISIL must be destroyed.

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:05 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
False; Marx is more correct than the 2nd Amendment. :^)

Marx called the bourgeoisie the rich capitalist

Their literal translation is "City-person" or in English "Middle-Class"


Marxist terms =/= dictionary terms friendo :^)

Pick up some Das Kapital sometime.

Greater Redosia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
False; Marx is more correct than the 2nd Amendment. :^)


Wait..if the second amendment came before Marx...what if Marx simply took that and put it in his own words....just without the whole well regulated militia part and simply was like Marx: lolz all workers and proletariat gets gunz. my tired mind works like a charm for sure.


The people are the militia, comrade. :^)
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:07 pm

Tule wrote:Here comes the boogeyman, this thread isn't christened until the first gun grabber shows his fangs:

Handguns and pump-action/semi-automatic centrefire rifles need to be restricted and licenses given on a strict need basis.

Bump stocks, trigger cranks and hellfire triggers should be restricted to the same extent as machine guns.


Negative; restricting weaponry doesn't resolve socioeconomic or mental health ailments and violence, among the various other issues that lead to violence.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

User avatar
Hammer Britannia
Senator
 
Posts: 4127
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Hammer Britannia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:07 pm

Torrocca wrote:Marxist terms =/= dictionary terms friendo :^)

So your saying Marx was too lazy/stupid to pick up a dictionary and instead resorted to pulling definitions out of his ass?
Last edited by Hammer Britannia on Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The FN FAL fetishist, Bi Libertarian Pagan your mom warned you about
Buy my Chemical Weapons pls.
People ask "could", but nobody asks "should"
Click here for free cake.
Unironic Greek Pagan, thanks WRA | The Megali Idea didn't go far enough

User avatar
Greater Redosia
Minister
 
Posts: 3068
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Greater Redosia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:07 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:Marx called the bourgeoisie the rich capitalist

Their literal translation is "City-person" or in English "Middle-Class"


Marxist terms =/= dictionary terms friendo :^)

Pick up some Das Kapital sometime.

Greater Redosia wrote:
Wait..if the second amendment came before Marx...what if Marx simply took that and put it in his own words....just without the whole well regulated militia part and simply was like Marx: lolz all workers and proletariat gets gunz. my tired mind works like a charm for sure.


The people are the militia, comrade. :^)


Indeed they are my friend, indeed we are....
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Newne Carriebean7 wrote:You will get greatness from me.

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User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38513
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:07 pm

Tule wrote:Here comes the boogeyman, this thread isn't christened until the first gun grabber shows his fangs:

Handguns and pump-action/semi-automatic centrefire rifles need to be restricted and licenses given on a strict need basis.

Bump stocks, trigger cranks and hellfire triggers should be restricted to the same extent as machine guns.


Tbqh I'd actually do this in a heartbeat if Hughes was removed.
Angry American who likes guns and trees
Islamophobia is a virtue
Australian gun control didn't work. A rebuttal to the "well regulated militia" argument.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:09 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Marxist terms =/= dictionary terms friendo :^)

So your saying Marx was too lazy/stupid to pick up a dictionary and instead resorted to pulling definitions out of his ass?


No, what I'm saying is Marx has very specific, very concise points going on that A) aren't suited for a thread on gun control and B) better explained in his works than by a random internet plebeian.

Greater Redosia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Marxist terms =/= dictionary terms friendo :^)

Pick up some Das Kapital sometime.



The people are the militia, comrade. :^)


Indeed they are my friend, indeed we are....


Destroy the system flippantly when comrade? :^)
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

User avatar
Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21412
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:15 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tule wrote:Here comes the boogeyman, this thread isn't christened until the first gun grabber shows his fangs:

Handguns and pump-action/semi-automatic centrefire rifles need to be restricted and licenses given on a strict need basis.

Bump stocks, trigger cranks and hellfire triggers should be restricted to the same extent as machine guns.


Tbqh I'd actually do this in a heartbeat if Hughes was removed.


Actual compromises aren't allowed. Only demands called compromises.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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