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Gun Control III - the Gunnening

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Gun Control n Stuff - Only 2 Options Pick Carefully

If my neighbors dog craps on my lawn I have a god-given right to respond with the use of force up to and including recreational nuclear warheads
498
51%
Guns are literally the embodiment of all evil ever created by mankind, and when the last gun is finally destroyed the entire world will be at peace
145
15%
I'm lame and choose not to use a poll with wild stereotypes about both sides because I'm lame
326
34%
 
Total votes : 969

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Albrenia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7936
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:07 pm

Valgora wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Everytime I have a gun control debate here it goes exactly like this:

>Some tool runs around shooting people

> I and other gun control advocates go "We need to do something to prevent this happening again!"

> People on the other side shut down any idea we come up with

> Nothing ends up happening, just a lot of noise that does nothing

> Repeat process ad infinitum


Actually it's more like:
Gun control advocates ignore any logical and rational idea that would help prevent mass shootings because it doesn't involve banning firearms or taking away people's rights.


:roll:

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Telconi
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Posts: 21289
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:09 pm

I'd like to point out, 75% of NSG posters polled wanna nuke dogs.

Tell me again how popular gun control is?
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:10 pm

Valgora wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Everytime I have a gun control debate here it goes exactly like this:

>Some tool runs around shooting people

> I and other gun control advocates go "We need to do something to prevent this happening again!"

> People on the other side shut down any idea we come up with

> Nothing ends up happening, just a lot of noise that does nothing

> Repeat process ad infinitum


Actually it's more like:
Gun control advocates ignore any logical and rational idea that would help prevent mass shootings because it doesn't involve banning firearms or taking away people's rights.


Liberals in a shellnut, comrade.

Hence the phrase, "scratch a Liberal, and a Fascist bleeds."
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:10 pm

Telconi wrote:I'd like to point out, 75% of NSG posters polled wanna nuke dogs.

Tell me again how popular gun control is?


Nonsense, it's the neighbor that gets nuked. We adopt the doggo.
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Albrenia
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Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:10 pm

Telconi wrote:I'd like to point out, 75% of NSG posters polled wanna nuke dogs.

Tell me again how popular gun control is?


I don't think a jokey poll on an internet forum is a great way to measure anything, to be fair. :lol:

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Tobleste
Minister
 
Posts: 2120
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Tobleste » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:11 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
This is why we need a new political party that addresses rightly the woes of the workers on both sides of the political spectrum!

Tbh I’d rather we switch to a non-partisan system instead, political parties almost always end up being garbage.


I think a two party system is always likely to end up being garbage. Each has a monopoly on one side of the issue so the centre is not that rewarding. If a third party was possible, one that included the likes of McHaskill, Lamb and McCain, there'd be a party defending abortion rights but with term limits and gun access but with background checks and certain limits and the other two would have to sharpen up.

On the subject of the Parkland students, I found this interesting: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pl ... f1e0ba750d
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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:11 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Telconi wrote:I'd like to point out, 75% of NSG posters polled wanna nuke dogs.

Tell me again how popular gun control is?


Nonsense, it's the neighbor that gets nuked. We adopt the doggo.


If it's a Chihuahua, I'm nuking it.
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Telconi
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Posts: 21289
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:13 pm

Valgora wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Nonsense, it's the neighbor that gets nuked. We adopt the doggo.


If it's a Chihuahua, I'm nuking it.


Double this.
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PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
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-Life
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The South Falls
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Posts: 10293
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:13 pm

Valgora wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Everytime I have a gun control debate here it goes exactly like this:

>Some tool runs around shooting people

> I and other gun control advocates go "We need to do something to prevent this happening again!"

> People on the other side shut down any idea we come up with

> Nothing ends up happening, just a lot of noise that does nothing

> Repeat process ad infinitum


Actually it's more like:
Gun control advocates ignore any logical and rational idea that would help prevent mass shootings because it doesn't involve banning firearms or taking away people's rights.

I wouldn't really say that. While arming teachers and other things to that effect would work if teachers were good at shooting, even police officers have been found to have 25% accuracy in live fire situations. Giving teachers more guns doesn't solve anything.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:13 pm

Albrenia wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Everytime I have a gun control debate here it goes exactly like this:

>Some tool runs around shooting people

> I and other gun control advocates go "We need to do something to prevent this happening again!"

> People on the other side shut down any idea we come up with

> Nothing ends up happening, just a lot of noise that does nothing

> Repeat process ad infinitum


Pretty much, just with both sides calling each other immoral, underhanded murderers of various stripes. Personally I think we should throw in the towel and see about trying to do as much as we can with non-gun control methods.


Nah, we just need to be smarter about selling the guns.

That's all I want, to not give guns to crazy people.
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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:13 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Manchin-Toomey 2013.

A ban on a central gun registry, including up to 15 years in prison for anyone attempting to centralise gun records. Expansion on interstate sales to include hand guns via licensed sellers. Military members able to buy guns in their home state as well as the state they're stationed in Liability shield to private sellers who sell to a person who passed a background check. Increased funding for the NICS. A reduction in waiting times before a seller can complete a transfer in the event the check with NICS is taking time. A commission to study the causes of gun violence including mental health, guns, school safety and portrayals of violence in the media.

All to require background checks on all sales at gun shows and over the internet.

Seems like quite a compromise to me....


Not nearly enough for UBC's if you ask me, I don't really gain anything from that. FOPA already bans non-NFA registries and pretty much the only other decent thing in there that interests me is the bit about military members but given how few people that impacts I'm not gonna take that in exchange for everyone else having to deal with a ton more hassle.


It wasn't a bill mandating UBCs. Just checks at gun shows and on internet sales. Transfers between friends and family are unaffected. Sticking an advert on the notice board at work or church? Not affected. Selling to a guy you met in the pub? Not affected.

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Northwest Slobovia
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Founded: Sep 16, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Northwest Slobovia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:14 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Stevens always was anti-gun and regularly ruled as such when he was on the court. This isn't news.


He was anti-gun, but presumably never went so far until now- as to want the 2nd amendment rights gone entirely.

Sort of. In District of Columbia v. Heller, he argued -- on originalist grounds -- that the Second Amendment didn't grant a specific individual right to possess guns. Given that he lost that specific battle, it's not too much of a stretch for him to say junk it.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 38447
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:14 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
Pretty much, just with both sides calling each other immoral, underhanded murderers of various stripes. Personally I think we should throw in the towel and see about trying to do as much as we can with non-gun control methods.


Nah, we just need to be smarter about selling the guns.

That's all I want, to not give guns to crazy people.


Given you count people who have other people cash their checks as crazy I don't think we should really take your advice on this topic.
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Albrenia
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Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:14 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
Pretty much, just with both sides calling each other immoral, underhanded murderers of various stripes. Personally I think we should throw in the towel and see about trying to do as much as we can with non-gun control methods.


Nah, we just need to be smarter about selling the guns.

That's all I want, to not give guns to crazy people.


Too much to ask, I fear. Some will take 'crazy' to mean 'anyone who wants to own guns', and others will take 'crazy' to only mean 'people who are currently shooting someone else'.

EDIT - Ninja'd by someone proving my point, it seems.
Last edited by Albrenia on Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Actually it's more like:
Gun control advocates ignore any logical and rational idea that would help prevent mass shootings because it doesn't involve banning firearms or taking away people's rights.

I wouldn't really say that. While arming teachers and other things to that effect would work if teachers were good at shooting, even police officers have been found to have 25% accuracy in live fire situations. Giving teachers more guns doesn't solve anything.


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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
Pretty much, just with both sides calling each other immoral, underhanded murderers of various stripes. Personally I think we should throw in the towel and see about trying to do as much as we can with non-gun control methods.


Nah, we just need to be smarter about selling the guns.

That's all I want, to not give guns to crazy people.

Define crazy people and how we stop selling guns to them. We already have a background check system in place, though it has some issues with proper data not being put into it and with law enforcement not using the tools at their disposal with regards to it. If you want universal back ground checks, make the system we have open to the public, work on making sure the proper data is reported, and have law enforcement use the tools at their disposal.
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:16 pm

Tobleste wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Tbh I’d rather we switch to a non-partisan system instead, political parties almost always end up being garbage.


I think a two party system is always likely to end up being garbage. Each has a monopoly on one side of the issue so the centre is not that rewarding. If a third party was possible, one that included the likes of McHaskill, Lamb and McCain, there'd be a party defending abortion rights but with term limits and gun access but with background checks and certain limits and the other two would have to sharpen up.

On the subject of the Parkland students, I found this interesting: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pl ... f1e0ba750d


I too enjoy friendly propoganda.
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PRO:
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ANTI:
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"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Nah, we just need to be smarter about selling the guns.

That's all I want, to not give guns to crazy people.


Given you count people who have other people cash their checks as crazy I don't think we should really take your advice on this topic.


But I don't.

But that bill was better then nothing.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Not nearly enough for UBC's if you ask me, I don't really gain anything from that. FOPA already bans non-NFA registries and pretty much the only other decent thing in there that interests me is the bit about military members but given how few people that impacts I'm not gonna take that in exchange for everyone else having to deal with a ton more hassle.


It wasn't a bill mandating UBCs. Just checks at gun shows and on internet sales. Transfers between friends and family are unaffected. Sticking an advert on the notice board at work or church? Not affected. Selling to a guy you met in the pub? Not affected.


Which is UBC's in everything but name. Given how the gun show "loophole" was a previous compromise it would only be a few years before the Dems started attacking the friends and family loophole and then we're left with nothing to show for it because we didn't gain really anything from Manchin-Toomey.
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The Black Forrest
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm

Valgora wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Everytime I have a gun control debate here it goes exactly like this:

>Some tool runs around shooting people

> I and other gun control advocates go "We need to do something to prevent this happening again!"

> People on the other side shut down any idea we come up with

> Nothing ends up happening, just a lot of noise that does nothing

> Repeat process ad infinitum


Actually it's more like:
Gun control advocates ignore any logical and rational idea that would help prevent mass shootings because it doesn't involve banning firearms or taking away people's rights.


How many gun control advocates have shot people?

How many gun advocates have shot people?
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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:18 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Not nearly enough for UBC's if you ask me, I don't really gain anything from that. FOPA already bans non-NFA registries and pretty much the only other decent thing in there that interests me is the bit about military members but given how few people that impacts I'm not gonna take that in exchange for everyone else having to deal with a ton more hassle.


It wasn't a bill mandating UBCs. Just checks at gun shows and on internet sales. Transfers between friends and family are unaffected. Sticking an advert on the notice board at work or church? Not affected. Selling to a guy you met in the pub? Not affected.

Most sales at a gun show already require a background check, as most gun show sellers are FFL's. Over the internet any sale that crosses state lines would immediately require a background check and have to go through an FFL.
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Len Hyet
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:18 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Given you count people who have other people cash their checks as crazy I don't think we should really take your advice on this topic.


But I don't.

But that bill was better then nothing.

I think that's where we disagree.

You see stripping people of their rights for almost no discernible effect as "better than nothing". We see it as far, far worse than nothing.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:18 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Given you count people who have other people cash their checks as crazy I don't think we should really take your advice on this topic.


But I don't.

But that bill was better then nothing.


No it really fucking wasn't, it was opposed by quite literally every civil rights group in the country.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:19 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Nah, we just need to be smarter about selling the guns.

That's all I want, to not give guns to crazy people.

Define crazy people and how we stop selling guns to them. We already have a background check system in place, though it has some issues with proper data not being put into it and with law enforcement not using the tools at their disposal with regards to it. If you want universal back ground checks, make the system we have open to the public, work on making sure the proper data is reported, and have law enforcement use the tools at their disposal.

People who have a severe mental illness that need medication for.
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Fartsniffage
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29948
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:20 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
It wasn't a bill mandating UBCs. Just checks at gun shows and on internet sales. Transfers between friends and family are unaffected. Sticking an advert on the notice board at work or church? Not affected. Selling to a guy you met in the pub? Not affected.

Most sales at a gun show already require a background check, as most gun show sellers are FFL's. Over the internet any sale that crosses state lines would immediately require a background check and have to go through an FFL.


So what you're saying is that the bill gave guns owners a bunch of stuff that they want for very little in return.

Why don't you support it then?

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