Uni of Exeter law students in racist WhatsApp msgs row

[Trumptonium]

The University of Exeter is investigating racist messages shared by law students in a private WhatsApp group after screenshots of 'vile and deplorable' comments were shared on Facebook.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-43462767
Hill Dickinson LLP law firm - where one of the students was due to start work - has confirmed it has revoked his offer of employment in light of the slurs.

Student Arsalan Motavali posted the messages on Facebook and the messages are being investigated by the university and its students union - the Exeter Guild. Last night, as the messages were shared to hundreds of thousands of people, Exeter University tweeted: 'we unreservedly condemn any act of racism'. It added: 'Incidents of this nature should not, and will not, be tolerated and we are committed to eradicating any form of discrimination or harassment, wherever it may appear.'

Revealing the messages on Facebook, Mr Motavali, said: 'I'm sure everyone has recently seen the incident of racism at Nottingham Trent University recently. This event along with various other factors have compelled me to finally expose the below screenshots of multiple students of the Law school who have repeatedly made racist and vile comments.

'With the help of others, I have launched a complaint to the Guild and University already (who are currently dealing with it), but due to the upcoming elections we believe it is necessary this is for public attention.

A spokesman for the University of Exeter said: 'The University of Exeter does not tolerate any form of racist, sexist or bigoted behaviour and is committed to eradicating any instances of discrimination and harassment that may arise.

'Following reports of allegations involving a small group of students, the University has launched a major investigation, in conjunction with the Students' Guild, and suspended the students while this takes place.

'The police have also been informed. While it would be inappropriate to comment further while investigations take place, full disciplinary action will be taken as appropriate.'

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Are these punishments appropriate, if any should be made? Do you think that universities or the police should encroach on private conversations of students?

[Trumptonium]

I have to say these messages are incredibly normie compared to what goes on in mine, lol.

I think this is part of the wider crackdown on laddish culture and it will only continue to backfire. I certainly have noticed a very large right-wing shift in young white men, there's some stats to back that up as well, not least US demographic exit polls since 2004. Each event like this only makes it worse, as there are now people genuinely losing work placements and job offers over what most people would consider normal statements, especially in the sort of workplaces that they have applied to.

This will just make it more prevalent, more coarse and more underground.

[Irona]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

[Bakery Hill]

I have to say these messages are incredibly normie compared to what goes on in mine, lol.

I think this is part of the wider crackdown on laddish culture and it will only continue to backfire. I certainly have noticed a very large right-wing shift in young white men, there's some stats to back that up as well, not least US demographic exit polls since 2004.

Young white men? To a degree but I'd be interested to see the data on it.

[Bombadil]

I have to say these messages are incredibly normie compared to what goes on in mine, lol.

I'll say this, not for the racism shown in these messages but.. if I get off a plane.. or wake up and see 34 messages on certain WhatsApp groups I make very sure I'm not in a public place when I read them.

I think this is part of the wider crackdown on laddish culture and it will only continue to backfire. I certainly have noticed a very large right-wing shift in young white men, there's some stats to back that up as well, not least US demographic exit polls since 2004. Each event like this only makes it worse, as there are now people genuinely losing work placements and job offers over what most people would consider normal statements, especially in the sort of workplaces that they have applied to.

People need to be smarter, don't email on company mail, don't contribute to groups where you don't know people, be very smart on how you interact online because it's all recorded. I don't condone hate groups, I find them appalling but I do indulge in some pretty tasteless humour. There was a story recently of a group email in a company rating the females in that company. Maybe it's funny on some level but some of the comments were.. and why on a company email chain.. how stupid is that? People need to wise up on posting comments on chat groups, emails or anything recordable.

There's humour, and there's nasty intent and there's where you post things.

This will just make it more prevalent, more coarse and more underground.

Maybe, and maybe it should be underground as opposed to being normalised.

[Petrolheadia]

The University of Exeter is investigating racist messages shared by law students in a private WhatsApp group after screenshots of 'vile and deplorable' comments were shared on Facebook.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-43462767
Hill Dickinson LLP law firm - where one of the students was due to start work - has confirmed it has revoked his offer of employment in light of the slurs.

Student Arsalan Motavali posted the messages on Facebook and the messages are being investigated by the university and its students union - the Exeter Guild. Last night, as the messages were shared to hundreds of thousands of people, Exeter University tweeted: 'we unreservedly condemn any act of racism'. It added: 'Incidents of this nature should not, and will not, be tolerated and we are committed to eradicating any form of discrimination or harassment, wherever it may appear.'

Revealing the messages on Facebook, Mr Motavali, said: 'I'm sure everyone has recently seen the incident of racism at Nottingham Trent University recently. This event along with various other factors have compelled me to finally expose the below screenshots of multiple students of the Law school who have repeatedly made racist and vile comments.

'With the help of others, I have launched a complaint to the Guild and University already (who are currently dealing with it), but due to the upcoming elections we believe it is necessary this is for public attention.

A spokesman for the University of Exeter said: 'The University of Exeter does not tolerate any form of racist, sexist or bigoted behaviour and is committed to eradicating any instances of discrimination and harassment that may arise.

'Following reports of allegations involving a small group of students, the University has launched a major investigation, in conjunction with the Students' Guild, and suspended the students while this takes place.

'The police have also been informed. While it would be inappropriate to comment further while investigations take place, full disciplinary action will be taken as appropriate.'

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Are these punishments appropriate, if any should be made? Do you think that universities or the police should encroach on private conversations of students?

If students are informed, I agree with the idea.

[Sovaal]

Private employer and private institution refusing business with person they find repulsive? Don’t see anything to terribly wrong.

[Ostroeuropa]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

What's racist about engaging with racist comedy in a private group?

Beyond that, I thought this couldn't be racism because something something institutions, or does that only work when it's aimed at white people?

Maybe, and maybe it should be underground as opposed to being normalised.

This isn't working and has failed numerous times by allowing the ideas to spread unopposed by actual criticism and engagement with them, right up until they hit critical mass and burst onto the scene.

[Vassenor]

If they're doing things that would associate the institution with this behaviour and it doesn't want to be, then yes it's right to punish them.

[Irona]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

What's racist about engaging with racist comedy in a private group?

Beyond that, I thought this couldn't be racism because something something institutions, or does that only work when it's aimed at white people?

I think you know my views don't align with that strawman

[Petrolheadia]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

What's racist about engaging with racist comedy in a private group?

Beyond that, I thought this couldn't be racism because something something institutions, or does that only work when it's aimed at white people?

Universities are free to set standards for students using their services - and this reqirement is rather savoir-vivre than censorship.

[Ostroeuropa]

What's racist about engaging with racist comedy in a private group?

Beyond that, I thought this couldn't be racism because something something institutions, or does that only work when it's aimed at white people?

I think you know my views don't align with that strawman

I genuinely don't/didn't know if you were one of the people who says sexism/racism against men/whites doesn't exist because institutions/prejudice+power etc.

[Trumptonium]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

Potentially throwing someone out of a university for saying "this nigga looks like he's bout to bang the most assists of 2018" is not a proportionate response.

How many black students have been removed for using those terms? Perhaps they need an investigation into the rapping society.

I have to say these messages are incredibly normie compared to what goes on in mine, lol.

I think this is part of the wider crackdown on laddish culture and it will only continue to backfire. I certainly have noticed a very large right-wing shift in young white men, there's some stats to back that up as well, not least US demographic exit polls since 2004.

Young white men? To a degree but I'd be interested to see the data on it.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=436943&p=33597708&hilit=white+men+college+18+24#p33597708

Although deserting the Dems faster than joining the GOP, point is still there.

unfortunately US polling data is incredibly primitive compared to the UK and they don't release the associated PDF's
nevertheless "White men with a college degree voted Trump by 53% to 39%", though I'd like to see an age breakdown as well

[Petrolheadia]

I think you know my views don't align with that strawman

I genuinely don't/didn't know if you were one of the people who says sexism/racism against men/whites doesn't exist because institutions/prejudice+power etc.

I hwve a cool idea - not making assumptions at all.

[Bombadil]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

Potentially throwing someone out of a university for saying "this nigga looks like he's bout to bang the most assists of 2018" is not a proportionate response.

It is, it entirely is..

[Ostroeuropa]

What's racist about engaging with racist comedy in a private group?

Beyond that, I thought this couldn't be racism because something something institutions, or does that only work when it's aimed at white people?

Universities are free to set standards for students using their services - and this reqirement is rather savoir-vivre than censorship.

Sans a victim, I see no issue, and disagree with the universities decision.

[Trumptonium]

Potentially throwing someone out of a university for saying "this nigga looks like he's bout to bang the most assists of 2018" is not a proportionate response.

It is, it entirely is..

On what grounds precisely?

[Petrolheadia]

Universities are free to set standards for students using their services - and this reqirement is rather savoir-vivre than censorship.

Sans a victim, I see no issue, and disagree with the universities decision.

Not following proper etiquette also is no victim, but still leaves a bad taste about one.

It is, it entirely is..

On what grounds precisely?

Use of demeaning language towards other races, reflecting a deeper problem?

[Irona]

It is, it entirely is..

On what grounds precisely?

It's proof that they're racist.

[Bakery Hill]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

Potentially throwing someone out of a university for saying "this nigga looks like he's bout to bang the most assists of 2018" is not a proportionate response.

How many black students have been removed for using those terms? Perhaps they need an investigation into the rapping society.

Young white men? To a degree but I'd be interested to see the data on it.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=436943&p=33597708&hilit=white+men+college+18+24#p33597708

Although deserting the Dems faster than joining the GOP, point is still there.

unfortunately US polling data is incredibly primitive compared to the UK and they don't release the associated PDF's
nevertheless "White men with a college degree voted Trump by 53% to 39%", though I'd like to see an age breakdown as well

Do you have any data for the UK though?

[Trumptonium]

People need to be smarter, don't email on company mail, don't contribute to groups where you don't know people, be very smart on how you interact online because it's all recorded. I don't condone hate groups, I find them appalling but I do indulge in some pretty tasteless humour. There was a story recently of a group email in a company rating the females in that company. Maybe it's funny on some level but some of the comments were.. and why on a company email chain.. how stupid is that? People need to wise up on posting comments on chat groups, emails or anything recordable.

The point with that saga was that it was a tradition among company leavers to 'rate' their colleagues .. males rating females and females rating males. It went on for years. It was then revealed for the first time last week. It was a bit of harmless fun.

I bet a tenner that it was one of the ugly bugs who reported it to newspapers.

There's humour, and there's nasty intent and there's where you post things.

The point here is that there's an increasingly blurred line between humour and nasty intent.

The guy who said 'this nigga looks like he bout to bang the most assists of 2018' is a clear example of humour ... however his humour is leading him to losing job offers. It's his fault for being an idiot and trusting the wrong people and not being anonymous on the internet, but the fact remains there was no wrong intent.

This will just make it more prevalent, more coarse and more underground.

Maybe, and maybe it should be underground as opposed to being normalised.

It's already normalised though.

What you're doing by suggesting it be underground is just propagating actual hatred rather than humorous posts. Would you like your CV to be thrown in the bin by a disgruntled white recruiter if they see a wrong name? Because that's what will increasingly happen.

[Irona]

People need to be smarter, don't email on company mail, don't contribute to groups where you don't know people, be very smart on how you interact online because it's all recorded. I don't condone hate groups, I find them appalling but I do indulge in some pretty tasteless humour. There was a story recently of a group email in a company rating the females in that company. Maybe it's funny on some level but some of the comments were.. and why on a company email chain.. how stupid is that? People need to wise up on posting comments on chat groups, emails or anything recordable.

The point with that saga was that it was a tradition among company leavers to 'rate' their colleagues .. males rating females and females rating males. It went on for years. It was then revealed for the first time last week. It was a bit of harmless fun.

I bet a tenner that it was one of the ugly bugs who reported it to newspapers.

There's humour, and there's nasty intent and there's where you post things.

The point here is that there's an increasingly blurred line between humour and nasty intent.

The guy who said 'this nigga looks like he bout to bang the most assists of 2018' is a clear example of humour ... however his humour is leading him to losing job offers. It's his fault for being an idiot and trusting the wrong people and not being anonymous on the internet, but the fact remains there was no wrong intent.

Maybe, and maybe it should be underground as opposed to being normalised.

It's already normalised though.

What you're doing by suggesting it be underground is just propagating actual hatred rather than humorous posts. Would you like your CV to be thrown in the bin by a disgruntled white recruiter if they see a wrong name? Because that's what will increasingly happen.

So your argument is 'let me be racist, otherwise I will be even more racist'. I'm not convinced.

[Bombadil]

It is, it entirely is..

On what grounds precisely?

On the grounds that a university has a a student body, reputation and a brand to represent and writing this stuff is highly damaging beyond the fact that such sentiments and wording have no place in an institution of higher learning.

Take it either way, it can be an institution that needs to protect its business or a centre of learning that will not tolerate such language and sentiments.

Either way, it cannot be seen to condone this by passive inaction.

[Petrolheadia]

People need to be smarter, don't email on company mail, don't contribute to groups where you don't know people, be very smart on how you interact online because it's all recorded. I don't condone hate groups, I find them appalling but I do indulge in some pretty tasteless humour. There was a story recently of a group email in a company rating the females in that company. Maybe it's funny on some level but some of the comments were.. and why on a company email chain.. how stupid is that? People need to wise up on posting comments on chat groups, emails or anything recordable.

The point with that saga was that it was a tradition among company leavers to 'rate' their colleagues .. males rating females and females rating males. It went on for years. It was then revealed for the first time last week. It was a bit of harmless fun.

I bet a tenner that it was one of the ugly bugs who reported it to newspapers.

There's humour, and there's nasty intent and there's where you post things.

The point here is that there's an increasingly blurred line between humour and nasty intent.

The guy who said 'this nigga looks like he bout to bang the most assists of 2018' is a clear example of humour ... however his humour is leading him to losing job offers. It's his fault for being an idiot and trusting the wrong people and not being anonymous on the internet, but the fact remains there was no wrong intent.

Maybe, and maybe it should be underground as opposed to being normalised.

It's already normalised though.

What you're doing by suggesting it be underground is just propagating actual hatred rather than humorous posts. Would you like your CV to be thrown in the bin by a disgruntled white recruiter if they see a wrong name? Because that's what will increasingly happen.

Yes, I would like recruiters to be able to evaluate on the basis of job-seekers' behavior.

[Hirota]

Is it really surprising that institutions don't want racists working or studying with them? It's a perfectly legitimate response.

I'm absolutely convinced it is more a matter of not being perceived as having racists working or studying with them. I'm sure that any company of sufficient size (having worked in several) will have small private groups of co-workers of various demographics who share off-colour jokes between one another.

The problem with worrying about the optics of the matter is that it tends to lead to a loss of perspective.

...not tolerate such language and sentiments.

Burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate that they actually hold the opinions of what was said. I don't think you can honestly claim that they collectively hold these particular sentiments just because they joked about them.